Backstabbing

Piggy · Post by **Piggy** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:03 pm

My char was helping another char, that was attacked.
My char did slash for a minute or two at the back of the opponent.
Aparently without effect.

Should'nt there be a big penalty for defending, if a char stays with his back to an attacker?

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:30 pm

Apparently this value isn't enough.. happened to me as well.

However if you increase the value, mummies might become a MAJOR threat when they swarm, so perhaps allow it only for PvP?

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:33 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:However if you increase the value, mummies might become a MAJOR threat when they swarm...

What's wrong with that? I think it's fair, and just makes people more careful when dealing with a swarm of mummies. Fighting with multiple targets should be exponentially harder, in my opinion.

MacDoosh · Post by **MacDoosh** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:36 pm

abcfantasy wrote:
Hadrian_Abela wrote:However if you increase the value, mummies might become a MAJOR threat when they swarm...
What's wrong with that? I think it's fair, and just makes people more careful when dealing with a swarm of mummies. Fighting with multiple targets should be exponentially harder, in my opinion.

I think it should be based on logarithms. Just my opinion.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:29 pm

i don't know about logarytms, but i think if somebody is beating on anothers back, it should have more effekt, than if he attacks from the front.
and i think, if somebody is attacked from behind, he should turn around, or jump away. - if he does not want to be hurt badly.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:49 pm

There is a bonus for attacks from behind. But if a weapon cannot inflict much damage, attacks from behind are as useless as from the front.

I am not too deep into the fight system, but as far as I remember, the chance to land a critical hit is not affected from the direction one is attacking from. Is this what you want to see implemented?

Piggy · Post by **Piggy** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:53 pm

I don't know about tecnical details, but somehow the negligence to protect ones back, should be castigated in a significant way.

even the weakest dagger should be deadly, if wielded continuously from behind.

Beldir · Post by **Beldir** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:52 pm

But only daggers and no war-axes, etc... they should do as much damage as from the front.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:58 pm

But only daggers and no war-axes, etc... they should do as much damage as from the front.

why??

as in: why should an axe or sword do not more harm, if wielded against a back, compared to the sides and the front, where a shield or a weapon can be used for parrying?

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:08 pm

abcfantasy wrote:
Hadrian_Abela wrote:However if you increase the value, mummies might become a MAJOR threat when they swarm...
What's wrong with that?

because mummies are for newbies...

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:25 pm

abcfantasy wrote:Fighting with multiple targets should be exponentially harder, in my opinion.

realistic ideas like that is what made this game NO fun anymore

Richard Cypher · Post by **Richard Cypher** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:09 am

Salathe wrote:
abcfantasy wrote:Fighting with multiple targets should be exponentially harder, in my opinion.
realistic ideas like that is what made this game NO fun anymore

/signed

P.S. REALISM SUCKS!

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:38 am

P.P.S
Theres not alot of realism in the fighting system.

maryday · Post by **maryday** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:53 pm

[spam?]Should`t there be a penalty on PER for an attacker if an music instrument is played improperly from behind,
and the attacker has not selected the playing person as target?

Contrary, a well played music instrument should grant the attacker a WIL bonus, as long he has selected the playing person as target.[/spam?]

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:31 pm

But the enormous "annoyance value" of musical instruments has to be nerfed seriously. It's wayyyy overpowered.

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:42 pm

Salathe wrote:
abcfantasy wrote:Fighting with multiple targets should be exponentially harder, in my opinion.
realistic ideas like that is what made this game NO fun anymore

Oh, then remove all possible weaknesses and make a char able to fight equally in all directions. That's fun yes, no chance for tactics or backstabbing. They're close to reality so remove them.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:04 pm

abcfantasy wrote:
Salathe wrote:
abcfantasy wrote:Fighting with multiple targets should be exponentially harder, in my opinion.
realistic ideas like that is what made this game NO fun anymore
Oh, then remove all possible weaknesses and make a char able to fight equally in all directions. That's fun yes, no chance for tactics or backstabbing. They're close to reality so remove them.

-.-

You know what he means, don't act cocky.

Fighting backwards+being hit in the back are obvious things to put in, making it so if you're being attacked by several creatures you simply get owned just ruins it. The fighting system is fine, and I don't see why all these new stuff are suggested which seem to make it needlessly complicated and perhaps spoil the fun for people.

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:20 pm

The fighting system works fine. Nitram's done an excellent job with it.

Attacking to the back gives bonuses...fairly big ones.

I see no reason to change anything.

MacDoosh · Post by **MacDoosh** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:06 pm

Nalzaxx wrote:The fighting system works fine. Nitram's done an excellent job with it.

Attacking to the back gives bonuses...fairly big ones.

I see no reason to change anything.

*le signed*

maryday · Post by **maryday** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:07 am

A critical hit to the head with a lute from behind MUST inflict permanent WIL damage.

Otherwise i will leave

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:25 am

is that a promise?

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:48 am

It is poor RP to let yourself get hit in the back on purpose, weather proving how much stronger(which cocky players like to do), or not. Most people wear armor and the like in game. Attacking a skilled warrior from the back might make a fight harder for them, but you must assume that in a battle with no movement graphics that the characters are indeed moving, so a surrounded warrior would turn many times regardless if their graphic does or not.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:18 am

let's say, this is the situation:
chars X, Y, Z
X and Y face each other, hacking away.
Z comes from behind, fighting against Y

OOOOO
OOXOO
OOYOO
OOZOO
OOOOO

the least, one can expect from Y, is to step aside and make a half turn, to have both opponents diagonally in front of him

OOOOO
OOXOO
OYOOO
OOZOO
OOOOO

or would tha be too realistic?

Richard Cypher · Post by **Richard Cypher** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:22 am

Korm Kormsen wrote:let's say, this is the situation:
chars X, Y, Z
X and Y face each other, hacking away.
Z comes from behind, fighting against Y

OOOOO
OOXOO
OOYOO
OOZOO
OOOOO

the least, one can expect from Y, is to step aside and make a half turn, to have both opponents diagonally in front of him

OOOOO
OOXOO
OYOOO
OOZOO
OOOOO

or would tha be too realistic?

Woah woah woah...my brain hurts. Korm what is all this realism for? Way too much!

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:24 am

Richard Cypher wrote:
Korm Kormsen wrote:let's say, this is the situation:
chars X, Y, Z
X and Y face each other, hacking away.
Z comes from behind, fighting against Y

OOOOO
OOXOO
OOYOO
OOZOO
OOOOO

the least, one can expect from Y, is to step aside and make a half turn, to have both opponents diagonally in front of him

OOOOO
OOXOO
OYOOO
OOZOO
OOOOO

or would tha be too realistic?
Woah woah woah...my brain hurts. Korm what is all this realism for? Way too much!

I agree...what?...I don't get your point...sorry...

Noradur · Post by **Noradur** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:05 am

actually i was the one who got backstabbed..

well.. did you emoted much that you are hitting on my back?

anyway i am sorry i haven't reacted..

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:41 am

Actually Korm, Y should try to get Z or X behind one another, so that they have to move around eachother before attacking. So you'd have:

OOOOO
OOOOO
OYXZO
OOOOO
OOOOO

This way he fights only one at a time, and the two have to more accurately co-ordinate their movements as to not impede eachother. I have seen this done in 1 vs 2 fights to great effect by someone who knows what they are doing. Essentially using one person as a pivot point and keeping other person behind them with constant movement. I have seen this work especially well against people who don't know this tactic. They spread out to attempt a flank but in doing so just give a opportunity for the single to go for a kill on the man he's closest to resulting in a 1vs1.
So you end up with

OOOOO
OOOOO
OYXZO
OOOOO
OOOOO

OOOOO
OOZOO
OYXOO
OOOOO
OOOOO

OOOOO
OOZOO
OOXOO
OOYOO
OOOOO

ect.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:11 am

And when you now use a cow to protect your back, you are a real pro of pwning.

Anyway, I think all is said: Attacking from behind already grants massive boni. Killing opponents in one hit by backstabbing is nothing I want to see in a game that promotes interactions of characters. The fighting system as it is leaves enough time to write emotes and do tactical moves. If you reduce the system to "CTRL-click-dead", much is lost.

And yeah, realism sucks.

Richard Cypher · Post by **Richard Cypher** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:30 pm

P.S. you do not want a one hit backstab system or a super boost to it, because I would pwn all your characters just for fun

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:52 pm

what im saying about realistic i ideas is to the extent of how far it is put in. Back fighting and side fighting fine.... but it seems we already have huge bonuses for those. I much preferred the days one of the older systems, when a warrior could work so hard and get such good gear that when a huge monster attack broke out they could fight a bunch of mobs together, for a short amount of time.

But now all these realism ideas come and make everything more boring. Now we have to actually chop trees and make chainmail one chain at a time. I dont mind that crafting takes FOREVER in the end game part. But for really shitty armors that no one wants to buy, it seems absurd that someone should have to sit there for 20 mins making it. But for magic elven armor i dont mind taking half an hour to make.

And all this stuff together really kills the morale for many players. I know its a roleplaying game, but its also a game, players get satisfaction by accomplishing something in game and not have to deal with the real bullshit we deal with in real life!