Potion Toxicity

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:44 pm

I don't like it how everyone and their dog runs around with potions, also it makes PVP fights stupid when a person just runs away, finds a 'safe' place, chugs another potion down and returns to fighting.

This idea aims at reducing the amount of potions people drink (at one go).

This proposes, that when taking a potion, there is a chance for your body to react badly to it, due to the nature of the potion. This chance increases depending on the amount of potions you just took (increased concentration of toxins or the like).

Note that 'potion' means 'healing potion' or 'strong healing potion', not food potion (which has already been dealth with).

Potions Drunk In an Hour | % of reaction
1 | 0%
2 | 10%
3 | 20%
4 | 40%
5 | 80%
6 | 100%

If a person drinks a potion and has a reaction, s/he gets the message "You feel a sharp pain in your stomach, perhaps the magic of the potion has a side effect"

The player's constitution, dexterity and strength drop to 5.

This effect lasts for 15 IG minutes, spent without touching a potion (each potion drunk increases the time by another 15 minutes).

This aims at 'punishing' those who use too many healing potions. Really a game isn't fun when everyone is potion-weilding tanks, and you have to kill a person 5 times over because they have a bunch of potions.

Juliana D'cheyne · Post by **Juliana D'cheyne** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:07 am

This would not be fun when fighting reds or trying for the necro. I have not seen any char take a lot of potions except in these circumstances, or when a group is trying to fight one of the higher NPC's, which is almost impossible with the few players you have on USA time anyway.

I would like not to make the game harder to play and RP your char then it is. Adding negative reactions such as this can cause a lot more ghosting of chars. The only way I wouldn't mind this, is if there was not a skill loss when ghosted.

Lord Arcia · Post by **Lord Arcia** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:08 am

Yeah, this is a great idea. When one of my characters was a guard I beat some human twice without potions...but he used about 4 pots.

Taliss Kazzxs · Post by **Taliss Kazzxs** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:10 am

Deuce?

anyways I like the idea. I hate potions being used in combate, atleast fix them to were you have to wait 15 minutes before you can use another. Or have autoattack off for several minutes.

ogerawa · Post by **ogerawa** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:16 am

Just a reminder... as far as i know, when people fights NPCs they would drink potions as well. Dropping stats that low instantly, somehow i think would kill whoever drinks the potion and unluckily gets the reaction.

However much i don't like the idea, but i'm not totally against it. It's just that somehow, i think that you only thought about the consequent for chars who drink potions after PvP and ignored completely about chars who drinks potions after fight with NPCs (monsters). Please correct me, if you did think about Players to NPC as well.

Cause what i'm currently thinking is that, if this proposal scripted into the game then newbies would have a much much harder time to learn fighting with NPC. A char killed every NPCs in the area, s/he almost die then s/he drink a potion. The potion reacted, the only option is to run away. If there are no NPCs left, then s/he came out alive. But if there are more NPCs blocking the path (such as graveyard), well most chars would be dead even after drinking the potion. Or so i thought what might happened.

Lord Arcia · Post by **Lord Arcia** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:18 am

I don't kiss and tell.

Magical healing is painful. Imagine your muscles growing rapidly, bones resetting themselves after being broken.

I think it should hurt you no matter what, personally. 25% chance to take 1/2 of all attributes, except for constitution.

ogerawa · Post by **ogerawa** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:35 am

actually... given the effect of the potion, constitution going down is the less troublesome. But dex going down would mean you can't parry well and str goes down then you'll have to leave most of your loots.

Another reminder, this is a game please don't make it harder and harder then took away all the fun

. Or so i hope *crosses his fingers* xD

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:41 am

Diminishing effectivity of potions would be better.
Less lethal, frustrating and unfun.

Nr. - Healing efficiency
1st - 100%
2nd - 75%
3rd - 50%
4th - 25%
5th - 0%

Or something like that (it's late and I just made the numbers up). I wouldn't mind that.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:38 am

I read the first post and came up with exact same idea as Cromwell, except I think it should be a bit more extreme. 1 potion per 10 minutes (per each kind of potion ((mana,food, health)). This way mages must be tactical with mana, fighters must be tactical with health, and food potions aren't a quick fix for the rich crafter. (though I think production crafts should have shorter times per step anyway, like that of resource gathering crafts)

Richard Cypher · Post by **Richard Cypher** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:06 am

I want to point something out to you guys. Illarion is a great game yes, and I know you guys are trying to make it better. Yet it is just that a fantasy game. Of course being a little realistic does not hurt but with all these new things it is getting more and more frustrating and hard to do anything. It is meant to be enjoyable, get rich, slay mythical creatures, RP with other people. If it becomes to realistic no one will enjoy it. A lot of these new ideas are just causing more problems IG where new ideas now need to be made to balance things out. Eventually there will just be no one who wants to play anymore. As far as the potions go, they are meant to heal in a fight. The new preventative that was made is they are not instant healers. If you keep someone in ctrl attack with the red ring around them the potion just breaks. That is the measure taken to prevent people from healing. If they get so far away from you and break that ring then they should be able to use a potion. That precaution was made so when fighting npc's you can use potions if necessary but in PvP you cant use them because your character is targeted. If you try to they just break simple as that. Please stop trying to make it so hard to just enjoy the game.

Juliana D'cheyne · Post by **Juliana D'cheyne** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:31 am

Richard Cypher wrote: Please stop trying to make it so hard to just enjoy the game.

A wonderful post and couldn't have said it any better! Between this and the food, I am already thinking of retiring this char. Her background is not the background of the things being forced on her. She is not a crafter, doesn't kill pigs for food, leather etc. and has only RP'd and fought. She has lost steadily all her coins due to fear of fighters getting too much. It is very hard to just RP and fight when everyone else is crafting. The constant demand for her to supply poison and leather to smiths in order to get armor/weapons that she can afford affects some of the fun ig I used to have with her and would make me change the RP'd background story of who this char is. There are so many disadvantages now to playing this char, versus advantages to playing my others.

HolyKnight · Post by **HolyKnight** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:33 am

I agree with Richard on this one completely, but if this is implemented I would go with Crom's idea much sooner than the proposed plan. A potion that costs nearly a silver or more hurting you WTF! Once again if this is implemented the press falls upon the fighters, which right now unless you are using the very basic stuff is getting their arse kicked IG because they can barely survive. This just adds to the frustration so I ask that this idea be put on hold until there is a bit more balance. I dont think this is a good way to solve players taking potions during a PvP fight.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:02 am

Richard Cypher wrote:If you keep someone in ctrl attack with the red ring around them the potion just breaks. That is the measure taken to prevent people from healing. If they get so far away from you and break that ring then they should be able to use a potion. .

There is a thing called 'fighter lag'. Basically anyone using a 'slow' weapon (concussion weapons for example) have around 3 or so seconds of delay before they can move. If I am fighting you, and you decide to stop attacking and run, you will already have a 3 second 'start' on me, more then enough time to run and chug down a potion.

Yesterday I saw someone fighting someone else with potions. It went on the lines of 20 seconds fighting, then retreats, runs away cursing, drinks a potion, appears again, gets beaten up again, gets chased around, hides somewhere, drinks another potion ect...

I don't like the abuse of magic potions. If you want to fight somethign which is much harder then you, take a few friends, don't aim at almost dying more then 3 times...

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:13 am

That is more related to the problem with the combat system in general. I'm guessing that there is NO way my character could ever beat up Taliss in a fight. No way. That's not to say that my character was bad, but that's just the way the current system works. A 20% difference between my and his fighting skills doesn't mean a 30%/40%/60% larger chance to beat me, but rather a 99% assurance of victory (excluding heroic feats of luck, such as double crits to head or something.)

So we have these invulnerable tanks running around and killing everything at sight. I don't personally use pots in combat, but I can see why some try to even the odds. Not that there always are some people who'd use pots under any system to get sure victory.

pharse · Post by **pharse** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:07 pm

The diet system replaces the system where one could be poisoned by an apple, which was more or less only a temporal solution. Furthermore the new diet system promotes cooks which is necessary to balance crafts.

But this proposal... is just a precaution to make it harder for PGs and *bad* roleplayers. I think the new guide line of the staff is to award roleplayers instead of implementing sanctions for PGs.
At least I read that somewhere and it is my opinion aswell.

Of course this is a good idea, but then the whole fighting/monster training/XP gain system has to be balanced.

But let´s wait what the chiefs say.

xBaurusx · Post by **xBaurusx** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:45 pm

i dont like this idea =/ i mean think about it, potions are ment to be magical. usualy magical object dont wear out unless there power source is depleted. potions heal you magically... nothing else. i dont see how magic can slowly get worse the more you use it...unless you are starting to build up an immunity... that would sorta suck..

Executor · Post by **Executor** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:04 pm

Great proposal. Its really annoying with chars drinking health potions like water.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:40 pm

Think about it this way, your body can't afford to take so much magic on it. Think of it like mana, perhaps each body has a natural resistance to the magical side effects, but too much will wear your body out.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:57 am

Richard Cypher wrote:I want to point something out to you guys. Illarion is a great game yes, and I know you guys are trying to make it better. Yet it is just that a fantasy game. Of course being a little realistic does not hurt but with all these new things it is getting more and more frustrating and hard to do anything. It is meant to be enjoyable, get rich, slay mythical creatures, RP with other people. If it becomes to realistic no one will enjoy it. A lot of these new ideas are just causing more problems IG where new ideas now need to be made to balance things out. Eventually there will just be no one who wants to play anymore. As far as the potions go, they are meant to heal in a fight. The new preventative that was made is they are not instant healers. If you keep someone in ctrl attack with the red ring around them the potion just breaks. That is the measure taken to prevent people from healing. If they get so far away from you and break that ring then they should be able to use a potion. That precaution was made so when fighting npc's you can use potions if necessary but in PvP you cant use them because your character is targeted. If you try to they just break simple as that. Please stop trying to make it so hard to just enjoy the game.

I agree with you 100% Richard.

Taliss, I find your post odd. You blame Deuce fore what I have seen you do.

We already made a fix on potions from way back like 2 years ago when people started really debating the potion topic. Think it's bad now? It used to be who ever had more potions won... unless you killed people in 2-4 hits.

Baiyan Trading Company · Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:14 am

How about making it impossible to drink a healthpotion, before 5 minutes are gone after beeing aimed at by a playerchar?

Richard Cypher · Post by **Richard Cypher** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:01 am

Baiyan Trading Company wrote:How about making it impossible to drink a healthpotion, before 5 minutes are gone after beeing aimed at by a playerchar?

A better idea but the system is fine the way it is, plus I occasionally attack someone with me by accident in the heat of a battle if my computer lags or just not meaning to. Plus what if someone wants to have a duel then right after it gets attacked by a demon skeleton? Just leave the system the way it is. Nothing needs to be changed.