Death

[pharse]

Since my character is in an official position I have all the time a problem with criminals who doesn´t care about punishment and it is incredibly hard to get along with that.

Therefore I want to propose a system which features a permanent death i.e. perm bann of that char. (is this OK at all? *blinks to the staff*)

Before I get lost in details I just want to read some opinions. If it is worth I´ll work it out of course. So first some key points:

• One should have only a limited amount of "lives".
• newbie protection (may become redundant by implementing the newbie island)
• message on every login or ghosting to inform about remaining lives
• Ghosting and reviving is commonly seen as an act of the gods.
• so amount of lives can be raised by e.g. offering or sacrificing
• maybe only priests can do this (implementation in the priest magic system?)

Suggestions? Criticism? What do you think?

[abcfantasy]

Since my character is in an official position I have all the time a problem with criminals who doesn´t care about punishment and it is incredibly hard to get along with that.

I agree about that, and that something should be done.

But I don't really agree with this perma death. I still think that that should be wisely decided by the PO.

[Korm Kormsen]

i am strongly in favour of a perma death possibility.

allthough, the first thing, your proposal made me think, that this could fire in the wrong direction.
(an example: my char recently has been robbed twice within one hour.
so my char would have lost two lives out of ? lives... - that would not hinder the criminals)

when you make a propose, think, if the following should not be integrated:
a town-court could sentence a captured criminal to perma death. - to be revised by the gods (the staff) before being executed.

[Avalyon el'Hattarr]

This is indeed a fuly disscused subject. My opinion on this:
I agree, the "final" death needs to be implementated. How to do this RP-friendly? Simple, follow the example of a game (forgot the name) that used such a count of "lives" for chars, the only difference between what you say and what they did, is that the PO chars in question, had no possibility of finding out the remaining "lives" (which is wise), number that is not fixed, each char receiving a random one (between X and Y) upon creation.
Yes, the "lives" are drawn only upon PvP kill, not against NPCs (except some situations - quest and stuff), and yes it has the chance of being increased, but with much effort.
Like you said, the resurection should be seen as an act of divine grace, not something that you do everyday.

EDIT: @kormy - so, don't fight them if you don't wanna risk to die.. Just hand them the goods and let them be, if you're not sure that you can take them. It's not like that in the RL you'd attack a gun holding robber, just with your bare hands if you're not fully confident that you could do it =]

[Korm Kormsen]

abcfantasy and avalyon,

the main point in the upper post seems to be:

Since my character is in an official position I have all the time a problem with criminals who doesn´t care about punishment and it is incredibly hard to get along with that.

what are you two thinking, how the problem of towns, helpless to defend themselves against eternally returning criminals should be solved?

[Avalyon el'Hattarr]

Simple: a full working guard that can kill the robbers. Or imprison and judge, bla bla, execute

[Shenandrea]

that would only work when the town has a good working townguard, a prison and a judge....

......and i think only bane has a prison.......

[Korm Kormsen]

ah! and after being executed, they wait till there are less guards, and enter town again? - does that seem right to you?

[Shenandrea]

@ Korm, that's what happens in greenbriar at the moment..*sighs

[Korm Kormsen]

i know. and logically this problem is totally ignored by the interested parties...

[Karl]

Or make a new skill called 'drag'? Which only full blown guards can learn, from the magistrate/guard captain. That skill can then be removed once the character is demoted.
Right-click on a character, then drag. Wherever you move, he is forced to follow. You place him in jail, give him a pat on the shoulder, and gtfo.
If he logs out, you !gm, GM teleports his character in jail.

[Avalyon el'Hattarr]

ah! and after being executed, they wait till there are less guards, and enter town again? - does that seem right to you?

How can they enter in town if they are executed, aka took the final death? =]

@Shena: well, if a town wants protection then they should make their guard, or simply hire mercs to guard them.
And who's stopping you from building a prison in Briar?

[Taeryon Silverlight]

Giving characters permadead after x times of being clouded is nonsense. Crafters would last forever and warriors who start to train would get permadead before they have raised good skills.

[pharse]

Giving characters permadead after x times of being clouded is nonsense. Crafters would last forever and warriors who start to train would get permadead before they have raised good skills.

Isn´t it logical that being a crafter is much safer than being a fighter? And why would they die so quickly? Train wisely and everything is fine.

[Shenandrea]

@avalyon: briar has its own guard.

don't ask me who stops to build a prison in briar....*sighs*
((that would mean i would say something about internal things*gg*))

[Korm Kormsen]

avalyon,

How can they enter in town if they are executed, aka took the final death? =]

i think, that you by far are intelligent enough, to know, that i meant how it is now. (killed by a guard)

but, i will leave the thread. everybody knows the problems. and if somebody wants to change something for better, our crybabies fight for their "rights" as criminals.

there is no sence in repeating the same tune another time.

[Karl]

Don't rely on Ava's intelligence, Korm.

[Mr. Cromwell]

I would like you all to consider:

1. The possible adverse effects this has on the game athmosphere
2. To how great lenghts people will go to preserve their characters and prevent them from dying.
3. How much more time and effort the staff would have to use to keep the combat system balanced.
4. That this doesn't just concern the "whiny criminals" but also the grumpy jarls. I foresee a great whine and moaning on these forums if the bandits and lowlifes would get their act together and start assasinating and permakilling the officials for real under this system.

[Solan]

Für alle die nicht der englischen Sprache mächtig sind: es geht um den Perma-Tod eines Charakters!

Vorschläge:

+ gewisse Anzahl an Leben

+ Anfängerschutz

+ bei jedem Login oder "Geistumwandlung nach Tod" gibt's 'ne Nachricht, welche die verbleibenden Leben anzeigt

+ da das Wiederbeleben etwas Göttliches ist sollte man seine Leben durch Opfergabe wieder "aufladen" können

+ vielleicht sollten nur Priester dazu in der Lage sein (sollte in das Priester-System implementiert werden)

################################################

So...nun mal meine Meinung:

Ich bin auf jeden Fall für solch eine Einführung!

Warum?
Nun, wie so viele von euch wurde auch mein Charakter desöfteren überfallen und ich habe ehrlich gesagt die Nase voll davon, mich ständig von denselben Diebcharakteren ausrauben zu lassen. Zumal auch 2 englischsprachige Charaktere dabei waren...und ich noch nicht einmal richtig in der "neuen" Sprache reagieren kann (verstehen ja, aber nicht ordentlich sprechen bzw. schreiben)...also was tut man, um nicht als "BAD ROLEPLAYER" dazustehen? Riiichtig...man übergibt ihm die Münzen.

Einen Character als Dieb zu spielen hat derzeit keine Konsequenzen...und kommt mir nicht mit Town Guard und dergleichen. Was können die groß machen? Ins Gefängnis stecken? Sie aus der Stadt verbannen?...Toll! Die Überfälle sind dadurch auch nicht weniger geworden. Exekutieren ist auch nicht...nur im Rollenspiel-Modus, aber daran halten muss man sich als Verurteilter nicht.

Ich bin für die Einführung einer gewissen Anzahl an Leben: 5 wären denke ich genug.
Ich bin auch dafür, dass man durch Gebete oder Opfergaben Lebenspunkte wieder erlangen kann. Wie das Ablaufen soll...nun ja 'ne Kirche oder dergleichen gibt es hier ja nicht. Und ein Priester kann kein Leben wiedererwecken. Das werden wir wohl noch zu diskutieren haben, WENN denn von Seiten der Entwickler kein Veto kommt und wenn die Spieler damit einverstanden sind.


And for the people of the "new language":

I like this proposal...i want it...i support it...and so on

[HolyKnight]

@ Mr. Cromwell I agree very much on your points and quite frankly, there are already characters that play like that even with just the skill lose feature for being clouded.

I don't mind the idea of perma death if it is RPed not a punishment for fighters that get clouded too much. If it should be implimented I would like for the Town Guard/Magistrate to have the power to issue executions (perma death) with strict laws so POs don't abuse their power. The problem with the current "Bandits" I see ig is they are not good RPers they just want to be silly and go around attacking people without much RP (not including Lonor and some others who have been around) Perma Death would be nice for towns to get rid of n00bie bandits that have been around less then a year but they would just create a new character and do the same thing. Now if you had good RPers you could just get the town guard/magistrate to put in some severe penalties for criminals (e.g. cutting hands off, severe torture, beatings, starvation, SLAVERY, manual labor (town projects), and other various forms of unusual punishment) But agian you have to have RPers not I want to take advantage of the system and lack of town guard power these people rarely stick around anyway.

[Avalyon el'Hattarr]

Giving characters permadead after x times of being clouded is nonsense. Crafters would last forever and warriors who start to train would get permadead before they have raised good skills.

:/ Why would crafters get "much" death? sure, he's atacked by bandits, but why not give the bandits what they want and act as a crafter not a fighter?
And weak warriors should not get into fights and actually RP being weak, not play god damn Supermans. Problem solved.

[abcfantasy]

And weak warriors should not get into fights and actually RP being weak, not play god damn Supermans. Problem solved.

What falls under the category of weak warriors? Those with low skills?

What if you make a sort of temporary char, who will most probably get in many (hopefully-RPed fights) and you will be ready to perma kill him very soon.

Should you spend a big deal of time to train the char so that you get in a few fights and perma kill him then? I wouldn't bother making something like that if that is so.

EDIT: Example, a bloodthirsty orc

[Avalyon el'Hattarr]

No, I was mearly saying that if you don't want your char to die, then play him wise and safe, thinking that he could 'acctually' die, not get ressurected after being ran trough a blade, behaded, whatever.
My point is that curently, a BIG part of the chars take death as a joke, fact proven over and over again.

[Karl]

Behaded!

[Avalyon el'Hattarr]

*beheaded

Thank you for your constructive criticism Karl, not sure it worth spamming though.

[Karl]

np

[pharse]

I would appreciate a comment from a staff member if such a perm death feature is "allowed" to be implemented at all.

[Lennier]

To perma kill a char against the will of the player behind him is against the rules. I am against to change it in general.

But i would agree, without to have any good idea now, an implementation of more strict results and long time effects for being dead and a ghost.

But the big problem is to find a solution, which allows to play a dead char at the search for resuscitation without to lose the fun and without to make it to a farce for all other.

[Mr. Cromwell]

I don't think I like the idea. If you follow the line of thought that Avalyon is having, then it simply leads into more focus on skilling and powergaming than roleplaying.. and in this case the punishment for those who'd maybe prefer to "train" via #me's than clicks is pretty ultimate.

How do you define a weak character? One consideration is that strong characters already use the weaker ones as doormats, ignoring #me's at will.. partly I'd imagine that this is due to the fact that the players behind these strong characters know that there is no technical side to back the emotions up, so it can be ignored. Is that really what you guys want?

Many of the powergamers are such people I'd never entrust with the ability to decide on other people's character, as they seem to be lost with the purpose of their own ones too.

[Avalyon el'Hattarr]

Get on workin on a small "underworld" map where dead guys hang arround, till a Keeper of Souls (GM played) is convinced to let them live again.

Yes, I am serious, a place with interesting RP.