Dr. Strangelove, or: How I'd love to stop skilling and play!

Post by **Nitram** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:36 am

Dantagon Marescot wrote:@ Staff:
Does this matter enough to you for you to listen to our suggestions and try to implement something like this? If all of us, including you can come up with a good way of going about this, will you do it? Tell us now before all of us waste our time and brain power thinking up something to help Illa and find out you really don't want to do anything about it.

If we would ignore all suggestions from the players we could save the space in the database that is used by this board.

I would say something like this is possible without too much problems. But for sure, something like this won't be done, before the server runs really stable again.

But something like this is the part of our server developers. So they have to say, if that could be done or not.

Nitram

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:25 am

Increase without training the skill itself would help the game a lot. One good example would be for a skill lyke "Lockpicking" which would be stupid to train (run around opening locks?) but would be ok to learn by that method.

Sorry, but I can't contribute to any method, and all of them look pretty abusable.

Lianis · Post by **Lianis** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:50 am

What about a logged-in-time counter that would give you a *boost* on your learning curve?

<techno-mumbo-jumbo>If they're logged in for X amount of time, boost their minor skill points by X%. Say, 1% for every 10 minutes that they are only and use no skill (besides languages). This would reset when they log out, or perhaps gradually decrease again when logged out.</techno-mumbo-jumbo>

In other words... the longer you are logged in and use no skills (other than languages), the faster you would learn when you do use skills.

Likewise, the counter would only go up so long as you do something every two to five minutes or so.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:39 pm

I smell a "resting" syetem somewhere arround here

Good idea Lianis! Maybe we could use this to make people hang arround towns more as well.. like, "resting" only while in a town area.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:50 pm

Skillgrowth without any actions at all is what I'd call... uncommon for an MMORPG. From what I read, a system is favoured that enables roleplayers to gain a similar level in skills like "powergamers" as long as they spend enough time ingame.

For such a system, everything is prepared. It is called the mental capacity system and sadly, it was used as a a break for skillgrowth, only. You all remember those annoying "You cannot concentrate on learning anymore" messages I guess. Per chance, was this system deactivated totally? Cassandra spend lots of time for a sophisticated skill system for Illarion and its main assumptions are just what I'd call perfect. But it needs tweaking, exchanging some numbers can yield a satisfying system for everybody. In addition, I doubt it makes much sense to code a brand new skill system from the scratch with a very powerful system already being implemented.

By the way, I totally agree that slower skillgain favours those who click all day long. Thus, faster skillgain is the way to go.

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:50 pm

Would that mean I would have to plan my day in such manner that I fist play for six hours and then go training to get the benefit? What about in case I'd have to log out without training at some point? Would I lose the "bonus" I've accumulated? In which case it would be pretty much the same. I'd still "have to" run into the crypts/mines/woods on a daily basis to get anything out of it.

I'm a wee bit sceptical about that.

Perhaps my proposal could be altered in such way that "training" the skill would increase the accumulation of the "points" by slightly (10-20% faster for the time spent on training) to give a slight payoff in terms of skills for people who wanna do that kind of thing without actively supporting powergaming.

The system can basically made into anything:
@Wyrda
The higher your skill in X gets, the more "points" it could cost to increase the skill. This simply to help newer characters to gain slightly on the old ones with massive amounts of online time.

@Haedrian
There is NOTHING that is not abusable. I don't see why this would be any more abusable than the other, if correct safeguards are in place.. the only difference would be that those people who actually would roleplay do not necessarily take it in the butt each time their characters are confronted with the technical aspect of the game.

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:00 pm

I have a proposal: why not everyone, staff included apparently as recent events have shown, stop worrying so much that powergamer x has better skills than you?

I know that being only moderate or so must be *absolutely* terrible.

I've been playing City of Heroes for a couple of months and still don't have a character that's over 10th level due to lack of time, but do I propose to Cryptic Studios that this must be some sort of bug?

There's absolutely no roleplay going on there. It's ocurring to me that maybe there's no roleplay going on here, either.

Alytys Lamar · Post by **Alytys Lamar** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:15 pm

@Aegohl

First : this isn't the meaning of the thread.

Second: Go IG and then give a comment about the RP IG. I would really appreciate this ! ( and yes I read the *maybe* >.< )

Wyrda · Post by **Wyrda** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:44 pm

I dont like these ideas, basically i think it is fine as it is. I admit i have pg chars... Merri, Dash was to some extent but now i rp him because he is moderate, not even good. But i have rp chars as well that don't need skill. Airin Merrymount was killed off a while back, but i brough him back cause he was really fun, and now Merri is turning almost completely rp with his next get rich idea, its all planned out.... but i dont think the system needs changing.

Wyrda · Post by **Wyrda** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:48 pm

I dont like faster skill gain... then everyone is going to be uber, you won't need to find anyone for trade. I was looking forward to the deleting of tb depots becuse it would force fun trade situations... I would much rather everyone be moderate then everyone great at everything

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:50 pm

Mr. Cromwell wrote:@Haedrian
There is NOTHING that is not abusable. I don't see why this would be any more abusable than the other, if correct safeguards are in place.. the only difference would be that those people who actually would roleplay do not necessarily take it in the butt each time their characters are confronted with the technical aspect of the game.

Park the character somewhere and BAM skillups...

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:05 pm

..I think that anti-idling measures in terms of gaining skill in the proposed system have been mentioned like dozen times already..

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:45 am

if we did fast skillgain its quite simple to make sure trade still occurs. Just make an overall skillcap, and perhaps give us a bar or some indicator that would tell us how much of that we've filled up.

Dash · Post by **Dash** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:19 am

So we would have to specialize like with classes? If we make skill gain easier i would support this. However, i still like how we are much better then any of these ideas.

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:31 pm

this idea isnt that bad, but i dont like the idea AT ALL that a player could possibly max their skills out without every doing the skill. I've read most of this thread and not sure if this has been suggested, but more skillspoints should be required for higher levels.

Lets say every 2 hours you are reward 10 skill points

lvl 1-10 requires 1 points to level up. 2 hours required to reach level 10.
lvl 10-20 requires 2 points to level up. 4 hours required to reach level 20.
lvl 20-30 requires 2 points to level up. 4 hours required to reach lvl 30.
lvl 30-40 requires 4 points to level up. 8 hours to reach level 40.
lvl 40-50 requires 6 points to level up. 12 hours required to reach lvl 50
lvl 50-60 requires 8 points to level up. 16 hours required to reach level 60.
lvl 60-70 requires 11 points to level up. 22 hours required to reach level 70.
lvl 70-80 requires 14 points to level up. 28 hours to reach level 80.
lvl 80-90 requires 20 points to level up. 40 hours to reacl level 90.
lvl 90-100 requires 40 points to level up. 80 hours to reach level 100.

now thats 216 hours to level max out one skill. This is just something i pulled out of my ass, i dont think its TOO bad, considering you get that by sitting on your ass and talking that entire time. With this system it would take 46 hours to get to level 60 and it becomes way harder past that point, thus forcing players to go out and do something.

Now again, this was just pulled out of my ass without much thought but it gives you an idea of what im trying to say. There should be a point where it would be VERY difficult to get high levels just by roleplaying.

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:49 pm

Pellandria wrote:guess you need to make the skill points and the actually working thing together, sure its boring to powergame, but I would say you gain a certaint skill(like 10%), then you must work/fight/speak (up to 15-20%) and the skill will can be raised for a few points/swirlies again and then you need to work again.

Just like to quote myself to let this "talskiller" argument fall, so you need to work there at all without wokr you won't get any exp after a while and isn't it allready like this, you need more swirlies to come from "lvl" 10-15 then from 1- 5 or?

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:24 pm

I had the thought while at work today that the formula for it should register #me's as more points to encourage people to not make an entire conversation of talking, but some actions too. I don't know how much sence this makes, or how easy it is to imput but ...

((# of speech/0.5) + (# of #me's)) / time online = points towards swirlie

I don't know if that makes anysence to anyone, or even if it makes sence to me. Plus I like the idea that it should take more free placement swirlies to level up skills as they get higher.

Gort Greegog · Post by **Gort Greegog** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:36 am

I like Salathe's idea of skill gain. Though, after level 60 or so I think you MUST have to do some actual skill gaining or power gaming, I don't care what you call it. At level 60 you can make good things in crafts, though you can't be some super rich merchant. At level 60 skills you can beat people within 30 levels above your skill or so depending on many variables outside of skill. Almost every combo of 60 skilled fighters could beat a maxed fighter.

Reason I dislike ANY talking system - would be way to easy to abuse. Add a spell checker to ensure no spam? For every bit of slang? For German and English? You have likely read the other anti-word system arguments from reading this thread.

I really can't see why we NEED a new system. Estralis made a blunt statement that only an idiot would ignore. Think about what he said. And of course there is Rp in the game, he knows this. He is not an idiot and he has been involved in quite a bit of Rp in the game. I can manage to balance a decent amount of roleplay and skill gain. Infact it has been about a year since I had a character will a skill above 70(exept mining) in game. Most of the time when I do any skill gaining I am doing it with some one else and Roleplaying.

Dash · Post by **Dash** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:56 pm

Yah, i dont like the idea of being so good at everything. Just roleplay, why is it sooooo important that your char is a good as the one next to you? I dont have a single skill (except mining maybe) that is over level 60 right now. I say it just stays the same

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:21 pm

Well, obviously you guys know well enough about the skills to actually calculate the "levels" and such.. and they are not important?

For me they are just swirlies.

@Dash
You are continuously missing the point. It's not to be good at everything (because the amount of net skillgain could be adjusted pretty easily) but to be good/moderate/not complete pushover at SOMETHING.

Gort Greegog · Post by **Gort Greegog** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:30 am

Mr. Cromwell wrote:Well, obviously you guys know well enough about the skills to actually calculate the "levels" and such.. and they are not important?

For me they are just swirlies.

@Dash
You are continuously missing the point. It's not to be good at everything (because the amount of net skillgain could be adjusted pretty easily) but to be good/moderate/not complete pushover at SOMETHING.

Actually I was just smart enough to figure out how to find a skill's exact level based on it's color. I never said they weren't important. I think that this is a video game and not DnD. Being a video game, skills are important to it. I know the devs agree, they wouldn't spend so much time on something unimportant would they? Do take note, I am not some one that goes and trains their characters for more than maybe 15 minutes on average a day.