An Excuse / Eine Entschuldigung

Salhari · Post by **Salhari** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:46 pm

What i ment was, I have not seen them running around, flaunting their skills, trying to sell excellent items all the time, causing havoc in the game world, or the game economy. Some of you may have seen these things, but I have never even read about anything of the such on the boards. They volunteer their personal time, let them have some fun with it. sheesh.

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:49 pm

Just to ask..are there some Player chars, who are not within the staff, which are pushed in any way, because the Player is a friend of a GM or something, this would be the only use of such an Topic here.

Salhari · Post by **Salhari** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:53 pm

Exactly Pell. If a non-staff player had a pushed character, that would upset me a little bit. Not enough to leave the game or anything, but it would be wrong. I think That the staff should be able to do anything they wish, this is THEIR game after all. They have all developed it into what it is now, and feed our addiction to it. Why bother if they have super characters? Doesn't bother me at all.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:54 pm

@Nitram : Or you could just RP with a skillless character.

And for Pellandria's question, the answer is yes.

Post by **Nitram** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:59 pm

Arameh wrote:@Nitram : Or you could just RP with a skillless character.

I think in that case that you do the same as well and don't mind if i remove all skills from your characters.

Arameh wrote:And for Pellandria's question, the answer is yes.

o rly? Examples.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:06 pm

Nitram is pushed. BAnz0rZ him!

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:15 pm

Peculiar question: When did this pushing of dev chars start? Or has it always existed? (Even pre-draught, etcetera etcetera)

Steeve · Post by **Steeve** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:31 pm

Wow this sure is an eye opener.

In games I have played GMs are volunteers that are given all their powers so they can help normal players have more fun. Not so that they can cheat the system and superpowergame their way to owning uber characters that are better than everybody else's characters.

Why is this even occurring? Shouldn't staff be working because they sincerely want to improve the game instead of so that they can unfairly steal game rewards?

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:41 pm

Steeve wrote:Not so that they can cheat the system and superpowergame their way to owning uber characters that are better than everybody else's characters.

What? Is this really happening? I must be blind because I don't see it. Maybe someone could enlighten me?

But anyway, it shouldn't be a problem as long as they rp well. I wouldn't really mind if my trained char gets beaten by a pushed char, as long as the RP is fun.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:47 pm

Avalyon was beaten by one some time ago (one with huge magic resitance) and you haven't seen me ranting arround in the forum.
I agree upon the usage of pushed chars by persons that have a good idea of what true rp is

Post by **Nitram** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:53 pm

Now slowly i'm slightly pissed of.

Misjbar. I had a pushed player character since around a year. It was the character "Marius Eisenhauer"

Steeve. Are you create for every single post you do a new account? Thats slightly useless, since all of your accounts are linkable by the IP that is written in every post.

Anyway.
Why do you think are the developers developing a game only because they want to have advantages?
If you think so, you may leave this game and play something else.
Do you think pushing means: "all attributes to 250, all skills to 100 and the best items with perfect quality" ? Thats crap. Nobody in the staff would even think about doing something like this.

But even slightly raises of skills is pushing while the character still has the attributes as every player character could have them.

What you all say, is that a developer who spends the main time of his time into developing the game ( what is currently for me around 10 hours per day ), can't ever have a strong character.
And i will remove ALL skills of EVERY character of those who say now "then play a character without skills". Because those can do this then too.

Nitram

Ronider · Post by **Ronider** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:57 pm

I feel bad for starting this by explaining the first post better in english...

Mind if I ask the people complaining now one thing:

Why didn't you complain before this post, if it's that unfair and bad and affects the game that much?
As you see it can't be that bad because otherwise voices against it would've been raised already, without a staff member himself (Damien) having to admit to this.

Why is it such a big deal now you know?

Ilaya Iselle van Illdoran · Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:06 pm

Ich sehe keinerlei Probleme darin, da die Zeit ig einfach fehlt, um den Char aufzubauen. Teammitgliedern sollte das erlaubt sein....vorm allem bei schon lange bestehenden Chars.

Alles andere, wie auch das oben jetzt wurde schon mehrmals geschrieben, daher belasse ich es mal hierbei.

Christiana · Post by **Christiana** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:11 pm

ich seh da auch kein problem, solange es nicht ausgenutzt wird, wie es bereits mindestens einmal geschehen ist (aber das ist dann auch bestraft worden). für quests ist es ohnehin manchmal erforderlich chars zu pushen, da kann man nicht erwarten, dass die leute jahre damit zubringen den char zu entwickeln um irgendwann ein quest zu machen bei dem der char evtl. ohnehin stirbt.

Steeve · Post by **Steeve** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:22 pm

Nitram why are you threatening us for criticizing your faults?

If you truly wanted to "develop the game" then you wouldn't be running around with fraudulently obtained characters for your "personal amusement".

Infact if you truly cared about "developing the game" then you would be playing it as a normal character would to get a better idea of how the game actually is and what parts of it need improvement.

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:27 pm

@ Nitram @ Powergaming

I think people should be given skills at a fixed rate, depending solely on the online hours of each said character (as opposed to what he does during the online time like now). I hope the staff comes to realise the possibility in this kind of system (it rewards a player who spends a lot of time online, but on the other it doesn't force those without that much time to choose between roleplaying and character skills) and maybe implements it someday. Or at least gives people the chance to choose to gain skill in that way too.

Post by **Nitram** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:27 pm

I would ask you to ask your brain, Steeve.

You ask me to play in the way players do, and develop the game. Dunno, but i do not have a maschine that allows time travels. That would be surely needed here. Since the time i spend in developing that game, i can't spend into playing it. Got this? Or is it too hard?

So where shall i get all the time some characters who are really strong now, use to powergame. In the time i powergame i can't develop. You see the problem?

Now i could play the game without any skills.
But would it be fun to do, if your character can nothing. You don't have to answer since i can look into your account and know the answer is "no".

Same thing for Arameh.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:32 pm

People people, chill pill prescription..

Why is this suddenly a problem? no one ranted that a "pushed" char is running loose and killing at sight. Why do you care so much? It doesn't influence your RP in any way.

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:33 pm

Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:People people, chill pill prescription..

Why is this suddenly a problem? no one ranted that a "pushed" char is running loose and killing at sight. Why do you care so much? It doesn't influence your RP in any way.

Because everyone knows that the staff is evil.

Thorvald · Post by **Thorvald** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:38 pm

Mr. Cromwell wrote: Because everyone knows that the staff is evil.

Quite right. This game has been CREATED to destroy your fun. It's a project supported by medical institutions that want to increase the sale of antidepressants.

And now I have to pack my things and hide somewhere, before they find me.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:40 pm

We are also part of the Illuminati.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:34 pm

I doubt many people that complained could even name a pushed character until Nitram named one. I would agree that characters that have pushed SKILLS not stats are alright for a dev/gm who spend much of their free time making the game better. The only reason I say skills and not stats is so they are at least beatable by one other character if they are a normal non-quest character.

Please don't use the first sentence as an open invite to name any characters that you think were pushed.

Thorvald · Post by **Thorvald** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:46 pm

Lrmy wrote:The only reason I say skills and not stats is so they are at least beatable by one other character if they are a normal non-quest character.

There has never been a playerchar played by a staff member that had changed stats.

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:50 pm

Keikan Hiru wrote:We are also part of the Illuminati.

<_<
>_>
Shhh.

Cassandra Fjurin · Post by **Cassandra Fjurin** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:36 pm

jetzt bin ich mal dran und zwar auf deutsch weil ich angepisst bin.
Ich spiele sehr wenig Illarion, dafür entwickel ich gerne daran weil es mich vorran bringt. Aber manchmal kann das so frustrierend sein, genau wie das leben an sich. Dann möchte man mal was besonderes machen, etwas was nicht jeder kann, etwas was spaß macht. Warum regen sich die meisten hier über gepushte chars auf? Ganz einfach weil sie auch gerne einen hätten. Weil es sie stört das jemand stärker ist als sie selber durch etwas was sie nie einfach erreichen können.

Ich habe niemals jemanden einfach umgehauen, ich weiss ich bin stärker als andere. Aber darum gehts auch nicht, es geht darum nach nen beschissenen Tag. NAchdem man 10 h lang gewartet hat das man endlich was wichtiges rausfindet, nachdem man im Forum 10 posts gelesen hat was noch alles scheiße ist. irgendwann auch mal selber was machen möchte was einen spaß macht. Dann macht man auch mal dinge die nicht perfekt in jeden hintergrun passen, dinge die ggf auch mal jemanden ärgern. Solange es nicht übertrieben wird? Ich bin der letzte der nicht weiss wenn ich zu weit gehe, und meistens wenn ich jemanden ärgere geht der spieler nicht leer dabei aus.

Wenn jemand damit nicht klar kommt das ich gepushte chars hat, gerne ich kann auch gehen. Was ist euch lieber, ab und an mal von einen Dev belästigt zu werden der in wenigen Fällen auch mal was vom Spiel erwartet anstatt immer nur zu investieren, oder einen Serverstand vor 2 Jahren weil niemand dran entwickelt.

My 2 cents.

Post by **Jupiter** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:53 pm

Ich erlaube mir dann mal auf Deutsch zu Antworten.

Aus meiner Sicht, habe ich kein Problem damit, dass ihr, die soviel zeit in Illa stecken, gepushte Chars habt.
Ganz im Gegenteil, ich finde es sogar richtig so.

Und ich verstehe, dass du angepisst bist, aber ich denke, dass die klare Meherheit kein Problem dmait hat und nur die und zwar nur die paar, die was dagegen haben, sich so auf spielen müssen , wie sie es tun.

Kurz:
Lass dir von den paar die meckern nicht die Stimmung vermiesen.
Die meißten stehen hinter euch denke ich.

Thorgrimm · Post by **Thorgrimm** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:57 pm

Ich muss sagen, ich habe mir das mal hier alles durchgelesen.

Kann es sein, dass sich diejenigen, die sich am lautesten beschweren, diejenigen sind, die am meisten Pgamen?

@Staff: Leute, ihr macht einen tollen Job, wirklich. Wenn man bedenkt, was ihr alles für Arbeit neben eurem ichtigen Leben (INGAME *G*) habt, muss ich echt den Hut ziehen.
Ihr macht dies alles für uns und dafür vielmals danke.

@die weigen Nörgler: Gut, was haben die Staffmitglieder, welche leicht gepushte Skills haben, euch denn nun schweres getan?
Eigentlich sind es immer die gleichen, die im kolektiv auf jemanden eindreschen und laut jammern.

Wenn man vor dem Charwipe lange einen magier gespielt hat und nach dem charwipe ohne Magie weiterhin einen Magier gespielt hat, dann gehört der Skillup irgendwie zum Hintergrund - nebenbei reden wir von Figuren, die nicht andauernd auftauchen oder das Spiel bestimmen, sondern nur ein kleiner Teil davon sind.

Schade, dass man das nicht verstehen kann.

Miguel

Senrin der Ältere · Post by **Senrin der Ältere** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:09 pm

Da kann ich Meister Miguel eigentlich nur noch, ohne etwas hinzuzufügen Recht geben!

~Senrin

Thorvald · Post by **Thorvald** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:24 pm

Hm, I've had a short look over the thread and I wonder who you guys are arguing with.

About 17 people in the last two sites are totally fine with Dev members pushing their chars in an appropiate way, because they have no time.

about 6 people were either slightly off-topic, are neutral about it or didn't understand what this thread actually is about.

And only 2 (or maybe 3) seem to be actually against it.

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:30 pm

First off, I really don't care if the staff pushes their character slightly as long they don't start using them to come in and beat everyone up or make a monopoly inside the game. Though it is possible to rp without any skills, it is near impossible in this game expecially when it comes to warriors. In order to defend yourself with a fighting character you have to skill up, which is near impossible for those of us who would rather spend our time rping than sitting around getting swirlies.

Now what about this rewarding people who actually rp and not spend all their time powergaming their character? What do we do to develop the game? *Points to the Proposals board.* Sure not all the ideas on there are the best, nor are they all going to be implimented, but they are something that helps give staff a better idea of what we want or think would better the game. And we can use it to help staff if they are stuck on something and can't think of how to work something out.

What about ig? If the staff is so busy working on developing things, who are they developing them for if they can't role play as much as they would like? Well obiously the players are the ones who are rping and keeping the game live and giving the staff a reason to keep developing what they make. Not only that, but the characters who sit and rp make up the many guilds and towns which run the world. The deplomacy between these groups is done by rp and not by pging. We are trying to make sure that this game stays fun for others (even when the pged characters are almost always the bad guy who tends to make the game less fun).

So why not reward those who work hard to keep the game fun and do it through rp and not constant skill raising? It may also help to balance out the game so some people who don't have the time to spend pging and wish to spend what little time they have rping will have a chance against pged characters. That or we could just keep a closer eye on characters and do skill decreases for these pged characters instead.

@Thorvald
I think we are just arguing for the sake of arguing. More fun that way.