kallahorn building

Mark Strongarm · Post by **Mark Strongarm** » Sat May 26, 2007 5:41 am

can I ask why the kallahorn building has lasted so long and then when I start playing mark strongarm again someone desides to destroy it? doesn't seem very nice to me.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sat May 26, 2007 6:40 am

http://illarion.org/illarion/us_build_rules.php wrote:What happens if i become inactive

* A character counts as inactive, if it wasn't loged in for two months
* The houses of inactive players, become the ownership of the town, where it is build in.
* If a house get no new owner it degenerates.
* If a guild has less then 4 members caused by inactivity, the whole guild is inactive and the building of this guild is free to get into the ownership of another guild. If this doesn't happen the building degenerates too.

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Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat May 26, 2007 7:43 am

It got destroyed? It was owned by the knighthood of Gobiath as far as I know, and if not, last time I logged in with Arameh it was still there(like some days ago) so it got destroyed with an active owner.

Achae Eanstray · Post by **Achae Eanstray** » Sat May 26, 2007 9:51 am

I am not sure of the exact number of active Knights now but I know of at least four that I have seen ig the past couple of weeks (this is not counting Mark or Arameh either).
Dantagon, Joro, Ayla and Matthew

Post by **Nitram** » Sat May 26, 2007 10:56 am

Active is not using a building. If your guild is active but noone is in your building, the same thing happens as you are inactive.

Regarding to the changing logfiles of the map files the building got destroyed at the map update at the 20th of Mai 2007.

So it took you 6 days until you realized that it got destroyed.

Since i'm sure that Lennier does not destroyed used buildings, it comes in my mind that you were not there in the time before too.

The Kallahorn thing is the reason why Lennier started that discussion how to prevent that Guilds build something but don't use that what they builded.

I know that your guild was active in the time between the destroying and now. More then once. But noone realized that it got destroyed until now. So noone used it.
If your Knighthood does not live in that building, you don't need it.

And the point that its too far away from everything else is invalid, since you choose the place to build on your own. You could have builded it closer to the towns.

Thats my opinion on the point but i'm sure Lennier is able to say what happend for sure

Nitram

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Sat May 26, 2007 1:15 pm

It was a kind of test.

Around 5 weeks ago i deleted a depot in the house of Kallahorn - no reaction of the players

2 weeks ago i began to destroy some parts - no reaction of the players

Last weekend a storm came about it (ingame story about it) and destroyed much more. And wow, i am surprised. I got a reaction! Arameh, lost member of former Kallahorn, noticed, that the building is destroyed. But noone of them who should be active within the last months...

That shows me, that the active owners are not interested on their property. Maybe because it is missplaced.

I think we will find a solution for it within the discussed changes of building rules, which becomes much more strict.

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Sat May 26, 2007 1:24 pm

Lol! That's kinda..funny.

The depot was noticed though. When Amroth was made a knight, the event was going to be held there. But since they found no depot, we rped that it was stolen, and everything was moved to the library.

For the rest, since my char has no key, well he had no reason to go there.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat May 26, 2007 4:29 pm

The depot of Kallahorn is still there? Some characters still had items in it.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Sat May 26, 2007 4:35 pm

Considering the obvious activity of the people now as well as the in game interest in the building and chance for RP it would make clear and perfect sense to re-establish the building.

Post by **Nitram** » Sat May 26, 2007 5:31 pm

Lrmy wrote:Considering the obvious activity of the people

Activity everywhere but in their house shows clearly that they do not need it.

Lrmy wrote:now as well as the in game interest in the building

Once every 4 weeks? Great...

Lrmy wrote:and chance for RP it would make clear and perfect sense to re-establish the building.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Sat May 26, 2007 5:36 pm

ithink, it would be a good compromise, to "move" (relocate) the building near a town, when new building rules will be implemented.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat May 26, 2007 7:11 pm

I agree with Korm, the reason we woulnt use it, is because it was ages away.

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Sat May 26, 2007 7:13 pm

Yup, agreed aswell.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Sat May 26, 2007 7:44 pm

Nitram wrote:
Lrmy wrote:Considering the obvious activity of the people
Activity everywhere but in their house shows clearly that they do not need it.

Lrmy wrote:now as well as the in game interest in the building
Once every 4 weeks? Great...

Lrmy wrote:and chance for RP it would make clear and perfect sense to re-establish the building.

You should do home work and see how often the people that posted here play before saying every four weeks.

Post by **Nitram** » Sat May 26, 2007 7:49 pm

And you should start thinking and reading Lrmy.

I wrote that they USE the building once in 4 weeks. Not that they play every 4 weeks.

They play and anywhere else but in that building.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sat May 26, 2007 7:50 pm

Lrmy wrote:
Nitram wrote:
Lrmy wrote:Considering the obvious activity of the people
Activity everywhere but in their house shows clearly that they do not need it.

Lrmy wrote:now as well as the in game interest in the building
Once every 4 weeks? Great...

Lrmy wrote:and chance for RP it would make clear and perfect sense to re-establish the building.

You should do home work and see how often the people that posted here play before saying every four weeks.

He said they use the building once every 4 weeks, not how much they play.

Mark Strongarm · Post by **Mark Strongarm** » Sat May 26, 2007 11:27 pm

the intention of the building was as the first part of building a castle and new land, its position was chosen wisely. Castles and new lands aren't built over night, or even over a year, and the idea(if it stays up by the developers) could still have potential in the future.

Its not so much the building is needed as it is fun to have. The building is a symbol of what the knighthood was, and what it has the potential to be. Its an accomplishment and also leaves many positive goals and new ideas to come about in its regards.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Sun May 27, 2007 12:07 am

Nitram wrote:And you should start thinking and reading Lrmy.

I wrote that they USE the building once in 4 weeks. Not that they play every 4 weeks.

They play and anywhere else but in that building.

As Mark said, the building was the starting of a castle, the players of the original project lately have been playing. Collecting resources for a castle rarely involves standing in an empty building.

And, I was just THINKING a step ahead in the thought process. I tend to forget that not everyone can do/does that. I meant no harshness to you Nitram, it was more a joke.

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Sun May 27, 2007 3:11 am

Blame PO Stephen for deciding to build it all the way out there.

I didn't know that buildings got destroyed if not used. Else I may have gone there a little more. And I had the intentions of expanding it and using it as a place for meetings. Possibly larger events. I had plans for it. And maybe if we had had an easier way to get there (ie a portal/portal book/telepotation device), it may have been used.

I was the first one to notice that the depots were missing. It was rather upsetting as I wanted to use the place for the knighting as it is THE symbol of the knighthood and I don't apprechiate it being destroyed like that. I was going to ask Lennier about it, but it slipped my mind as I actually have a life and other things I need to do.

Next time make it clear that you won't keep buildings that aren't actively used for 4 weeks. And Nitram, don't you dare quote where that is. Last time I read the thing it said active guild. Not active guild in the building.

Thanks for destroying Kallahorn Keep without warning. At least you didn't try offering Dantagon insurance for the building before destroying it. Or burning it.

Rules:
Where i can build?

Single persons and unofficial partnerships can build little houses in towns and villages, but not in the wilderness. An agreement with the local goverment is needed.

The official settlements are:

Troll's Bane
Varshikar
Silverbrand (only in the underground)
Greenbriar
Tol Vanima

All other ingame territories are owned by guilds.

Guilds and clans, which are official guilds at the guildboard for at least 3 months, can build everywhere. But the groups has to be autonom of other guilds (citizens of the official settlements are not included). That means that the leadership and at least 4 members are not in any other guild or clan. Guilds and clans can found partnerships to build.

The building place has to be agreed with GMs. It is not allowed to build in places related to quests. The entrance has to be free for all.

What i can build?

Single persons and open partnerships are allowed to build at an owned area of 100 fields.

Guilds and clans can build and expand their houses at their land without limits. But the size of the land depands on the number of members and is sized with at least 700 fields and 50 more for each member obove of the minimum limit of 4. Following must be pointed out here again: Only chars get counted, which are not member of any other guild or which are not owner and co-owner of a private house.

The infrastructure and military buildings for protection of the towns can be built by their goverments and in cooperation with their citizens. Their size has to stay in good relation to the activity and importance of the settlement (GMs decide about it).

Aesthetic and content mistakes within the plans will be rejected by the GMs.

What i have to pay?

Within the towns you have to pay for the land to the local rulers if they raise a tax for it.

In the wilderness you have to pay money to the worker for reclaiming land. The price is 20 coppercoins per field.

The Creation of new caves/cellars in the underground or inside of mountains costs 100 coppercoins per field. The ground and the walls will be made of natural rock.

What happens if i become inactive?

A character counts as inactive, if it wasn't loged in for two months

The houses of inactive players, become the ownership of the town, where it is build in. They have to search for a new use.

If a house get no new owner it degenerates.

If a guild has less then 4 members caused by inactivity, the whole guild is inactive and the building of this guild is free to get into the ownership of another guild. If this doesn't happen the building degenerates too.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Sun May 27, 2007 3:52 am

Dantagon, if you remember.. Stephen wanted the building hidden from everyone, so he built it "way out there".

Mark Strongarm · Post by **Mark Strongarm** » Sun May 27, 2007 4:00 am

yes I quite like the positioning of the building, sure its a walk , but it has its advantages *taps his nose*
By the rules dantagon quoted it doesn't seem like degeneration needs to be applied. But I mean, we all still want to work with it, can something be done?

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Sun May 27, 2007 4:10 am

He failed. Everyone knows where it is. What he also failed to see is that it is so far away no one really uses it. I wanted it to be a refugee/turn it into a real castle. But I had to get the shelter done first and start figuring out what to do with the castle. Of course, I kind of had to finish up highschool first and deal with working part time. I really was hoping to build a big dinning room of sorts next to the tower so we could have some sort of large event, a dance or a knighting. Maybe put in an alter. I thought of having some sort of a contest there, smillar to the "who is the fighter in Gobaith." Even get the GMs in on it. I'm sure the GMs wouldn't want another town, but I would have liked to see it build.

Regardless of how little it was used in the moment, it could have been useful in the furture. And it still could be because there was no known rule of how often we had to use it... All these great ideas wasted... All these possiblities destroyed... And I don't understand why... I followed the rules and did what was stated.

I should have remembered to complain when the depots were missing, but I was so wrapped up in getting Amroth knighted. I almost asked the Devs to create banners with the knighthood symbols on it to place on or near the building. Or even ask the Gms if I was allowed to RP certain improvements made to the building for the knighthing... I wanted to make it fun for those attending the knighting. There was less than I expected, sure... But I still wanted to make it fun...

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun May 27, 2007 4:58 am

Why didn't you just tell them SOMETHING? I mean, talk with lennier he might give you 1/2 price on rebuilding it from its deteriorated state. Isn't the broken down monastary there still? XD

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Sun May 27, 2007 5:22 am

I forgot. That is basically it. The depots were missing and I was going to talk to the devs about it, but I forgot. And I might be willing to cut a deal with the Gms. Though you are right, the temple never gets used, why is it still there?

Juliana D'cheyne · Post by **Juliana D'cheyne** » Sun May 27, 2007 7:26 am

I have tried to get in the building a few times to use the depot, but it has been locked. Perhaps if it was back and kept unlocked, more would use it?

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Sun May 27, 2007 7:50 am

If someone would have came up with the idea earlier I would have used it. I never thought of it myself as I always locked the building and was afraid to go into the graveyard with it. There was nothing to really be stolen in there anyway. (Except two depots which some how turned up missing the day of Amroths knighting).

If any one cares (which I doubt) I have the logs of the day we noticed. April 22nd. And maybe, now that we know that buildings can be destroyed if inactive, we will use the building (which will appear out of no where as if nothing ever happened), more. Sound fair to everyone?

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Sun May 27, 2007 9:33 am

tome it appears, that the location of the building is to nobodies contentness.
why dont you negotiate with the staff, to get it put somewhere near a town? - where it would/could be used more?

Miklorius · Post by **Miklorius** » Sun May 27, 2007 11:14 am

Mark Strongarm wrote:the intention of the building was as the first part of building a castle and new land, its position was chosen wisely.

Near the trolls and a cross for PG?

Mark Strongarm · Post by **Mark Strongarm** » Sun May 27, 2007 5:02 pm

Near a trolls cross for training, but that is hardly the point. It was far removed from anything else because Stephen wanted to build a new town, and while I agree with Dantagon that there are not enough players to fill the number of towns we already have, that doesn't mean that there might not be need for one in the future. I don't like the idea of moving the building because buildings don't just hop up and move. I don't like the idea of it degenerating as that would take a good century.

Just FYI the building still stands with walls missing and floorboards missing. (at least as of 3 days ago)

Can I ask a dev to tell me what your intentions are and if there is anything we can do?

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Sun May 27, 2007 5:39 pm

Stephen placed it way out there so that we could 'hide.' As I later found out OOCly, people knew where it was because we had a depot named "Kallahorn" in there before we started locking it. Now, if Lennier wants some good rp, then there is the possibility of us having the builders "repair" the building. The only problem is there are to many projects going on at once and not enough time to work on them all. I just now got out of school so I may be able to collect the resources some how, and the new crafting group can help hopefully...

Oh, and may I suggest that they build one of the Salkamearian teleportation devices near Kallahorn? It will make the building easier to get to so more people will come to it and it can be used for larger ig events. The building will be used. But understand the knighthood is currently rebuilding and all of us have been in school for the past 9 months. That and teachers enjoy giving us endless work in april and may.