Separate Smithing / Schmieden trennen

Taeryon Silverlight · Tue May 22, 2007 12:33 pm

Since smiths can make many more expensive things then every other crafter, I thought about separating them into three types of smithing, to take away their "uber-stat". There should be three skills for the three types of smithing, which were common in the Middle Ages: Blacksmith, Cutler, Armorer. Every skill of thoose would be for one part of the smithing we have now.

Blacksmithing: Tools and gruff weapons, like big swords or axes.
Cutler: "fine-bladed" weapons like daggers and sabres
Armorer: Armory like helmets, armors, greeves, shields and all the weapons which can not be made by the other two types of smiths.

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Da Schmiede viel mehr teure Sachen als alle anderen Handwerker herstellen können, dachte ich mir, dass sie in drei Arten von Schmieden aufgeteilt werden sollten, um ihnen diesen "Uber-Status" wegzunehmen. Es sollte dabei drei Skills für die drei verschiedenen Schmiedeberufe geben, die im Mittelalter bekannt waren: Grobschmiede, Waffenschmiede, Messerschmiede. Jeder dieser Skills würde einen bestimmten Teil des derzeitigen Schmiedens übernehmen.

Grobschmiede: Werkzeuge und grobe Waffen, wie große Schwerter oder Äxte.
Messerschmiede: Waffen und Dinge mit feinen Klingen, wie Dolche, Degen, Rasiermesser
Waffenschmied: Alle Rüstungen, Helme, Schilde und die Waffen, die nicht mit den anderen beiden Skills herstellbar sind.

Lianis · Post by **Lianis** » Tue May 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Not too bad an idea, but I think it perfectly sufficient to have 'armorsmiths' and 'weaponsmiths'. With maybe a third just 'blacksmith' for the things that don't fall into either of those.. tools and such; though I think that would fit fine with the weaponsmith. Smiths make much more on armor than they do on weapons, so splitting the weapons in half is somewhat silly.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue May 22, 2007 2:40 pm

Well, currently smiths can make A LOT more money than 'any' other craft by far, spliting could be a good idea if well implemented but what about the smiths we already have? They wont forget a part of smithing just like that.

Taeryon Silverlight · Post by **Taeryon Silverlight** » Tue May 22, 2007 2:43 pm

They could choose the skill they want and the gms could give them f.e. 60% in blacksmithing, instead of smithing.

Post by **Nitram** » Tue May 22, 2007 3:18 pm

This idea does nothing more then making all smiths learning all the skills. What is crappy for the current master smiths.

They will hate it at the beginning and at the end, those who have pretty good skills now, will have them at the end too and make the same money.

So in long time view you change nothing but bringing the need for more powergame into the game then we have allready now.

That change is useless in my opinion.

Nitram

pharse · Post by **pharse** » Tue May 22, 2007 3:38 pm

not if one can only specialise in one smithing skill. But this would probably require a skill system based on points already mentioned somewhere here in the forum...

Taeryon Silverlight · Post by **Taeryon Silverlight** » Tue May 22, 2007 3:40 pm

pharse wrote:not if one can only specialise in one smithing skill. But this would probably require a skill system based on points already mentioned somewhere here in the forum...

It wouldn't require a new system. You could just disable blacksmithing and cutlery, when someone gained a skill up in armory and likewise.

Post by **Nitram** » Tue May 22, 2007 3:49 pm

Then we disable carpentery in case you have allready a smithing skill.

Same with every skill else. And here we go a class based system.

Taeryon Silverlight · Post by **Taeryon Silverlight** » Tue May 22, 2007 3:50 pm

I wouldn't be bothered if carpentry is disabled when you have smithing. Namfa is dead anyway

Tanistian_Kanea · Post by **Tanistian_Kanea** » Wed May 23, 2007 12:52 am

i like the idea of being cut off from certain skills, i don't like people like dusty, no offence dude, that can do just about everything. it is really anoying by the same old players beating you at everything. they make so much more money and they can cut out the middle men cause they can do it themselves.

Dash · Post by **Dash** » Wed May 23, 2007 1:09 am

but you like the idea of classes that limit what you are allowed to do?

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Wed May 23, 2007 1:42 am

Why can't we have player X gets Y skill then has to choose armouring or weapon making as his specialization and you can only choose 1 specialization?

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Wed May 23, 2007 2:13 am

specialized chars have to interact with others for their needs.interaction is the base of RP.

so, why does any RPer fight against specialization?

i think, the only question is, how far we specialize.

there are mainly two possibilities:
1) the rigid one. you choose, what you want to do, and have to stay with it.
2) the flexible one. every char has a maximum of skillpoints to use. when these are all spent, every further rise in one skill produces a fall in that skill, that has not been used for the longest time.

i am for the second. so the player s free to decide, if he wants to play a higly specialized char, who needs help in other areas, or if he plays a mediocre allrounder.
so it represents the most possible freedom for change, without producing uberchars.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Wed May 23, 2007 3:47 am

I think the reason smiths make so much money is that the only decent smiths highly overprice their wares, you pay it, in character conflict not out. Smithing would be more profitable in a land where you fight beasts and undead than making food or staffs. Also, smithing is a much harder skill to learn than carpentry and the other ones. Already takes 10x as long to master smithing as it does fighting.

Taeryon Silverlight · Post by **Taeryon Silverlight** » Wed May 23, 2007 6:29 am

Once you are good in mining, smithing is pretty easy to skill. Of course it's way harder then fighting, but that's since it is a craft.

Lord Arcia · Post by **Lord Arcia** » Wed May 23, 2007 6:35 am

In my opinion, this can all be solved by RP. If someone wants their reputation as a weaponsmith...only make weapons. If a smith told me that he ONLY made weapons...and they were at least quite good quality, I would only buy weapons from him. The system doesn't need to be revised because some people have no imagination.

Reputation IG is hard to get because alot of people are the same. Make yourself stand out of the crowd, like Samantha. My character hated her...but she stood out, and that impressed me. If you want to be a armorsmith of reknown, do just that. Make armor, nothing else.

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Wed May 23, 2007 7:15 am

Tanistian_Kanea wrote:i like the idea of being cut off from certain skills, i don't like people like dusty, no offence dude, that can do just about everything. it is really anoying by the same old players beating you at everything. they make so much more money and they can cut out the middle men cause they can do it themselves.

Woah,

Something I just have to say...........
I dunno where people get the impression that Dusty is a 'god' of crafting. There are many others that 'specialize' and often create much more than Dusty can.

A lot of Dusty's 'reputation' has been elaborated through RP and misinformation. His real skills aren't that great (GM's know this) and he is actually poor (less than 100 silvers on hand). The three best skills he has are in Resource Gathering, as a good craftsman should be, but otherwise, he has a smattering of low to middle skills in many crafts. RP reason for this is that he is a merchant. He always tried to find what his customers needed, even if he had to make it himself. I haven't had to, I have always used 'middle men', ask Taliss, Mark Armstrong, Sadar and myriads others who sold me their 'resources'. As a player, I love crafting. Still do. Is that wrong?

He has had to fill many orders this last 'dwarven' year. That's another thing, he's no 'powergamer' as some alledge. He has just been around a while, had much 'commerce' from and for the players, and has been a good character. He's given fortunes to Greenbriar, to friends & to newcomers. While some others 'hoarded' their gains, Dusty never gives it a second thought to donate to a cause. And many people have benefitted from that.

Despite all this, I would delete him tomorrow if I thought it would solve anything. But the way this community whines, I doubt it would.

Just my two cents.........

BTW, I don't think Smithing should be divided up, but rather other crafts 'boosted' to compete with it.

Like Glassblowing, WTF ~ there still is hardly anything you can do with it. What about mirrors, Windows, Stained Glass, 'Clay' pottery? Except for the bottles (which aren't needed as much now that Alchemy has been deleted) it really is a useless skill.

Taeryon Silverlight · Post by **Taeryon Silverlight** » Wed May 23, 2007 7:29 am

Well, I think things like glas-jewelery and such would be cool. Also, I could imagine a strong armor, made of hard and thick glas, which looks very cool.

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Wed May 23, 2007 8:04 am

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:Well, I think things like glas-jewelery and such would be cool. Also, I could imagine a strong armor, made of hard and thick glas, which looks very cool.

Maybe even 'Magical' like Valkyrie Armor. Yeah, that would be cool.

Another idea - what about 'Pane' Glass for Greenhouses? With crops needing certain warm temperatures, some Glass Greenhouses may be useful. The lizards could also use it for their underwater cities (whenever those are implemented).

Rosendil · Post by **Rosendil** » Mon May 28, 2007 1:42 pm

This idea does nothing more then making all smiths learning all the skills. What is crappy for the current master smiths.

They will hate it at the beginning and at the end, those who have pretty good skills now, will have them at the end too and make the same money.

So in long time view you change nothing but bringing the need for more powergame into the game then we have allready now.

That change is useless in my opinion.

Nitram

As already suggested, simply don't allow those multi-skilled perfect characters ... ONE CRAFTING skill is enough and authentic! It should be impossible to get more than an amateur level status in (crafting) skills other than the main profession. I've never met someone how is a perfect carpenter and also a perfect smith ... this seems impossible for me.

Tanistian_Kanea · Post by **Tanistian_Kanea** » Mon May 28, 2007 5:36 pm

for above very true. though not amature higher, journeyman tops though.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Tue May 29, 2007 1:39 am

Rosendil wrote:As already suggested, simply don't allow those multi-skilled perfect characters ... ONE CRAFTING skill is enough and authentic! It should be impossible to get more than an amateur level status in (crafting) skills other than the main profession. I've never met someone how is a perfect carpenter and also a perfect smith ... this seems impossible for me.

So blacksmiths couldn't mine and carpenters couldn't lumberjack effectively anymore, your system sucks already. Even WoW allows 2 main professions. Limiting skills is just not the Illa way.

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Tue May 29, 2007 3:35 am

Gro'bul wrote:
Rosendil wrote:As already suggested, simply don't allow those multi-skilled perfect characters ... ONE CRAFTING skill is enough and authentic! It should be impossible to get more than an amateur level status in (crafting) skills other than the main profession. I've never met someone how is a perfect carpenter and also a perfect smith ... this seems impossible for me.
So blacksmiths couldn't mine and carpenters couldn't lumberjack effectively anymore, your system sucks already. Even WoW allows 2 main professions. Limiting skills is just not the Illa way.

How big shall he write it next time?
ressourcengathering =/= crafting

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Tue May 29, 2007 5:48 am

Eh, I was just going off this:

He should be more descriptive then.