gem grinding...

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:47 am

i think gem grinding is waaaaay to hard, cmon gems are supposed to be rare, they arent too rare but it takes way to much to move a mm of stat, if you dont already have the skill before the 10x system, you pretty much have no real chance at cutting gems or gold smithing for that matter

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:50 am

I believe the gem grinding skill came about at the same time as the skill difficulty change. No one had much chance to 'max out' the skill before it became more difficult. If you find it to hard, buy rings, or get other people to grind the gems. Think about this "Oh dear! I need a wedding ring, I best go outside to the trusty gem grinder and make one!".

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:54 am

Yes, gemgrinding was introduced *after* the 10x skill change.

Not everyone should be excpected to become gemgrinders.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:36 am

well i didnt know that

but it still is quite hard

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:38 am

If, in RL, I gave you a huge box of gems and the appropiate tools for gem grinding in real life, how many gems would you be able to successfully grind?
I bet not a single one.
Gem grinding is a profession which depends on a lot of knowledge about physical laws (crystal structures, light diffraction,...), patience and intuitive feeling.
Few people are actually born for such a profession. And even the most skilled gem grinder can destroy a gem with a single false hit.

Sir Giandor · Post by **Sir Giandor** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 9:45 am

I grinded now more than 2000 gems. And it would be fair that it is so hard. The harder skill system is god for chosing a job. There wouldn´t be gemgrinders who can goldsmithing at the same time. No the grinders buying the raw gems, the cutted sale them to the smiths.

Its absolutely perfect.

Shi Long · Post by **Shi Long** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 4:25 pm

Exactly my opinion Adano and Giandor.

I have cut now more than xxxx (many) gems and i became much better now. (the skill is rising very slow, bur if you have enough raw gems and patience... you know.

)

By the way, i cut the gems for you if you want...

Ask for me: "Shi Long"

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 8:45 pm

why does everyone always bring Real life into things? "In real life..." and stuff like that....this isn't real life, if it was there would only be one race, and there wouldn't be any monsters, I dont see the purpose for the drive to realism

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 10:08 pm

Now that i think about it... Fooser is right!

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 10:13 pm

Of course paul

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 10:53 pm

But i'm smarter than him and my opinion is:

If you are a bum, and you suddenly get a job as a shoe smith, you will have no clue what to do. Your first ten will be horrible. Then the next ten will be better, and the next ten better, etc. So, after making 100 shoes, the bum will be very good. That is how it should work with all skillz.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 10:54 pm

you know all about being a bum, dont you Paul?

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 10:56 pm

I learned when i read your biography

Kringin · Post by **Kringin** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 3:22 am

These things I always tell everyone all the time but noone listens, Real Life this and in Real Life that.. screw real life, a game is to escape the real world not to encounter it in another way. This has always been the basis for games ever since the beginning and you know its true.

Gem Grinding is very hard, Period.

))Things That Happen And Are Quite Stupid((
It would be the same to keep grinding gems to gain skill to be consideed PowerGaming. But some cover it up as a profession. Well since one of my chars. --for example-- is a mage I cast fires all day as my profession to be one of the best, right? Nope people are just stubborn as always even if I start casting a few spells ( which is usualy last no more than 5-10 minutes) they start telling me that I am Power Gaming. This is Pure Bull.

Have a nice day.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 3:24 am

Amen, brother!

Crosis · Post by **Crosis** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 4:46 am

I agree Kringin, and its not just gem grinding that can be considered powergaming, dont miners and blacksmiths repeat the same thing over and over?

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 5:01 am

You dont make money off of being a mage.. therefore it isnt really a profession.. The reason that magery is considered powergaming is because it is a method of fighting... if you are an evil pk bastard, arent you going to try and master all your magic skills as soon as possible? This is considered powergaming to protect your ass from PKs, making it a legitimate reason for banning.... you cant kill someone with money.

Crosis · Post by **Crosis** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 5:15 am

Hrm you do have a good point Cain.

Caranthir the great · Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:57 am

You cant kill someone with money.

Oh, really? Have you perhaps tried?

You can't supposedly kill anyone DIRECTLY with money, but indirectly that is possible.
But then on the other hand, you will lose your money.

I agree Kringin, and its not just gem grinding that can be considered powergaming, dont miners and blacksmiths repeat the same thing over and over?

If you are doing blacksmithing, mining, woodcutting, gemgrinding, ect. as your profession or job, then it is not concidered as powergaming.

Well since one of my chars. --for example-- is a mage I cast fires all day as my profession to be one of the best, right? Nope people are just stubborn as always even if I start casting a few spells ( which is usualy last no more than 5-10 minutes) they start telling me that I am Power Gaming. This is Pure Bull.

I have to agree with Cain here, This is not a valid profession.

Kringin · Post by **Kringin** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 9:24 pm

Gem Grinding is very hard, Period.
----------------------------------------
Well I do not want to carry this discussion too far in this current topic.
so... I will finish it off right here.

Well you really consider someone who does one skill all day in order to be a master not a powergamer(e.g. Gem grinding)? Then the definition of a powergaming is contradicted by you Caranthir.
Those who seem to say "I dont power game" easily seem to be powergamers. And Cain you seem to be always metioning the old phrase" if you try to gain your skills as soon as possible then you are a powergamer" well I already had gained my skills upto a certain point to where i wont fail to cast that certain spell but death is part that plays the most important role.
Magery is a profession as also a part of roleplaying, and to relieve your stress Cain I am not a PK Bastard; I am Pk hunter and a fisherman. It is so because PK hunting is really fun and I get to kill people with a reason and it is justice. Magery may be a war skill but it also protects the weaker from the brutal. If there are no fighters around and a outlaw gang just pops in town and starts to slay people well we need someone who is good in magic if there are no fighters around.

If you're afraid to mention to how you can kill with money Caranthir then I will tell you one way, Mercenary.

That about tops it off.

Have a nice day.

Caranthir the great · Sat Feb 01, 2003 10:05 pm

Who is afraid to mention anything?
I just thought that vast majority of people would perhaps be able to figure out some of the ways to kill indirectly with money.

Magery is a profession as also a part of roleplaying, and to relieve your stress Cain I am not a PK Bastard; I am Pk hunter and a fisherman. It is so because PK hunting is really fun and I get to kill people with a reason and it is justice. Magery may be a war skill but it also protects the weaker from the brutal. If there are no fighters around and a outlaw gang just pops in town and starts to slay people well we need someone who is good in magic if there are no fighters around

I hope that you realize, that 'PK' or 'PKing' is not a valid word when talking in character. PK's are those, at least in my opinion, who break the game rules. People who kill by the rules, should be called murderers, not PK's.

Magery may be a war skill but it also protects the weaker from the brutal.

And it also helps the brutal to beat the weak even more.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 10:55 pm

Kringin:

Pk's are not supposed to be handled as in character players. They are to be considered people who defy the laws of the game and therefore must have action taken against them by GM's. It isnt your place to kill PK's, therefore you do not have the justification for calling "PK hunting" a profession, which is insinuated by what you say. Magery is not a profession. Professions are a means of acquiring payment for your services.

Kringin · Post by **Kringin** » Sun Feb 02, 2003 1:52 am

Hello, PK (Player Killer), not law defiers they are killers, or in RPG terms outlaws who hate people. Get a clue. Cain , Cain , Cain my friend a profession does not have to result in making money.

I know I was pretty darn sure about what a profession meant and I knew that a profession is something that you have to learn and go through all your life to be pretty darn good at it. And to be perfectly sure I checked my trusty dictionary.

--------------------------------------------------------
uhh and I still think gemgrinding is way too hard.
--------------------------------------------------------

Have a day.

Caranthir the great · Sun Feb 02, 2003 10:51 am

Still, In character there is no such thing as PK.

Grishnak Bloodlust · Post by **Grishnak Bloodlust** » Sun Feb 02, 2003 11:04 am

You cant kill someone with money

Yes you can, it is possible, time for a history lesson:

Ages ago, like in medieval times, glass was only for the rich, so in pubs they had wooden mugs to serve beer, as if they were broken they were easily, and cheaply replaced. Some people got jealous of some dude buying their house and jacking up the rent, so they took him to a pub, after a few glasses one of the persons distracted the landlord and while the other dropped a small penny in his wooden mug. The landlord swigged from the mug and the penny lodged down his throat, he choked to death, and died!! But then lots of people were using this method of killing someone, causeing paranoia about pubs, disaster!! SO some smart guy made a mug that had a glass bottom, that way the penny would sink to the bottom, like usual, but the water somehow held the penny to the bottom piece of glass, hurrah!

So people were once killed by money! And it's all true, people killed other people by putting pennies in other people's mugs, and a glass bottom was made to prevent it. I did improvise with the story though, I just like a nice tale.

Kringin · Post by **Kringin** » Sun Feb 02, 2003 9:45 pm

Hello, PK (Player Killer), not law defiers they are killers, or in RPG terms outlaws who hate people.

Caranthir I had said OUTLAWS, listen carefully.

And also in the past the Inca or one of those tribes poured gold down the Spaniard's throat to kill his greed for gold.

Burin · Post by **Burin** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 6:46 am

It seems to me that the gem grinding skill is a good thing. I have noticed how some can get a very large amount of raw gems at one time. If I were to grind my gems, I would have a lot of cut gems. Since I cannot get cut gems as well as I used to, I work harder. I used to have about twelve cut gems and stop. I thought, "My work is done." Now that I cannot do that, I look in my bag and notice the very small amount of raw gems. After looking at that I say, "I think I need to practice cutting gems."

Now I work harder instead of getting twelve raw gems cutting them and saying, "Ok, I just made twelve rings I think that is enough." I cut twelve and say, "Hmm, it seems I have three, I should make more." So now because of this skill, I go out and get more, which helps me raise my goldsmithing & my gemgrinding. Also, I think this is more of a challage. However, I do understand how this could be a problem sometimes.

-Randelf

Crocket · Post by **Crocket** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 7:36 am

1) Yes gemgrinding should be a difficult skill that way one person couldn't
become an expert at too many things. Be an expert at one thing and
then we use that to make money to buy from the ones who are
experts at other things. This way we all depend on each other.

2) A mercenary or even an assasin could be considered a profesion.
These people are paid to hunt down animals, monsters, or people.
You would need fighting or magic skills to either kill or trap your prey.
Therefore mages or fighters could be considered a proffesion.
(Isn't a proffesion simply something you do to make money?)

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 8:15 am

a game is to escape the real world not to encounter it in another way. This has always been the basis for games ever since the beginning and you know its true.

Then please explain to me why The Sims is the best selling computergame ever?

I am Pk hunter and a fisherman. It is so because PK hunting is really fun and I get to kill people with a reason and it is justice.

I hardly think that Kringin would be asking any money for his 'Services', Crocket.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 8:37 am

Kringin wrote:Hello, PK (Player Killer), not law defiers they are killers, or in RPG terms outlaws who hate people.

You contradict yourself with that statement when you call them an outlaw and say they are not law defiers. A more accurate term should be one that refers to their specific crime, which in the case of PK, should be a Mass Murderer or a Random Killer.

@profession:What you do to earn your living should be called an occupation, not a profession. In Illarion, a profession should be something that falls under the craftmanship skills category, so it is a skill that creates some kind of product. In spellcasting, there is no product (food spell is the only exception), so if you do it for an extended period of time, you're doing it to raise your skill only and that's powergaming. There's no exact standard of how long is "an extended time", so it's up to the GM to decide and if a GM happens to decide that you did it for too long, then that's too bad.

a game is to escape the real world not to encounter it in another way. This has always been the basis for games ever since the beginning and you know its true.

No, the basis of games is entertainment, and what constitutes as entertainment depends on what type of game it is. Illarion is a game where the entertainment comes from roleplaying, and that entails that things are realistic from your character's point of view, which in this case is a medieval fantasy character.