My name is Narmez. I've not played Illa much in the past months...partly for reasons dealing with the game itself, partly with real life becoming busy. Anyway, that's not what this post is for. I'm part of a group called the ESQS. It's a player group with staff overview that is meant to allow some players to develop and host quests and events meant for the general enjoyment of the ingame community.
I very much enjoy being a part of this group. Some of you may remember a few things I have done...most of them dealing with bunnies. I like bunnies. I also enjoy getting feedback and feeling like I have contributed to the ingame atmosphere a bit.
This morning I got up, looked at the forums for the first time in awhile, and thought a bit. I have been on and off wanting to return to Illarion for some time. I noticed today was April 1st...also known as April Fool's Day. A day for fun and jokes. An idea came to mind. Those who were ingame earlier today most likely saw the results.
My quest was meant to be a joke, and essentially something fun. I understand that some people thought it was a bit forced and I see your views, and for that I apologize. I kept the event centered on a relatively small part of the game map to make participation avoidable. I basically turned everyone in sight into a rabbit, but this could have easily been undone by simply logging out and staying away from the area I was in. From what I saw, people were enjoying this for the most part, so I continued. It seems some are of the opinion that I got a little carried away. Maybe I did, but it was all in good fun with good intentions. No players were harmed at all. When I saw that people acting openly annoyed with the happenings, I ended the event.
The point I wish to make is this: I wanted to give you guys a bit of fun and a few laughs. I personally laughed quite a bit during the entire quest. I understand that some of you did not have fun, and I am sorry for that, but overall this has no reason to have made any great impact on anyone. In fact, I wouldn't mind if all involved characters forgot the scenario completely, or thought of it as a coincidental dream.
If you're still annoyed for whatever reason, I welcome you to contact me so that I might avoid whatever it is I did in future quests. Feedback of any kind is always great and helps us quest creators a lot, but know that it is incredibly discouraging when people seem angry about something that was intended as fun, so please be careful with your tone. Thank you, and have a cookie.
The World isn't ready for World Rabbitation
Moderator: Gamemasters
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Pia Dandelion
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As already discussed during the "Plague"-Quest it is a thin line you walk as a GM. There is nothing you can do to please all players.
The best way would be to ask the player for permission if you want to "force" something on him. But I guess this would take away some of the atmosphere. Another way would be to allow players to "leave" the quest anytime they want, but this would limit the content of a quest.
There is no easy way in or out when doing a quest. Sorry, but that's all I can suggest.
But be assured that usually the players appreciate the effort you put into a quest even if they are complaining.
The best way would be to ask the player for permission if you want to "force" something on him. But I guess this would take away some of the atmosphere. Another way would be to allow players to "leave" the quest anytime they want, but this would limit the content of a quest.
There is no easy way in or out when doing a quest. Sorry, but that's all I can suggest.
But be assured that usually the players appreciate the effort you put into a quest even if they are complaining.
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Keikan Hiru
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Re: The World isn't ready for World Rabbitation
See, thats a problem.Narmir wrote:[...],but this could have easily been undone by simply logging out and staying away from the area I was in.
I am completly aware, more then others, that its simply impossible to make everybody happy with your decissions, but when you approach a matter with that idea from the very beginning, something is wrong.
I tend to log out when I see Damiens Quests running, because I know he is forcing me into a situation I, the player, will not like. Leaving me only with one option of logging out and wait till its over.
If events make players log out, the event is wrong.
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Damien
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Correcting Keikan's misunderstandings :
1. i supported the quest, but it was an ESQS Quest. Which makes it my responsibility, especially since i joined in the rabbits when the lamp spirit paret was over and also supported or fed the ideas in it, sure. But if all feedback you actually get is positive WHILE running it, there is no visible need to break it off earlier.
2. everyone can walk away from the library roof/tavern/marketplace(shop) and logout AND back in to rechange his appearance (which is what Narmir meant with logging out).
3. If something gets so far that people complain about everything - be it a "serious" quest with monsters or be it a non-violent, free-for-all - fun-thing on april fool's day - then something is wrong too. A little humor now and then (and be it on a few days in the year) isn't a bad thing.
1. i supported the quest, but it was an ESQS Quest. Which makes it my responsibility, especially since i joined in the rabbits when the lamp spirit paret was over and also supported or fed the ideas in it, sure. But if all feedback you actually get is positive WHILE running it, there is no visible need to break it off earlier.
2. everyone can walk away from the library roof/tavern/marketplace(shop) and logout AND back in to rechange his appearance (which is what Narmir meant with logging out).
3. If something gets so far that people complain about everything - be it a "serious" quest with monsters or be it a non-violent, free-for-all - fun-thing on april fool's day - then something is wrong too. A little humor now and then (and be it on a few days in the year) isn't a bad thing.
Last edited by Damien on Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think there was absolutely nothing wrong with that Quest and there is absolutely no need to start to accuse anyone of having done a bad Quest or forced RP or whatever.
The Quest was limited to a certain part of Troll's Bane. There were (funny) server messages, so most people should have been informed that there is a Quest going on.
There always was the opportunity for Players to not attend this Quest, either by avoiding Troll's Bane, leaving TB and relogging or play that the own char runs away (well, the char needed to be quite quick in leaving, I commit).
However, this was a funny April-fool quest, nothing serious, something special which lasted for one afternoon. If you have accepted and actively participated the Quest you had a good time. If you do not like such loony Quest, TB was for 5 or 6 hours the wrong place for you on Gobiath.
Thanks to the staff for having done this Quest - I'm off now to search for the best armor in the world
The Quest was limited to a certain part of Troll's Bane. There were (funny) server messages, so most people should have been informed that there is a Quest going on.
There always was the opportunity for Players to not attend this Quest, either by avoiding Troll's Bane, leaving TB and relogging or play that the own char runs away (well, the char needed to be quite quick in leaving, I commit).
However, this was a funny April-fool quest, nothing serious, something special which lasted for one afternoon. If you have accepted and actively participated the Quest you had a good time. If you do not like such loony Quest, TB was for 5 or 6 hours the wrong place for you on Gobiath.
Thanks to the staff for having done this Quest - I'm off now to search for the best armor in the world
At the end of the day Narmir, to get by we just have to think of things we think the players will find fun. And do them.
You can never win in some people's eyes, so you literally have to ignore the criticism and plow ahead regardless. I'm sure a lot of people enjoyed the quest, and its for them that we do it.
I'm sorry to dig up something long dead and buried. And please please don't make it turn into a Temple discussion again.
But with the Temple quest, most of the players that were involved considered its time as the best time they have ever spent in illa. However it is probably the most moaned about quest in history, but I kept going because the quest wasn't for the people who moaned, it was for the people who were really enjoying it.
You can't ever please everyone, so just please those you can as much as possible.
You can never win in some people's eyes, so you literally have to ignore the criticism and plow ahead regardless. I'm sure a lot of people enjoyed the quest, and its for them that we do it.
I'm sorry to dig up something long dead and buried. And please please don't make it turn into a Temple discussion again.
But with the Temple quest, most of the players that were involved considered its time as the best time they have ever spent in illa. However it is probably the most moaned about quest in history, but I kept going because the quest wasn't for the people who moaned, it was for the people who were really enjoying it.
You can't ever please everyone, so just please those you can as much as possible.
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Keikan Hiru
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Blinded by pride we pull forward, ignoring the casualties left and right.
Eh?
I fully agree, that you can pat yourself on your shoulder, just for undertaking the affort to entertain other players. You fully deserve it.
But, and this is a huge but, I wouldn't be so bold to ignore critism.
Everytime you force players to participate in your events you will alienate a good handful of them, because they simply don't want to. Regardless if its 1st april or not. I know it.
If you are not allowing players to choose at any given "entry point" of your quest/event to participate or not, you'll do something wrong in my eyes.
I learned it.
Changing players race, may it only be temporary, is a toy the Questers should be more careful about.
And since repetition is the key to memorization:
Making a player log out to avoid your event, or to negate the effects you brought upon his/her char is a big No-No.
Eh?
I fully agree, that you can pat yourself on your shoulder, just for undertaking the affort to entertain other players. You fully deserve it.
But, and this is a huge but, I wouldn't be so bold to ignore critism.
Everytime you force players to participate in your events you will alienate a good handful of them, because they simply don't want to. Regardless if its 1st april or not. I know it.
If you are not allowing players to choose at any given "entry point" of your quest/event to participate or not, you'll do something wrong in my eyes.
I learned it.
Changing players race, may it only be temporary, is a toy the Questers should be more careful about.
And since repetition is the key to memorization:
Making a player log out to avoid your event, or to negate the effects you brought upon his/her char is a big No-No.
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Damien
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That makes it sound as if bringing a temporal effect which can EASILY be undone by the player himself (logging out and then in again) would be as bad as instant-death-ing everyone on sight.
There will always be different opinions about things. And some people have forgotten that the goal of a game is to make fun for everyone. And if the three to four hours of the un-serious fun thing was too much for some players (who could have walked around it anyway), and we STILL have several players who would have wanted to participate but were unable because they could not log in early enough, there are again two opposing positions every GM or QUester has to somehow combine.
Lately, illarion has become less about fun and more about skills and robbing each other. This april day thing was a very good opportunity to bring back some unharmful fun (even if i had to ban a rabbit who was repeatedly attacking other players). That is one main reason why many old players as well as several staff members did leave : The game was no FUN for them anymore.
The first mistake you can make in a game is in taking it for too serious. You will get angry about it, you will take things personally, and in the end you will bitch about everything that just goes different than you expected and make other participents in the game (players, NPCs and GMs) frustrated and angry themselves. Yesterday, i was scolded in a very immature and arrogant manner just because someone found that the RABBITS were "badly RPed" and because the thing was too long in the view of a few people. (And do you think that ANYONE !gm-ed about it ? Nope.)
And if illarion is staying like this, then there's no fun in it. But the sense of a game is to have some fun and not to bitch against each other.
The worst thing is to bitch around at someone else who has nothing to do with the thing, and not say a single WORD to those running the happenings. Anyhow, it will be a very long time until i will support any type of event for this community again. It's just too stressful to do it, there may be some fun involved when planning and executing, but the crap on the boards and on instant messengers which often comes after is not worth the effort anymore.
There will always be different opinions about things. And some people have forgotten that the goal of a game is to make fun for everyone. And if the three to four hours of the un-serious fun thing was too much for some players (who could have walked around it anyway), and we STILL have several players who would have wanted to participate but were unable because they could not log in early enough, there are again two opposing positions every GM or QUester has to somehow combine.
Lately, illarion has become less about fun and more about skills and robbing each other. This april day thing was a very good opportunity to bring back some unharmful fun (even if i had to ban a rabbit who was repeatedly attacking other players). That is one main reason why many old players as well as several staff members did leave : The game was no FUN for them anymore.
The first mistake you can make in a game is in taking it for too serious. You will get angry about it, you will take things personally, and in the end you will bitch about everything that just goes different than you expected and make other participents in the game (players, NPCs and GMs) frustrated and angry themselves. Yesterday, i was scolded in a very immature and arrogant manner just because someone found that the RABBITS were "badly RPed" and because the thing was too long in the view of a few people. (And do you think that ANYONE !gm-ed about it ? Nope.)
And if illarion is staying like this, then there's no fun in it. But the sense of a game is to have some fun and not to bitch against each other.
The worst thing is to bitch around at someone else who has nothing to do with the thing, and not say a single WORD to those running the happenings. Anyhow, it will be a very long time until i will support any type of event for this community again. It's just too stressful to do it, there may be some fun involved when planning and executing, but the crap on the boards and on instant messengers which often comes after is not worth the effort anymore.
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Avalyon el'Hattarr
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*cries* such good times.. Best time in illaBut with the Temple quest, most of the players that were involved considered its time as the best time they have ever spent in illa. However it is probably the most moaned about quest in history, but I kept going because the quest wasn't for the people who moaned, it was for the people who were really enjoying it.
Just cos you're too new to remember any other times.Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:*cries* such good times.. Best time in illaBut with the Temple quest, most of the players that were involved considered its time as the best time they have ever spent in illa. However it is probably the most moaned about quest in history, but I kept going because the quest wasn't for the people who moaned, it was for the people who were really enjoying it.
Here's a question raised: Why did the people turn into bunnies? You did this for an april fools joke. An april fools joke is an ooc thing, so therefore turning everyone into bunnies for an ooc joke is mixing ooc and ig and against the rules. This would be acceptable if backed up by a decent rp reason, but what WAS the decent rp reason? Were the gods having a little joke? I wasn't involved with the quest at all but it sounds to me like it hasn't been justified.
So we just let the rules slide then?Damien wrote:Do all things need to be justified on an April Fool's day ? Does fun have to be justified ? What makes a game good, if not a little humor and fun just sometimes ?
So on april fools day how about I viciously murder someone and impale their head upon a stick? It's only bending the rules for april fools day, after all; no big deal.
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abcfantasy
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Is that any fun??AlexRose wrote:So on april fools day how about I viciously murder someone and impale their head upon a stick? It's only bending the rules for april fools day, after all; no big deal.
Relax, why are you taking this soooo serious?? It was one of my funniest moments on illa! It didn't satisfy all players, of course, but if they changed the quest, that would still remain! No use complaining! Please!
To answer your first question: Depends how saddistic you're feeling.abcfantasy wrote:Is that any fun??AlexRose wrote:So on april fools day how about I viciously murder someone and impale their head upon a stick? It's only bending the rules for april fools day, after all; no big deal.
Relax, why are you taking this soooo serious?? It was one of my funniest moments on illa! It didn't satisfy all players, of course, but if they changed the quest, that would still remain! No use complaining! Please!
To answer your second question: It's a serious game; don't you see the problem with an army of rabbits gathering together and trying to take over Troll's Bane? See, a couple of months ago Deinarious made his own little hamster quest which was completely ridiculous, mocked on the off topic board when quoted, and even Nitram got involved, throwing molotovs everywhere. This was something like "Let us never speak of this", because it was such a terrible idea; and then it's duplicated with rabbits by staff? This is RP? Sure it is.
it was really fun.... playing a rabbit... of course, you will have to be in the right place with the right people as well. So... bad luck for the powergamer 
Me and the group i'm with were laughing like nuts XD It was... practically awesome My best moment of illa so far... especially after the last few days where there are nothing else except troubles.... And this one actually beat the 'tickle party' we had... in my opinion :p
Me and the group i'm with were laughing like nuts XD It was... practically awesome My best moment of illa so far... especially after the last few days where there are nothing else except troubles.... And this one actually beat the 'tickle party' we had... in my opinion :p-
abcfantasy
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OMG! ogerawa posted!! 
anyway...i think you're just taking it too serious..it was a one-time..distract abit from all the troubles and stuff going on. It's always a game, not reality! It's meant to have fun. Too much serious things going on can disrupt the fun. I think we needed something like that.
Anyway I'm not posting anymore (or I'll try). It won't change anything with complaints except irritating some people and GMs.
Plus this is fantasy, anything could happen
anyway...i think you're just taking it too serious..it was a one-time..distract abit from all the troubles and stuff going on. It's always a game, not reality! It's meant to have fun. Too much serious things going on can disrupt the fun. I think we needed something like that.
Anyway I'm not posting anymore (or I'll try). It won't change anything with complaints except irritating some people and GMs.
Plus this is fantasy, anything could happen
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Skaalib Drurr
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Damien
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And exactly this is when a GAME looses its fun : When it is taken too SERIOUS. The sense of a game is to be fun. Of course, a game should also have some sense. But there must always be some space for a little humor, and a little ridiculousness sometimes. (We even have a god for that, Nargùn). There is often some hidden wisdom in comedy or humor in general. Life is bad without fun and humor, a game without will be worse than life.AlexRose wrote:...
To answer your second question: It's a serious game; don't you see the problem with an army of rabbits gathering together and trying to take over Troll's Bane?
Here is a link that you should watch, which is about what happens if a game is taken TOO serious : http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid= ... &q=farador
I bet you remember it. And i bet you see the true point (even if a bit overdone to point some things out) in it.
Too much overdone seriousness leads to loosing the real fun in a game. Sometimes, there has to be some fun, even if its a bit ridiculous.
Too few fun-factor leads to fewer roleplayers leads to more engine-players who dont see the fun in roleplaying, but in the engine, in fighting and pwning.
Which leads to the bad parts of the actual ingame situation, and is the reason why many people say "old times were better" without realling putting the finger on what exactly is missing.
Falk did that. Which was, what opened my eyes concerning that - slowly : the FUN is what is lacking.
Just ask around, ask some who barely play or who have left, and the most will say "it's not FUN anymore". Just go and do it.
Damien,
You can't go so far as to blame the *whole* community when a quest malfunctions--at the very least not without admitting that you have a bit of a history of making players angry with your quests. I know this, we've talked about this. And I wasn't lying when I said that I didn't experience the same problem, and Japheth didn't, and the girls didn't, and Estralis didn't, and most GM's just don't experience the same reaction you get.
You have to examine the process and try it differently. Once it is the case that every GM experiences the complaints, then we can say that the community just isn't fun.
-Mitch
You can't go so far as to blame the *whole* community when a quest malfunctions--at the very least not without admitting that you have a bit of a history of making players angry with your quests. I know this, we've talked about this. And I wasn't lying when I said that I didn't experience the same problem, and Japheth didn't, and the girls didn't, and Estralis didn't, and most GM's just don't experience the same reaction you get.
You have to examine the process and try it differently. Once it is the case that every GM experiences the complaints, then we can say that the community just isn't fun.
-Mitch
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Lord Arcia
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The Returner
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Mitch, the community isen't fun though.
People can't take a joke, hell, not even gm's are taking the joke. Why do you guys always have to be such bitchy motherfuckers?
Damien is absolutely right
And by the way, if you think this is a "serious game" you should try playing the game of "Get a life" and staying away from video game addiction, this is how schools get shot up by individuals who can't seperate reality from fiction and must take everything so literal it ruins the fun for everyone else who game exactly for it NOT to be taken seriously.
People can't take a joke, hell, not even gm's are taking the joke. Why do you guys always have to be such bitchy motherfuckers?
Damien is absolutely right
And by the way, if you think this is a "serious game" you should try playing the game of "Get a life" and staying away from video game addiction, this is how schools get shot up by individuals who can't seperate reality from fiction and must take everything so literal it ruins the fun for everyone else who game exactly for it NOT to be taken seriously.
I think you got something wrong, Returner. And maybe others, too.
Taking the game serious does not mean to make the game their lifes for people, but taking the game serious actually means to play a game which is ment to be serious. Illarion is supposed to be, even by its explanation on the homepage, a fantasy game set in a medieval-like time, with great empires (not on Gobiath..), own gods, ancient secrets and so on.
"Taking the game serious" means playing ones charakter serious. You just have to accept that some people have more fun playing their charakters like real, consequent people and don't like to be made fun of by becoming a rabbit (doesn't fit to the role of an inquisitor of a god, does it?). We have two diferent points of view here, and every party seems to think their point of view is the only right one.
An example directly referring to evens that happened here: There were many quests which involved the gods or other powerful things like ghosts. Sometimes, the gods were shown and explained as very serious, mighty and superior. Some other times gods were shown as "funny", mostly cute or absurd. I remember lichs or ghosts being scarey and creating atmosphere like they should, and I remember lichs hunting halflings with a giggle, or ghosts shouting "Shukk, Schurke, Gurke!" (Shukk, rogue, gherkin!)
That is a problem. I sometimes had trouble to imagine what the gods or godly things should be like, which mostly lead to the conclusion that they are nothing but absurd things worth to ignore and to treat with disrespect.
In my eyes, the creators of a game should 'agree' on certain points and behaviours of people or events in the game, so the are consequent. No wonder players have no respect for gods or immortals, because these are making fun of themselves all the time. Every gameworls needs a fix frame.
This, of course, is one point of view and was more generally, though fitting a little to the situation with the rabbits.
I've been playing this game for some time and I know that quests like the rabbit quest were done quite some times, and I personally never liked them much, but also many people liked them. When I saw the speaking rabbit when the quest happened I actually did what was proposed here: I left the scene.
My point actually is, after this try of explanation, that you will never hit the taste of everyone (that was mentioned before, I know) and you have to accept criticism, even if it is harsh. Many also liked the quest.
I hope this brought a little light into the dark. In general, players should not complain about everything, of course, but GM's shouldn't argue with the argument: "You are all addicted people with no lives."
To prevent flaming about myself: I do not like absurd quests much, but I know that others like them, which gives them a right to exist. That's how a community works. Funny quests, yes, but please only in a frame that fits to the game world and its whole atmosphere.
Taking the game serious does not mean to make the game their lifes for people, but taking the game serious actually means to play a game which is ment to be serious. Illarion is supposed to be, even by its explanation on the homepage, a fantasy game set in a medieval-like time, with great empires (not on Gobiath..), own gods, ancient secrets and so on.
"Taking the game serious" means playing ones charakter serious. You just have to accept that some people have more fun playing their charakters like real, consequent people and don't like to be made fun of by becoming a rabbit (doesn't fit to the role of an inquisitor of a god, does it?). We have two diferent points of view here, and every party seems to think their point of view is the only right one.
An example directly referring to evens that happened here: There were many quests which involved the gods or other powerful things like ghosts. Sometimes, the gods were shown and explained as very serious, mighty and superior. Some other times gods were shown as "funny", mostly cute or absurd. I remember lichs or ghosts being scarey and creating atmosphere like they should, and I remember lichs hunting halflings with a giggle, or ghosts shouting "Shukk, Schurke, Gurke!" (Shukk, rogue, gherkin!)
That is a problem. I sometimes had trouble to imagine what the gods or godly things should be like, which mostly lead to the conclusion that they are nothing but absurd things worth to ignore and to treat with disrespect.
In my eyes, the creators of a game should 'agree' on certain points and behaviours of people or events in the game, so the are consequent. No wonder players have no respect for gods or immortals, because these are making fun of themselves all the time. Every gameworls needs a fix frame.
This, of course, is one point of view and was more generally, though fitting a little to the situation with the rabbits.
I've been playing this game for some time and I know that quests like the rabbit quest were done quite some times, and I personally never liked them much, but also many people liked them. When I saw the speaking rabbit when the quest happened I actually did what was proposed here: I left the scene.
My point actually is, after this try of explanation, that you will never hit the taste of everyone (that was mentioned before, I know) and you have to accept criticism, even if it is harsh. Many also liked the quest.
I hope this brought a little light into the dark. In general, players should not complain about everything, of course, but GM's shouldn't argue with the argument: "You are all addicted people with no lives."
To prevent flaming about myself: I do not like absurd quests much, but I know that others like them, which gives them a right to exist. That's how a community works. Funny quests, yes, but please only in a frame that fits to the game world and its whole atmosphere.
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The Returner
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You know what?
The staff of this game have done so much, they've made an english client, they've redone the entire client server code, they've bent over backwards for the community more then once in attempts to try and help it or make it a more enjoyable experience, but as soon as they do something you don't like because you can't stand a joke in a game (an easter egg, if you will) you must find ways to bitch about how it doesen't fit the game world, yet I'm sure if the GM's handed out rare quest items to the first replier with the right answer to a question you'd be perfectly fine with that, even though it doesen't fit.
Get the smile over it, all of you.
The staff of this game have done so much, they've made an english client, they've redone the entire client server code, they've bent over backwards for the community more then once in attempts to try and help it or make it a more enjoyable experience, but as soon as they do something you don't like because you can't stand a joke in a game (an easter egg, if you will) you must find ways to bitch about how it doesen't fit the game world, yet I'm sure if the GM's handed out rare quest items to the first replier with the right answer to a question you'd be perfectly fine with that, even though it doesen't fit.
Get the smile over it, all of you.
Turny, you're like my mother.The Returner wrote:You know what?
The staff of this game have done so much, they've made an english client, they've redone the entire client server code, they've bent over backwards for the community more then once in attempts to try and help it or make it a more enjoyable experience, but as soon as they do something you don't like because you can't stand a joke in a game (an easter egg, if you will) you must find ways to bitch about how it doesen't fit the game world, yet I'm sure if the GM's handed out rare quest items to the first replier with the right answer to a question you'd be perfectly fine with that, even though it doesen't fit.
Get the smile over it, all of you.
Yesterday I had an argument with her; she was A. forcing me to go to bed an hour earlier than usual and B. refusing to let me get supper. The argument went on and eventually she played that vicious card she always does "I'm paying for you to go to a private school, maybe I should just pull you out if you're going to be uncooperative" bull, which makes no sense. You can't just say "You should be grateful blah blah blah" every time we disagree with them. If the police started breaking the law, you wouldn't just say "Well, they've enforced it all this time, so you shouldn't be complaining", would you? It's stupid thinking.
The Returner wrote:You know what?
The staff of this game have done so much, they've made an english client, they've redone the entire client server code, they've bent over backwards for the community more then once in attempts to try and help it or make it a more enjoyable experience, but as soon as they do something you don't like because you can't stand a joke in a game (an easter egg, if you will) you must find ways to bitch about how it doesen't fit the game world, yet I'm sure if the GM's handed out rare quest items to the first replier with the right answer to a question you'd be perfectly fine with that, even though it doesen't fit.
Get the smile over it, all of you.
You didn't even get my point. It's sad that people here are not open for arguments that do NOT contain the word "smile".