Magic.

Sordelka · Post by **Sordelka** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:51 am

Just a small question: Does magic actually work now?

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:26 am

Yes, but you need to aquire a magic teacher in game inorder to learn the rune sets.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:09 pm

And that's not easy, considering most of the teachers have taken all their apprentices. Keep in mind, magic is for patient people. I've been waiting 19 months and can only cast a basic illusion by luck, and now I have a mage teacher we'll do 3 months of theoretical magic before learning some very basic runes.

Cassandra Fjurin · Post by **Cassandra Fjurin** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:59 pm

AlexRose wrote:And that's not easy, considering most of the teachers have taken all their apprentices. Keep in mind, magic is for patient people. I've been waiting 19 months and can only cast a basic illusion by luck, and now I have a mage teacher we'll do 3 months of theoretical magic before learning some very basic runes.

This is the reason why i think that magic sucks and things should be changed.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:00 pm

Cassandra Fjurin wrote:
AlexRose wrote:And that's not easy, considering most of the teachers have taken all their apprentices. Keep in mind, magic is for patient people. I've been waiting 19 months and can only cast a basic illusion by luck, and now I have a mage teacher we'll do 3 months of theoretical magic before learning some very basic runes.
This is the reason why i think that magic sucks and things should be changed.

Lol, I don't, simply because I'll be really pissed off at 19 wasted months

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:01 pm

There was/is a quite interesting-looking discussion going on in german. Would someone like so summarize that?

Sordelka · Post by **Sordelka** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:14 pm

If I could understand German...
But I think that magic in this game is very representative of what it should be. Long, painful and difficult to learn!

pharse · Post by **pharse** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:35 pm

the discussion is about the current magic system, especially that you can learn magic only with a teacher. This results in a very elitist system with only a few magicians.

So there was a proposal to make the access to magic free for all / more simple e.g. with NPC quests.

Two positions:
-Illarion, a world where magic is very rare, mystical and special, only few people are able to use it

-Illarion, a world where magic is omnipresent, nearly everyone can use it, but only a few can master it.

arguments:
-newbs' responsibility for magic?
-magic should remain a mystical thing. if everyone uses it, it becomes ridiculous
-system remains elitist, but all other professions should be adapted
-new magic system: "elemental powers" ->every magician can only cast spells related to his element (e.g. no fire mage can cast water spells)
-you can learn simple spells by a certain point, then you need a teacher for the more powerful spells

and some more...

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:44 pm

Couldn't the noob-problem be solved with the same manner as it is solved with special races? That you would have to "apply" for a mage?

pharse · Post by **pharse** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:45 pm

Mr. Cromwell wrote:Couldn't the noob-problem be solved with the same manner as it is solved with special races? That you would have to "apply" for a mage?

already suggested

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:50 pm

Damn you efficient germans..

Sordelka · Post by **Sordelka** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:54 pm

But ask yourself a question,
what happens if no teachers are left in that world? And how did these teachers actually learn their magic, if there were no teachers in the beginning?

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:58 pm

pharse wrote:-Illarion, a world where magic is omnipresent, nearly everyone can use it, but only a few can master it. [Agreed, though maybe a little less than "nearly everyone".]
-magic should remain a mystical thing. if everyone uses it, it becomes ridiculous [Agreed]
-new magic system: "elemental powers" ->every magician can only cast spells related to his element (e.g. no fire mage can cast water spells) [Agreed]
-you can learn simple spells by a certain point, then you need a teacher for the more powerful spells [Disagreed - I think this would result in many people using it anytime and when not necessary]

pharse · Post by **pharse** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:01 pm

Sordelka wrote:And how did these teachers actually learn their magic, if there were no teachers in the beginning?

Gods.

Djironnyma · Post by **Djironnyma** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:02 pm

Sordelka wrote:what happens if no teachers are left in that world?

I play illa since 5 years, one of the teachers even longer,.... that will not happen

Sordelka wrote:And how did these teachers actually learn their magic, if there were no teachers in the beginning?

1. From there teachers
or
2. So long ago that there was other ways to learn Magic

Mar Shadowsong · Post by **Mar Shadowsong** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:15 pm

There used to be an academy, wich was run by mages from Salkamar and such, from far away.
Don't know exactly where they went though, after some recieved magic.

And well, originally the gods just made it happen, don't ask about such things or Nitram wil make you dissapear.

And those magic teachers might leave in time, or their story may end, but they will likely have a few apprentices able to teach.
And if it would go wrong, a few 'quest char mages' could pop up and teach a few people again, and renew the cycle.

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong?

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:28 pm

I agree with the mage's element idea, but disagree with the omniprescence.

Sordelka · Post by **Sordelka** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:37 pm

Wow
By the way, can anyone suggest me a good gnome name? My character got rejected twice...

Back to magic discussion.
Let's say I know elements for one rune that I need to give to the ghost...Can I without a teacher?

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:56 pm

I think you'd have to discuss that privately with some of the gm's

As for me, kinda oposite of Alex really.
I agree that Magic would be always present, but if everyone got even basic magic easely, everyone'd be casting fireballs, and it wouldn't be special anymore.
So basicly, 'smart people'(Those with a magic total of 30 or above) may sense it's there, but would need to be taught to be able to use it.

And elemental magic, I think their should be the possibility of a mage learning spells of each element, not all mages, in my eyes atleast, should be interested in only 1 element. There would be mages that study several elements, it would be the same as battlemages, they do both fighting and magic, but will never be the best mages, nor the best fighters.
With lower magic, higher fighting may comprimise, in striking down mages once you do get closeby. And with lower fighting, they could strike another fighter from afar and weaken him, before they meet in meelee.

Same with magic, as water magic can cancel out fire magic.
Also with this I would suggest splitting magic resistance into seperate resistances per element.

It'd be like building a tower out of lego.
1 element mages wouldn't have such a wide tower, but a higher one.
They can always, if they want to, try to work on widening that tower.
Those who practice several elements would have a wider, but shorter tower.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:59 pm

Sordelka wrote:Wow
By the way, can anyone suggest me a good gnome name? My character got rejected twice...

Back to magic discussion.
Let's say I know elements for one rune that I need to give to the ghost...Can I without a teacher?

O_o

What ghost?

Cassandra Fjurin · Post by **Cassandra Fjurin** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:23 pm

ok i try to explain my idea of the element circle here again in english

the elements are in a circle

Code: Select all


          fire
death         air

earth          live
        water

the neighbours of your favourite element can you cast good, the opposite of your element really bad. But this only starts to count really if you are in higher skills. So you can learn each element a bit an have a wider area on spell, or you master in one element, can cast the neighbour elements rather good but you are very week in the opponents element.

The learning would be so.... you start with one rune in your favourite element. Everytime you cast this element (Maybe also by theorethical learning) you increase in this element. Later runes will be available if your skill is high enough, but to get the master runes in one element you have to visit a teacher.

But you can't master opposite elements. So you can't be a master fire and water mage.

So the magic is all open. But the really high ranks in the element are only for those who really like to rp a master magican but the magic itself and most common spells are open for all.

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:30 pm

To be fair, the current magical theory is bollocks. The current system is unbalanced and buggy. And it really needs to go.

However I personally don't like the elemental idea either. I want to be able to play a mage that has a good control over magic, not one who has a good control over fire/water etc.

But, whatever.

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:32 pm

I'd have to agree with Silas and Nalzie mostly, it should make some difference wether you controle all types of magic, or not, but not as much as you state it I think.
Learning some about all kinds of magic would obviously take more time, but I do not think it should be impossible.

the magic itself and most common spells are open for all.

I assume you mean all above 30 total magic stats?

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:41 pm

I have an awesome and new idea....Eliza should sell rune books for 200 coins each!

Cassandra Fjurin · Post by **Cassandra Fjurin** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:05 pm

ok the most people are against the element circle idea.... so no reason to worry about.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:21 pm

I think it'd be good if a mage could either become a specialist in an element or one of all areas. Say, a fire mage would be able to cast:

.Very strong fire spells
.Strong death spells
.Average air spells
.Average earth spells
.Weak life spells
.Dire water spells

And a water mage would be able to cast:

.Very strong water spells
.Strong life spells
.Average earth spells
.Average air spells
.Weak death spells
.Dire fire spells

As Cassandra posted, but maybe that's reworked to fit all runes in.

Then there could be non-specialist mages who have

.Average water spells
.Average life spells
.Average earth spells
.Average air spells
.Average death spells
.Average fire spells

So the scale would be like Dire, weak, average, strong, very strong.

Then they could have values if you can imagine: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

So you have basically 18 points to spend as in the examples above.

So you could sort of mix match with:
.Very Strong fire spells
.Very Strong ice spells
.Very Strong life spells
.Dire air spells
.Dire death spells
.Dire earth spells

Then if a mage has assigned themselves to an attribute, they would have strengths and weaknesses.

.Ra spells would be strong against ice mages but weak against water mages (this way you could bring CUN in as a more useful rune). It would be normal against all the other types of magic.

.Hept spells would be strong against ice mages but weak against fire mages. It would be normal against all the other types of magic.

.Cun spells would be strong against fire mages, but weak against ice mages. It would be normal against all the other types of magic.

So each type of spell would be strong against a type of magic, weak against another and normal against the rest, a bit like pokemon.

THIS IS WHERE THE BETTER SUGGESTION COMES, FOLKS!

As I said, the categories above could probably be improved, and a higher amount would probably have to be introduced. Or there could be a sort of:

Put points into the following categories. 12 points to spend.

.Necromancy.
.Elemental.
.Healing.
.Other.

E.g. they could make their char useless at healing and great at necromancy. Or extremely powerful as an elementalist.
Then the rest divide into categories.

Necromancy - Undead/Creatures
Elemental - Fire/Water/Ice/Earth/Air/Light/Dark
Healing - Shielding/Health healing/Food healing/Status effect healing
Other - Creation (e.g. walls)/Transportation (e.g. teleporting, pushing etc.) and the like

None would mean the character uses all types.

Then, let's take Elemental magic for example. Your character could choose an element or choose not to.

So then:

Fire - Very strong against ice. Strong against air. Weak against Earth. Very weak against water and fire. Normal against light and dark.

Water - Very strong against fire. Strong against Earth. Weak against light. Very weak against Ice and water. Normal against air and dark.

Ice - Very strong against water. Strong against Light. Weak against dark. Very weak against fire and ice. Normal against earth and air.

Air - Very strong against Earth. Strong against dark. Weak against fire. Very weak against dark and air. Normal against water and light.

Earth - Very strong against light. Strong against fire. Weak against
water. Very weak against air and earth. Normal against ice and dark.

Light - Very strong against dark. Strong against water. Weak against ice. Very weak against earth and light. Normal against fire and air.

Dark - Very strong against air. Strong against ice. Weak against air. Very weak against light and dark. Normal against earth and fire.

None - Normal against all.

Benefits of selecting an element: Your character's magic would get stronger in that area, they could defeat mages of certain element more easily and they would be able to easily absorb hits of certain elements.

Losses of selecting an element: Your character's magic would get weaker in the opposite area, they could be defeated mages of certain elements more easily and they would be more subject to hits of certain elements.

The more points put into elemental magic, the stronger it is.

or for specialists in Necromancy:

Undead - Can summon higher ranks like demon skeletons. If high enough points into necromancy can even summon demons.

Creatures - Can summon higher ranks like trolls. If high enough points put into necromancy can even golems... or like... I dunno, but something strong.

None - Can summon lower ranks of both like mummies and wolves. If high enough points put into necromancy can even summon demon skeletons and trolls.

You see where I'm going with this.

Cassandra Fjurin · Post by **Cassandra Fjurin** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:19 pm

this is a really good proposal.... i really really really like it, i hope this will go on.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:29 pm

Cassandra Fjurin wrote:this is a really good proposal.... i really really really like it, i hope this will go on.

^^

I've asked 12 people to look at it, only Nalzaxx didn't like it so far.

Gabon Corad · Post by **Gabon Corad** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:31 pm

aye im with cassy...this sounds like a very good system except the thing being we will have tons of magic users...i know it was sugested a wile ago and i agree with it is use it like the special chars...have the people request for the chars...other wise great idea

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:33 pm

Gabon Corad wrote:aye im with cassy...this sounds like a very good system except the thing being we will have tons of magic users...i know it was sugested a wile ago and i agree with it is use it like the special chars...have the people request for the chars...other wise great idea

Did I put at any point:

Everyone will have access to magic.

?

Hint: I didn't