A new Forum thread for businesses?

[Juniper Onyx]

I don't know where this goes, so I'll try here,

I would like to see a new forum 'Topic' on the main page just for businesses and services by players. There are more buildings being built and more people wanting to start a business or promote their services.

Without advertising, word of mouth ingame really hinders a player economy. It hard to find who you need as it is. There is no ingame "Message" system.

What we need is a Forum Topic dedicated to businesses and player services. (Not Guilds and not RPG) It should be easy to add, and would just require a moderator and some rules.

A plyer-run "business" would have a physical location (Building-built, owned, or rented), pay all licenses & taxes to the local town, and be able to hire/fire staff, post prices, negotiate with customers, arrange delivery and post their hours of operation. Towns could also post taxes due, bills and other notices to those businesses. It could be owned by a single person or several people. (It takes 4 to be a guild, and many guilds aren't really businesses anyway) It would really help make businesses more of an RP element than they are.
Examples:
Fluffy Sheep Tavern (prices and hours of operation, etc.)
Seahorse Inn (prices, hours and room availabilty, etc.)
Trollsbane Hospital (Services offered, suggested donation, etc.)
Greenbriar Hospital
etc.
(We could leave NPC's out since they are part of exploring the game anyways)

A 'Service' is simply something a player does that he wants people to know about and get jobs.
Examples:
Lumberjack needs job. Will work for food, contact "player".
I make rings for many occasions. See "player".
"Player" has 250 grain to sell for 1 copper each, who needs them?
"Player" am the best Bard in the land. I will work for "2 silvers" and hour. Contact me for your special event.
etc.

I believe by providing a single place for Businesses and Services, it will really help toward creating a 'player' economy and allow more trade between players.

What do you all think?

~PO Dusty Bottoms

[U/\/known]

I freakin' love this idea.

Edit:

It'd help alot of players in the starting of businesses seeming as they need 4 to be a guild and a business needs only 1.

[Skaalib Drurr]

I couldnt agree more, I think it more than a little stupid that you cannot advertise any wares unless you belong to a trade guild, which there are virtually none of, which is not only not realistic, it hinders a player economy.
Whilst we are at it, why not remove NPC's also eventually? Evryone knows they are rip-off merchants, so not many buy from or sell to them (except when they have goods no-one else wants), which makes their existance a little ridiculous. I say just phase them out, little by little.

[Juniper Onyx]

If we can get a player economy going, we could phase out the NPC's, but we would still need some way of bringing silver and coppers 'into' the game as well as out of it.

No one makes silver coins you know.

[Pellandria]

...
Whilst we are at it, why not remove NPC's also eventually? Evryone knows they are rip-off merchants, so not many buy from or sell to them (except when they have goods no-one else wants), which makes their existance a little ridiculous. I say just phase them out, little by little.

I disagree, next to monsters, merchants are the only source of money, you cut them down and everyone will need to depend on monster dropping gold, because you also loose money constantly because people leave or you are killed and your things rot its not that good.

The idea itself is rally good, missing these things in the game, because you always need to run around and ask someone to get your stuff, maybe we could even include some npc's in the shop itself, so the player don't need to wait there, but that would be some programming, to let player controll npc's (giving them prices and stock up their storage)

[Juniper Onyx]

I wanted to keep programming anything out of the idea for now. This idea is a workable and very easy thing to do. Let's not make more work for our developers just now. : )

[U/\/known]

If we can get a player economy going, we could phase out the NPC's, but we would still need some way of bringing silver and coppers 'into' the game as well as out of it.

No one makes silver coins you know.

Without taking it away this could end up happening.

Player 1: So, that comes to, 15 silver?
Player 2: Yes, for the uber sword and the uber armor
Player 1 gives him the money
Player 2 gives him the items
Player 1 tries the armor on and holds the sword
Player 1: Refund please
Player 1 brutally murders Player 2 and steals all of his money.

[Skaalib Drurr]

Indeed, I forgot that fact, perhaps it is better not to then Money should be brought into the game by merchants, although Pellandria, people who kill monsters need weapons; they buy from smith; who needs carpenters to make handles; who need lumberjacks to get logs; who need farmers to plant trees.
And they also need food; they buy from cooks; who need vegetables and fish from fishermen and farmers, and buckets from farmers.
They also need potions; they get these from alchemists; who need people who find herbs, and also need farmers, and carpenters to make buckets, and glassblowers to make bottles.
And in medieval times, money would have been brought in from 'loot' from people winning wars abroad or the like.
And were it not for the expanding player base, and people leaving, there would be no need for more money anyway, the money in circulation could continually circulate. But that is not the case, so I guess my whole post was in vein.

[Juniper Onyx]

"Without taking it away this could end up happening.

Player 1: So, that comes to, 15 silver?
Player 2: Yes, for the uber sword and the uber armor
Player 1 gives him the money
Player 2 gives him the items
Player 1 tries the armor on and holds the sword
Player 1: Refund please
Player 1 brutally murders Player 2 and steals all of his money."


Well, that's where this type of Board would help. Customers could also log complaints and experiences, good or bad. Bad service comes with the territory, but that shouldn't stop the truly good businesses and players from being known. Once a town realizes that a player is killing their customers, I don't think he will be in 'business' very long.

If its a customer doing the killing, then they would be 'marked' by that business to the local town for punishment. It may happen, thats what thieves do...but he wouldn't be able to buy things from anyone else again once the word got out. Businesses must ensure their own safety and security even now.

I don't see it as a real issue, but thanks for the idea.

[Rasteel Olin]

GOod idea.
Creating a new board takes about 4 clicks to whoever runs the forums.
And it could be like a wall somewhere, characters pin their parchment to sell goods.

[Pellandria]

Indeed, I forgot that fact, perhaps it is better not to then Money should be brought into the game by merchants, although Pellandria, people who kill monsters need weapons; they buy from smith; who needs carpenters to make handles; who need lumberjacks to get logs; who need farmers to plant trees.
And they also need food; they buy from cooks; who need vegetables and fish from fishermen and farmers, and buckets from farmers.
They also need potions; they get these from alchemists; who need people who find herbs, and also need farmers, and carpenters to make buckets, and glassblowers to make bottles.

The problem here is, I don't really see warriors buying anything from cooks, they just slew a few pigs and throw it into the ofen, then the armor or swords aren't breaking, so this is just a one time investment, as long as things aren't breaking, or atleast in my past few days I never saw anything break, this circel isn't fullfilled.

[Juniper Onyx]

Indeed, I forgot that fact, perhaps it is better not to then Money should be brought into the game by merchants, although Pellandria, people who kill monsters need weapons; they buy from smith; who needs carpenters to make handles; who need lumberjacks to get logs; who need farmers to plant trees.
And they also need food; they buy from cooks; who need vegetables and fish from fishermen and farmers, and buckets from farmers.
They also need potions; they get these from alchemists; who need people who find herbs, and also need farmers, and carpenters to make buckets, and glassblowers to make bottles.

The problem here is, I don't really see warriors buying anything from cooks, they just slew a few pigs and throw it into the ofen, then the armor or swords aren't breaking, so this is just a one time investment, as long as things aren't breaking, or atleast in my past few days I never saw anything break, this circel isn't fullfilled.

Hmm...on the contrary......if warriors knew how much better an apple pie was to Hamor sausage, and easier to carry, they would want them.

During a fight, who has time to eat 8-9 sausages to get healed when only 2-3 apple pies will work as good, and aren't as heavy to carry?
I think Cooks have a lot to offer fighters, it's just hard to find good cooks.

Edit: I will leave for a bit and read what you all say.

[abcfantasy]

Indeed, I forgot that fact, perhaps it is better not to then Money should be brought into the game by merchants, although Pellandria, people who kill monsters need weapons; they buy from smith; who needs carpenters to make handles; who need lumberjacks to get logs; who need farmers to plant trees.
And they also need food; they buy from cooks; who need vegetables and fish from fishermen and farmers, and buckets from farmers.
They also need potions; they get these from alchemists; who need people who find herbs, and also need farmers, and carpenters to make buckets, and glassblowers to make bottles.

The problem here is, I don't really see warriors buying anything from cooks, they just slew a few pigs and throw it into the ofen, then the armor or swords aren't breaking, so this is just a one time investment, as long as things aren't breaking, or atleast in my past few days I never saw anything break, this circel isn't fullfilled.

Hmm...on the contrary......if warriors knew how much better an apple pie was to Hamor sausage, and easier to carry, they would want them.

During a fight, who has time to eat 8-9 sausages to get healed when only 2-3 apple pies will work as good, and aren't as heavy to carry?
I think Cooks have a lot to offer fighters, it's just hard to find good cooks.

this is very true! I've really been searching for cooks but just couldn't know where to search. I always used to get poisoned, and carry a bunch of all fruits and raw fish. Even a bread is much better!

[Skaalib Drurr]

Why dont you ask in a predominantly farming town? I know quite a few cooks actually, it is not that hard to find them really, I stumbled across a couple whilst doing something completely different. And yes, apple pies nearly fill up the food bar with one pie, whereas sausage does very little, and ham also, and you can be poisened with ham quite often.

[Lennier]

"I sell 1.000 iron ingots for 1 gold coin. Who wants?" - Examples like this we had in the more or less far past. They are forbidden at this Forum, because it decrease the ingame search for contacts, sellers and costumers. The act of trading, the find of prices, the search for the player chars has to be an ingame part, made ingame, not via Board.


But! If i take it right, the main-idea is an kind of register of merchants, crafters, priests, whatever. I am right? Dusty Bottom is major of Greenbriar, right too?

Why he does not write down a register of professions of his citizens in the announcements of the County Briar Thread? That would be an indirect kind. It would be Promotion for the own region and propably allowed without to make a new board for new spam.

It would be a public service of the "goverment", a reason to take taxes for it.

[Skaalib Drurr]

You see, I actually see nothing wrong with "I have 1,000 iron ingots for one gold, who wants?" And I also think it is not spam, because it is not useless, and it would be on topic.
And if you think it is spam, then dont read it. And remember, it wont take much work, just a few clicks.
And I find it a little stupid to say that it encourages ingame links because presumably you must meet them ingame to hand over the goods, and as soon as you know the person, you would just dove them anyway to ask for more things.

[Lennier]

I believe, this topic is on the wrong board.

Here are the rules of the RPG-Board

http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... php?t=9592


Old Dicsussions about the topic. More can be found with the search function

http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... hp?p=92176
http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... p?p=260963

[Gro'bul]

[name] [profession] [services/items rendered] [location(s) found]
[one line to describe themselves or business]

Not auction threads, but a general advertisement like a phonebook. Since every blacksmith or carpenter doesn't have his own shop it can be hard to find one. No lists of product prices, no lists of products even. Maybe forum account too so that pm's may find them.

[Juniper Onyx]

Lennier, you raise some good points about spamming.

I know there used to be posts for trade in the past and because of that it is against the rules now, but do you really think that helps the creation of a 'player' economy.

I believe we need a forum thread for all 'businesses' from all over gobiath, much like the 'guilds' are on one thread. ((Think about it, how do these Guilds all get on one thread, hmm?))

If you like, we could limit it to businesses with 'physical' locations, and player 'services' could be advertised in towns, but I believe it is imporatant for those businesses to be able to list wares, services and prices on a board. I don't know how many times I would go through the Loooooooonnnnnggggggg list of items I both buy and sell, and negotiating prices, only to find out that the buyer was looking for something else. What a waste of ingame time. It would be far easier to list wares and prices, as a restaurant does with a "Menu", and the customers would know already what they are there for and what it will cost. It's only common sense.

Business on the RPG thread is actually a stretch of the rules. I'd rather not post businesses there, but where else could they be posted if we don't have their own thread? RPG thread should be just for RP and stories that affect the players ingame.

If I have to, I will create a Trade guild within the rules, however, that will concentrate most, if not all information and 'power' upon this one guild. I would much rather see a forum thread everyone could use who wants to start a 'real' business. It would make a player economy more 'equal' and dispersed among many, not just a few. I am asking this for everyone's benefit, not just my own. As a 'mature' player, I just think this would be better and easy to implement.

"God created man in his image, but Colt made them equal" We need something similar when it comes to trade and economy. It's too limited and unrealistic the way it is now.

PS- as far as listing trades in the Hamlet, I suppose that could be done and thats a good idea, but believe it or not, there are no taxes in Greenbriar. I do not believe taxes to be a reliable enough 'income' for a game such as this and causes problems.

[NirAntae]

It wouldn't be too hard (since this idea seems not to be overly popular) to create a simple guild, something along the lines of the Gobiath Merchants Association.

The only purpose of this guild would be to help promote the businesses and skills of the people of Gobiath. No controls, no demands of loyalty, etc. Basically just to be able to get a thread on the guilds board.

Once the guild has its own thread, each person who joins could place their own 'parchment' under the guild's official paper, advertising what skills they have and the items and services they sell (but not the prices, as per the rules-besides, this restricts easy fluctuations in prices and so on). For the purposes of keeping the list up to date, you could probably ask a moderator to delete the thread every three months, and the members would write a new list of their services.

Just some thoughts

[Juniper Onyx]

Thank you for your thoughts, but as I stated earlier, I would rather not start "Just another guild". There are enough already.

I believe you are wrong about this idea not being 'overly' popular. The player-economy has been 'handcuffed' for so long it will take a few good examples to spark interest for others to begin their own. I have been doing just that and recieving very positive input, support and patronage of the businesses I have started (and stopped).

I notice the frustration players have to find a 'cook' for example. They have to know or find someone who may be in TB one day, and Varshikar the next, who knows? When they do find them, then they go into the long interview of what that 'cook' can make. If you're not a cook yourself, how would you know if they were advanced or just a beginner? Then you have to try to find that person again if you want more later, very frustrating.

I believe a good 'cook' would naturally start his own bakery, restaurant or other business. The better he is, the more wares he could offer, and customers would realize that 'cook' 'A' is better than 'cook''B' because he offered more wares at fair prices. Only by having a business, would customers know this easily and reasonably count on someone being there when they say they will. Word of mouth is too unrealistic for anyone even average in their trade. They would want to 'distinguish' themselves from the competition.

Also businesses are better than a 'guild' because they could hire people to work for them. (I haven't seen guilds do that, towns try, but....thats another story) Businesses are an RP entity by themselves, as I am about to prove with my new "Briarpatch Tavern". Hiring people to do jobs is sorely lacking in Illarion in general. Like someone once said, the game focuses too much on material goods, why? It's the only way to earn money. What if money could be made by working for it, besides always crafting or killing? 3 of the four jobs I have offered with my new tavern are just these type. They are RP jobs. I will have more soon. I thought everyone wanted more RP?

I believe allowing businesses their own thread as a place for customers to visit is the best option. I don't understand why anyone would believe different? Am I just wrong here? Please explain why this is a bad idea?

[Achae Eanstray]

There's no need to make robes, dresses, wizard hats, bags, armors if they can't be sold-most of the things I made were thrown out to save room in my storage and I haven't made anything but shoes in quite awhile. A business thread would at least see if someone is interested in buying.

Achae


Shakes the dust from her tailor bag then opens it to see what is inside

[Miru]

Have to agree with Dusty... super idea... how many times do new players go up to people who may be in a quest and then get ignored and mostly by the better role players because it does not fit in with what they are doing.... that is why the island is a great idea... and this complements it nicely.. even if it is limited to just Business.. some one try and tell me that bussines in olden times never had advertizing..hand bills and posts are..and should be part of the roleplaying ....if not then close most of the forums

Miru Yukimitsu
junior alderman of Greenbriar
Order of the Eldan Oak

a journey of a 1000 miles starts with the first step, and is shorter if one starts in the right direction (dusty's idea is the right diecrtion)