Suggestion for death

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:36 am

Rasteel Olin wrote:Simple.
After (a certain number of) deaths, player is perma-dead.
OR
Skills go back to 0.

Discuss. WITH NO, 'EFFIN FLAMING! Please! That's too good of a suggestion for the thread to be locked due to flaming.

Even though this has been suggested many times, I still agree with it.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:07 am

My suggestion (it has a very similar idea to yours)

Your constitution score.

Every time you die, it takes a -1 penalty.

When that reaches 0, THEN you die.

But it shouldn't be indefenite.

One IG month of rest, increases this...
-
In other words

I have 14 const

I die, the character now has 13 const.

A month passes, I already died this month, so nothing happens
Another month passes, I didn't die once (:) ) so the const increases by +1, its now 14
Another month of no-death passes, I now have 14 const, (can't go over max).
ect.

=
A problem is, if there's a muck-up (lyke the time when monsters appear at the cross). In that case, a death only counts if it happens 1 rot cycle after the previous one.

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:10 am

I don't like these ideas at all, sowwies.

My idea would be a recovery period in wich you can not fight and craft, like Aleytys said.
You can talk, rp and all that, just not fight, craft or such for a set time.

Shinn Kuuro · Post by **Shinn Kuuro** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:19 am

I like what Kevin said.

But to tell the truth, I don't think there should be a death penalty at all. We should be able to roleplay all of those decisions.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:21 am

Shinn Kuuro wrote:I like what Kevin said.

But to tell the truth, I don't think there should be a death penalty at all. We should be able to roleplay all of those decisions.

And thats the problem...

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:25 am

Shinn is absolutely right.

But that's as Adrian said the whole problem, lots of people don't want to, lots of people don't seem to respect roleplaying in that way.
And what keeps them from doing such?
Noone, it's not a punishable rule as far as I know.

In my eyes most of the problems in Illarion come from disrespect for roleplaying and for other people.

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:50 am

how about after death, the character is unable to fight or work for maybe some days. he would be considered to be gravely injured and takes alot of time to recover.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:52 am

abcfantasy wrote:how about after death, the character is unable to fight or work for maybe some days. he would be considered to be gravely injured and takes alot of time to recover.

Too griefy.

What if a n00b attacks me and i kill him? then he spends his first few days of illarion doing nothing.

Yridia Anar · Post by **Yridia Anar** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:55 am

I think many things interlock here.

This "I am not afraid to die play " resulted, after all, also from the fact that many new PO's generally no background history have and seeing Illarion not as a RP play.
Again (my thought) has the reason about the open account system.

I avoid killing and get clouded with my Char's, because death is something tallness. And it doesn't matter whether what Char i actually play. Fact: we have to changed some things to keep and hold a good RP - game.

I have also read very attentive what Pendar / Brian wrote.
Because I have not played, however, in so-called * Old Times * I can neither judge this or understand. And a question to Brian: Why must one always stick to old things constantly? Your comments sound as you would play if everything had so remained as at your time, however, also a fairytale world cannot avoid, nevertheless, changes or I am so wrong with this ? There was and is, neither in the fairy tale, nor in the Middle Ages and already not at all in the real world ONLY good and ONLY bad, and nothing can to remain in static forever.

Illarion is an enchanting game, in their also often unnoticed, dramas passing by, an everlasting circulation ... and it's in our hands, and the Staff, with life to fulfil.

That's my thoughts ... and to all who founding mistakes in my English --- may keep it those with pleasure!

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:03 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:
abcfantasy wrote:how about after death, the character is unable to fight or work for maybe some days. he would be considered to be gravely injured and takes alot of time to recover.
Too griefy.

What if a n00b attacks me and i kill him? then he spends his first few days of illarion doing nothing.

nothing? He will be able to rp! and that's what he should do.
but anyway, maybe they could make an exception for new chars (maybe determined by their skills or something)

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:44 pm

I think a couple of ig hours would be plenty.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:18 pm

nothing? He will be able to rp! and that's what he should do.

You don't know n00bs do you

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:42 pm

correction:

abcfantasy wrote:nothing? He will have a chance to (learn to) rp! and that's what he should do.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:32 pm

abcfantasy wrote:correction:
abcfantasy wrote:nothing? He will have a chance to (learn to) rp! and that's what he should do.

Why don't we disable skill gain for n00bs for the first day or so? You've hit a good idea

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:36 pm

Dont forget death through lag. Can happen often.
And you have only five characters in your account.
Characters with a lower constitution (i.e. 3,4,5) would be unplayable after just a bit lag-death, so everyone would make characters with maximal constitution.

pharse · Post by **pharse** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:04 pm

Amazing. I just wanted to start today a discussion about the same topic, but with another suggestion.

I don´t know how difficult it would be for the devs so...just read.

I am not a fan of the current "clouding" system. I would prefer instead a "wounded" system. You are wounded when you reach 1HP (or whatever it´s called here) or would drop below it.

Being wounded means:

-your char is marked e.g. with a red cross on the torso so everyone can see you´re wounded

-you can´t attack or perform any magic.

-dropping items/bags like it is now with clouding

-only whispering possible

-you are freezed for 10sec or so (enough time for bandits to steal the items), after this you can take your items (if still there

) and move again, but with 0.5 speed or so.

-everytime you are attacked when you´re wounded you drop your bag, nothing else. But you can´t drop below 1HP.

-you can´t heal yourself e.g. with potions.

"Recovery" means:
HP increases from 1 to 2, another Spell (or potion of your own, since you´re not "wounded" any more) is needed to get back more HP.

How you can "recover":

-someone else performs a healing spell on you

-after an amount of time (2 server cycles?)

-near the cross the time is reduced (1 server cycle?)

Being wounded is easier and mor logical for RPing. So you can´t die unless there is e.g. a quest group A against group B and both leaders agree OOC that if one group is defeated the leader has to die --> perma (of course with the help of GMs).

There should also be another restriction: being wounded the 2nd time within 5(?) server cycles gets your char "wounded" for 1RL hour. This would prevent constant wounded-->recovery expecially with mages.

All time data etc are just proposals. What do you think?

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:36 pm

If this happened I'd leave.

pharse · Post by **pharse** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:52 pm

then please tell, which advantages offers the current "clouding" system that can´t be implemented in a "wounded" system?

This was no "final version", of course this system can be improved.

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:36 pm

I do like the idea of "wounded", obviously i don't agree with all and some things need to be changed, but it could be quite a good idea. I think if we really start to think about it, it could be much better then the current clouding system.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:41 pm

Pendar wrote:Lag happens, disconection happens and most importantly npcs are just there to be had fun with they change nothing. No death situation should involved npcs.
Npcs= you get clouded you lose or dont lose skills and items the end.

The importance needs to added to when a player kills a player.
"what about a dual/training"
hence there should be a command to actually -kill- or damage a character once it has been made a cloud. So it can never happen by mistake

Yes a character chopping my characters head off should always be a huge happening and have a large impact on my characters life and developement.
I no longer wished to play in a world, were i killed or was killed by my enemies and the attitude was "Ah another day another decapitation, want to come train those skills back Pendar?"
Dieing in PVP should be a huge thing, you fear and avoid it is vital to a game.
How people cant see that is a little confuseing to me, all that changed was we use to play it as a HUGE thing and thank Malachin for sending us back, praying we would never come that close to death again.
Then it became a case of oh i killed him cut his head off, ah well he will be back later-- oh look here he comes, propably wants his armor back--
Brian

I would agree dieing should be a huge thing if it was not for that fact people are so soon to cloud. For instance..I had a character get killed in 3-4 seconds yesterday in PvP because the Po thought I was threatening their character. Before we would add such things I think people would need to realize that killing some one should not just be some thing that the average person can just shrug off.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:45 pm

You seem to forget to add that your character attacked her in the past two times without any warning. one time at the cross in middle of rp with retlak, the second time in the seahorse. you simply stood infront of me, made a quick #me and attacked.

yesterday your char mentioned a threat to her and her friends, threatening the friends of a Zhambra whorshipper. And than stood infront of her after she warned him not to do so again. he stood infront of her like the last two times he attacked her immediately without warning.
and he played deaf, saying he cant hear her warning about not to threaten her friends again.

And that all as a member of the temple who threaten Samantha again just recently.

so dont moan when you are than fried.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:48 pm

Samantha Meryadeles wrote:You seem to forget to add that your character attacked her two times before without any warning. one time at the cross in middle of rp with retlak, the second time in the seahorse. you simply stood infront of me, made a quick #me and attacked.

yesterday your char mentioned a threat to her, and thsan stood infront of her as she warned him not to do so. he stood infront of her like the last two times he attacked her immediately without warning.
and he played deaf, saying he cant hear her warning not to threaten her friends.

so dont moan when you are than fried.

This is not a place to defend your in chracter actions. The other issue had been talked about in game.

People still are to quik to cloud. You know it, i know it.

Orfin · Post by **Orfin** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:00 pm

I like the ida of a woundet-time and agree with the "system" above.

Just one little problem. What to do if monsters are around? Players kill just one time, monsters as much as they can.

Then monsters wold not attacked wounded (what is nearly the only suggestion) , what I wouldn´t like. Its like beeing clouded, but you can talk.

((sry for the bad english))

Beldir · Post by **Beldir** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:07 pm

I suggest to let it how it is.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:22 pm

Beldir wrote:I suggest to let it how it is.

/signed

pharse · Post by **pharse** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:21 am

hm... not a very convincing position without any arguments.

pharse wrote:then please tell, which advantages offers the current "clouding" system that can´t be implemented in a "wounded" system?

This was no "final version", of course this system can be improved.

I already stated the advantages of my suggestion.

And Orfin: Sorry I didn´t get your point. (sonst schick´s mir einfach per PM auf deutsch)

and PS: you can whisper as a ghost, too.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:42 am

I never quoted you or said @Pharse; I was saying if your char perma died after a few times I'd leave, because it's ridiculous. There'll always be a stupid time you can't avoid death, like in lich wars or something. Even if you always stay away from trouble (e.g. William hasn't been PKed for about 6 months and that was by bandits who didn't give me a chance to escape or rp, and he was last killed in the graveyard about a month ago, but before that about 4 months ago) there will always be the situation where you'll be killed, and then your char perma dies. Which sucks. I have discovered in my time in illarion that if I try to play any other character than Elderberry I can play him for a day or 2 or bring him in once every blue moon for a little fun, but can't play them consistently. I reckon if Will died I probably couldn't be arsed anymore and quit... or get him ressurected. @Pharse, there's a lot of stupid suggestions in your post but I can't be bothered pointing them out. I say we just leave it how it is. Basically, the problem at hand is that the rp is dire and people don't care about death. This can't be fixed with perma killing characters. That's stupid. I think it's a little too late now. It's kinda like: England had a problem with immigrants recently, they still do, but we can't kick them out and we can't refuse to take more back in now. It's too late, it was a bad decision and now we get our penance. Removing the essay and name check was dumb. Using the new client was good, but it attracted more noobs; and now those noobs could get in without being good rpers; and LOTS of noobs could get in, and learn NOT to roleplay together, and teach other noobs NOT to roleplay.

It sucks.

And it's too late.

Illarion's spiraling down a bottomless chasm now and we all know it.

pharse · Post by **pharse** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:34 pm

sorry if I misunderstood you but your post was directly after my one so I assumed it was meant for me.

Anyway, I think the main problem now is that people can´t handle with the current system. It´s illogical to "die" i.e. become a ghost then get resurructed and this again and again. It´s hard to roleplay especially for newbies. The "wounded" system would simplify it and would offer possibilities for "easy" RP for newbies (noone has to be upset that they reacted wrong) and for "advanced" RP for more experienced players at the same time.

Additionally - concerning the current discussion about good vs evil - an "evil" group can raid a whole town i.e. they can threaten the people and they cooperate or if they defend their town at all costs the "evil" group can, theoretically, fight them untill they are all wounded. Now it´s like: death->resurruction->death->resurruction... No chance for equivalent roleplay. (of course quests with NPC monsters have to be very balanced)

If the staff acted according to the motto "It´s too late..." there would be no future for Illarion, no improvement. But I think this isn´t the case.

Perhaps you reconsider your opinion. It would be great to see many people trying to improve the system that everyone is satisfied. But it´s even more important to read a dev´s or staff member´s opinion if or how this system can be implemented.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:36 pm

I love the wounded system

But add a coup-de-grace option for when you really hate the person, giving him skill-loss

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:27 pm

I didn't read all this, but i think the main point about a punishment would be to stop people from going to the cross resurecting, and then attack the one who killed them once again. This can not be too hard to acomplish...
Dont let the player regenerate health in some hours after a death.
Or the server could throw the player out for some hours. The char has probably fainted anyway, so he would not see or hear anything. let him relog in the hospital, wich would allow some nice rp'ing as well.

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Suggestion for death

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