A king

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:09 am

I was wondering how many of you thought that there should be royalty like i do. There is not enough unity amongst the people. Who should lead us if the war in the east comes to our town? We have no leader. I also like the laws that royalty imposes upon the land. Just today i witnessed a theft. An ingot was stolen and no one was convicted of the crime. Please feel free to make suggestions of who you would like as king, too. (I personally think Sir Cain Freemont And Lady Niniane are the best choices for king and queen, respectively.)

Bumbol Woodstock · Post by **Bumbol Woodstock** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:19 am

Hm... paul were you the guy i kept taunting calling you a theif because you stole the crown of the heir of Trolls bane? Because a dwarf said someone stole his ingot around there, i think he was full of it. Anyway back on topic... I dont want a king/queen because i like the way every race finds a way to live in harmony without laws. Besides, if there was a king/queen and a race war started up, they would of the first ones to die.

Roke · Post by **Roke** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:20 am

I think they would be good choices but, personally I think there could be a better Royal Couple (sorry Cain and Niniane.). also, what is wrong with our Anarchy?

Fieps · Post by **Fieps** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:20 am

Dont you think its a question ingame?
Trollsbane should never get a king, at the most the individual cities (dwarves, Lizards and so one).
Say to me only one reason why the city should get a king and queen, honestly said it gives none, except central power, which goes with utilization of the rights. No a king for Trollbane is completely unsuitable, legeslative plus executive power in the sense of an advice would be ideal.

Sevious Helios · Post by **Sevious Helios** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:22 am

They could be like that one king from England Like King Henry was it? He called upon knights and nobles for raising taxes whenever he needs too. Just my suggestion. But other than that I think that a king a queen is not a good idea.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:30 am

Yes that was me bumbol. Oh, i gave farlong a silver ingot just so he wouldn't feel bad. I hate theives

. Anyway, the beauty of my idea is that you elect the king. (i guess it not really a king then

). But tell me what would happen if war came from the east. Who would organize us? Would it be every man (and woman) for himself(herself)?

Bumbol Woodstock · Post by **Bumbol Woodstock** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:34 am

Well, i dont know what would come from the East that would attack us... anyways, im sure the Elves in the elven guild would make an army, the Humans would band together, the dwarves would meet in their city and organize, sadly us hobbits would flee or die since their are only two hobbits in the guild.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:38 am

Why is everyone against me????

I would like a king because you are not technically a knight without one. You are, what the japanese call (i believe), a ronin (correct me if i'm wrong).

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:40 am

It may seem good to have a king/queen, but I doubt that it could be done. If the king/queen were an ordinary player, what would happen if that person suddenly stopped playing (for some reason). Do we just go on pretending it never happened (in RP)? Or do we make up some RP excuse for it.
And what about those who do not respect the king/queen? In real life, the person may have been executed for treason, but in the game what can we do? To most of these type of people, simply killing them isn't punishment. And we can't kill them multiple times by the rules. The only thing that may be an actual punishment is to ban them, but then that's going too far.
So in short, we have obvious RP problems, and no way to punish those who do not accept the arrangement. It may seem to boost RP at the beginning, but I think overall the negative side will greatly outweigh the positive side.

Niniane · Post by **Niniane** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:46 am

There are too many different opinions on the matter of if there should or should not be a ruling party, or person. The best bet would be to find someone you trust and would allow to create laws for you (possibly with your suggestions) and to obey them. In return they would give much needed organization, protection, as well as numerous other benifits. This is similar to what the knights of the Grey Rose have done. You can create your own kingdom and build it up to a great power at which point others will wish to join, but it would not be right to force yourself upon others (unless in a war type situation). But if you want to create or be a part of a kingdom then you need to make a small group of people and centralize the power within an even smaller number of them, then have it grow. Eventually there will be ample funds to create a physical kingdom and offer all the services a true kingdom could and should.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:47 am

I just had a grand idea

. What if a GM is elected king? There is no risk of being cheated by the king, is there? They wouldn't need to. They are already in control of land use, so that is something. They have the power to pick punishments for people, like maybe temporary ban. They probably will not quit the game, i think. I would like to hear from a GM on this.

Bumbol Woodstock · Post by **Bumbol Woodstock** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:54 am

paul or should i say theif... jk
This idea isn't cause what is the points of gamemaster being king, then people will get mad that a gamemaster became king and there is no way a regular player could be king. So the point is, this idea cant work.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:57 am

If there was a king or queen what would he or she do in Illarion right now? To your orginal problem of a thief not being punished, simply having a monarch will not give them the psychic ability to determine guilt. Relative to the times and situation in Illarion right now, I would say a monarch serves minimal use and causes much unrest. Right now there is a very low concentration of political figureheads that are recognized throughout enough of the population. As for GMs, that would limit the RP options and they are busy enough now anyways.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 5:02 am

The reason that a monarch would be able to stop the theft is because there could be MPs. They would also protect the city. How many jobs would this open up? There was another forum about player controlled economy and this is the way to do it.

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 5:06 am

That creates another problem, who shall be the 'MPs'? I don't think too many players would like to stand around for hours as a sentinel.

Bumbol Woodstock · Post by **Bumbol Woodstock** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 5:07 am

Paul you know even with mps, they still wouldn't know who stole the ingot. Both u and I were there and didn't know who it was. People would just accuse and have no evidence.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 5:11 am

First of all, MPs wouldn't just stand around. They would patrol the city and surrounding area. They can mine if they want. The difference is that they are payed to protect. Also, the ingot thing was just an example.

Bumbol Woodstock · Post by **Bumbol Woodstock** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 5:13 am

i don't think u understand, i am saying the mps wouldn;t know who stole, they wouldn't be able to tell any better then you or me.

Niniane · Post by **Niniane** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 5:15 am

Roke. I'm hurt.

As for the MP making the wrong decision, this is the point of having a government and not just a single person out there enforcing the laws like we have now. There could be a court system in which two or more people in the area are brought foward (if the victim was a member of the kingdom) and the case would be heard and the judge, or King or even QUEEN NINIANE would decide who was the guilty party. The decision would not always be correct but it would add realism as there are many innocent people conviced of crimes they did not comment because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Also, I don't believe there should be a single, all encompasing kingdom. There should be smaller kingdoms thoughout the land (there are a few now but they are called by different names. The Dwarftown, The Elven Community, The Knights of The Grey Rose, etc.) This could provide for the possiblity for partnerships as well as strife, adding even more realism.

The fact remains that illarion is still a land of chaos and a centralized government (preferably more than one, and yes I know that sounds contradictory but it's not) would provide for the best step foward into a better rp atmosphere.

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 5:17 am

If you introduce payment, you give life to yet another problem. How many people will do the job legitimately? The hired MPs may not take the job seriously. Then what do we do, hire MPs to watch over those MPs? And more MPs to watch over the MPs that watch over the first MPs...

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 5:24 am

You hire people you can trust. You do not hire slackers.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 5:31 am

They don't neccessarily need to be kingdoms but simply organizations or guilds. The thing is there only are the few organizations that you named and not much more, and communication between them are very low. If such organizations came together they could inspire a large amount of confidence from the entire population for a larger government, but there are just so few now that are active. First smaller steps need to be taken to bring awareness to more organizations and to make them more active. Representitive and leaders and even just members need to speak out more to make their presence known to gain confidence from the people.

As for trying to pass judgement on crimes, that might seem interesting the first few times, but I'm sure it'll grow old very fast from the complete lack of plausible evidence that just leads to frustrating arguements.

@paul: You're free to hire people to protect you whom YOU trust. Don't expect anyone else to let him settle disputes or crimes though.

Niniane · Post by **Niniane** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 6:36 am

There are some in place now, as you said Dyluck. But these groups are not all seemingly active. There is always room for more. Some may come and go but there will be one or two that will stand the test of time. Maybe it's time for a new one to emerge and help bring the few dust covered ones out of the closet with it.

Niniane for Queen: Vote 'Yes' for Prop. 15

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 6:45 am

Make that one vote!

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 6:46 am

That's the thing, they need to show their activity. Guilds such as the Grey Rose might be active amongst themselves, but it inspires no confidence to the general population if it goes unseen. Even the Elven Community has only recently resurfaced attention with the return of key members after it had been forgotten for a while, and Silvebrand/Dwarftown was barely known to many people before their home was built. Organizations need to make known their activities and discussions to the public more often and communicate with other organizations in order to make themselves known and gain confidence from people. Many a new guild would be nice, but I think the chances of a succesful one anytime soon are pretty low due to most of them being poorly organized and unattractive.

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 6:53 am

The Rangers will live again... I hope

Niniane · Post by **Niniane** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 8:22 am

That's exactly the way to enspire confidence in your guilds ability to last and competence of the leaders from others, Astral!

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 10:13 am

I like the idea of a king and queen, but the trouble is finding the right people who are here most of the day for all timezones, I hear Tialdin is to be a king, of dwarftown, which is good news.

And you are ronin if your king dies and there are no heirs to take his place, if you are ronin you only want revenge for the death of your king or fight with the beliefs of the deciest king, but that is all japanese and therefore *kall to do with this game.

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 10:31 am

A king/queen is only useful, if they were accepted by most of the people and guilds.
And this is nearly impossible to find such a person.
A king/queen without the power to rule and the people obeying and following them will be ridiculous.

The only useful way for a sort of government will be a council, where the guilds and free people send someone in, to discuss and form laws.
This was proposed earlier and tried to set up, like the guild council (nearly a year ago).
There exist also rules to build a guild council, which were accepted from most of the guilds.

But there was a lag of keeping on with this ideas cause of to much non-rp-players on the streets of Illarion.

I think, now, it is time again, to try to build this council up again, if there are enough people, who want a form of government over Troll's Bane.

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 10:36 am

I second that opinion! Vivé la guilds!

Also, how can we protest against a government and set up secret clubs against them if they never existed, joking, of course

Illarion.org

A king

Do you think there should be a king and/or queen?

A king