crafting makes people rip their hair out

Hu'greu · Post by **Hu'greu** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:37 pm

ok smithing has been kinda pissing me off lately. Its not really the massive jump inbetween skill level of experiance. Its more of the I DONT know if I'm getting experiance for the things I'm making.

This is why I propose that there should be an red out line or at least make the words that describe what the item is at the bottom of the window turn red when you cannot get experiance for making said item.

I think this is logical because as a craftsman you know if making somethings is going to cause you to get better. I say this because my brother is becoming a welder and he knows that he cannot get any better if he worked in a line manufactoring parts. Which is why he wants a job where he will do different things all the the time.

What do you all think about this?

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:41 pm

Agree

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:50 pm

Agreed.
Crafting will be redone by Nitram afaik. I suggest contacting him with good proposals (as short and detailled as possible I guess)

Skill growth itself could use an optimization (not: a new system), too. Not sure whom to contact about this.

Skaalib Drurr · Post by **Skaalib Drurr** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:50 pm

yea sure, agree. I'd also like to point out to learn smithing is painfully, painfully slow and boring.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:52 pm

Smithing is meant to be, it is the craft that can make you gain the highest amount of money and we dont want a lot of people to be good smiths, they are meant to be rare and thats why its hard to become a great one, only the most perseverant get there.

Stuikerd · Post by **Stuikerd** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:53 pm

but maybe that makes smithers so special and important?

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:53 pm

Arameh wrote: only the most perseverant get there.

Arameh, we call them powergamers here.

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:02 pm

i tried pointing this out a very long time ago to the devs, i got the same answer, that crafting is being worked on, and it has only gotten worse... far worse...

not only have not level up in about a RL year, but now ingame everything i make is bad-average quality, even the most simplest of items i make very bad of, and i still fail often enough with these simple items

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:03 pm

Nitram is working on it...I talked to him today...
various crafts were complete... in fact he was scripting another craft today aswell...

you must understand that scripting takes much time so be patient!
appreciate his work!

Samantha Meryadeles · Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:05 am

Smithing is meant to be, it is the craft that can make you gain the highest amount of money and we dont want a lot of people to be good smiths, they are meant to be rare and thats why its hard to become a great one, only the most perseverant get there.

How comes that your opinion about smiths is so much different of yours about mages? because you can kill a smith easily?

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:09 am

Crafting and 'battleing' is totally different Patty

Azuros · Post by **Azuros** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:13 am

Vilarion wrote:After the current reworking of the crafting system (it will be great, I promise) we will most likely implement something completely new which has been put off far too long, I think. Right Aragon?

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:03 am

I hope this comes soon...I can't wait.

swish1 · Post by **swish1** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:15 am

I agree but the games about RP. Just make things you like and maybe you will increase skill or maybe not but that is not what the game is about.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:22 am

I do not think people play simply because it focuses on true Role Play(if that was all people wanted DnD would be what they are doing instead of Illarion). I think people play it because it blends true Role Play and elements from a normal rpg video game.

Elements in the game like smithing, warriors, mages, and their skills are something that adds to the our role play. Anyways, skill is apart of this game and it does need to be worked on. I am thank full it is and just hope it is done soon so I can enjoy it.

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:23 am

The problem with the crafting system these days as far as I am concerned is that it is too complicated, two years ago to make green cloth all I would need it a loom and some wool, now I need cabbages, buckets, knifes, mortars and god knows what else, there are too many different stages that needs to be reduced.

Azuros · Post by **Azuros** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:26 am

Lrmy wrote:I do not think people play simply because it focuses on true Role Play(if that was all people wanted DnD would be what they are doing instead of Illarion). I think people play it because it blends true Role Play and elements from a normal rpg video game.

Elements in the game like smithing, warriors, mages, and their skills are something that adds to the our role play. Anyways, skill is apart of this game and it does need to be worked on. I am thank full it is and just hope it is done soon so I can enjoy it.

Not true in my case, my characters have little to no skill, Az is a leader of the Druids and his alchemy skill is less than that of a newly made player

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:27 am

Moathia,

i don't agree. crafting is meant to be something to do for a while, not in a second or two.

or would you really like a system, where you push a sheep in a monger, and out comes a ready-to-wear shirt?

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:41 am

Korm I just don't want it overly complex, as it is now to make decent shirt you need to be a master in several skills or know some people who are good in those different skills. Or would you rather have a system where it takes thirty different steps just to sheer a sheep.

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:19 am

Azuros wrote:Not true in my case, my characters have little to no skill, Az is a leader of the Druids and his alchemy skill is less than that of a newly made player

this seems like saying "I am the head mage of the mage academy, but i have no magic skills and cant teach" what would you think of this player....

i dont like how players think because they can imagine themselves as something, that they are that something. Some of us work really hard ingame to get to a certain level where we can consider ourselves a certain kind of character.

Azuros · Post by **Azuros** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:24 am

That shows how much you know about the druid way

edit: also, you forget that some of us work our way up through rp, rather than skill. Az did not declare himself one of the leaders, Ava chose him and Yridia

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:29 am

Azuros wrote:That shows how much you know about the druid way

LOL you make that sound like an insult

no i dont know anything about druids, but you imply that druids need alchemy, so i assumed druids need alchemy.

edit:

Azuros wrote:edit: also, you forget that some of us work our way up through rp, rather than skill. Az did not declare himself one of the leaders, Ava chose him and Yridia

i can use the same example as before... you can roleplay your ass off as a mage leader of a mage academy, with other people that also dont have any magic skill.

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:16 am

I tentatively agree with Moathia, but for slightly different reasons.

Mainly, with as many steps and things that are involved in making anything right now, it is *very* difficult to earn any kind of profit.

The in-game prices evolved in a time where, as she said, all you needed to make green cloth was wool and a loom. Now, you need some ten items, several of them resources, to try and create a green shirt... but the final product is worth the same as only one or two of those resources. Try buying, say, ten bundles of wool (the extra to account for failed attempts along the way), five or six cabbages, and two or three spools of thread, and see if you can buy all this for less than the what, ten copper you get for a completed shirt?

Of course, you could just become an expert farmer, as well as tailor and alchemist, with unlimited time to grow or gather your resources... but what fun is the game if you have to spend hours and hours collecting resources for very little gain?

The only craft you can *really* make a profit with anymore is *certain* aspects of tailoring (if you get the resources yourself), and smithing (once you get pretty good at it, and of course collect the resources yourself).

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:17 am

Or would you rather have a system where it takes thirty different steps just to sheer a sheep.

only, if it's 30 sheep!

now, after we both have overdone our point, seriously:

...or know some people who are good in those different skills.

YES, Ma'am! that is exactly, what i want.

my farmer sells grain, and buys bread.
my lumberjack sells treetrunks and buys plates or whatever.
and both have to interact with somebody else.

but, ok, my concept of roleplay may be wrong. - i just dont want a dramatic scene, everytime i let a char interact with others.
haggle a bit about the price, hear and tell gossip, have a drink together...
or a little fistfight...
that should be about 75 % of the rolplay in my opinion.

Dariya · Post by **Dariya** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:34 am

Korm Kormsen wrote: my farmer sells grain, and buys bread.
my lumberjack sells treetrunks and buys plates or whatever.
and both have to interact with somebody else.

but, ok, my concept of roleplay may be wrong. - i just dont want a dramatic scene, everytime i let a char interact with others.
haggle a bit about the price, hear and tell gossip, have a drink together...
or a little fistfight...
that should be about 75 % of the rolplay in my opinion.

agreed ...
I recognize way too much weight on skills and skillgaining lately

sure my char/s also want to learn the one or the other thing or improve skills ... but I mainly go ig for roleplay

and remember, in real life - at least in Germany - apprenticeship/education for a job takes at least 2, mainly 3 years

and after this time you still are a bloody noob in your job

Post by **Nitram** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:19 pm

Any discussions about the current crafting system are completly useless, since the new, improved system is nearly done.

And it will be much better, trust me

( at least after we found all bugs ^^ )

And in addition i have to aggree with Korm. Why does every character do everything on his own? Every miner is a smith too. Every smith mines too.

While i'm reworking the system i could limit the skills you are allowed to get in the crafting part, to one or two.

^^

Nitram

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:07 pm

Why does every character do everything on his own? Every miner is a smith too.

I think the reason for that is simply...a new smith has not the possibility to earn enough money so that he can buy his rawmaterials. same with carpenters and other trades. you simply can't pay for the materials at beginning.
As long as you are not like the dwarves. now any new smith may learn from Thorwald and Guran, and may get the rawmaterials from the town. But for other races thats not really possible.

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:20 pm

Nitram wrote:
While i'm reworking the system i could limit the skills you are allowed to get in the crafting part, to one or two. ^^

Nitram

Sounds like a good idea:)

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:30 pm

Samantha hit the nail on the head. As I said in my earlier post, it is simply impossible to afford the materials needed until you are a fairly high level. You *have* to gather them yourself. If you want to discourage that, raise the prices paid for crafted items. (And yes, I know the idea is for people to trade with each other, but really, who is going to buy a few thousand pairs of shoes, or plates, or needles?)

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:31 pm

#me seems to be a carpenter, his saw hangs from his side belt.
#me his a tall human, he seems almost bald, his hair appearing to have been pulled out from the roots