I always sucked at titles..just read

[Fooser]

I implore you explore all the people you meet.

Genius.

[swish1]

Arameh, Stephen maybe was wrong or right...Look I got banned before arguing is going to make things worse. The staff decided to do this and they did(maybe right or wrong). Now you cannot change it. Unless this is a Permaban just wait and continue playing. I mean its wasting so much things to be fighting. The staff did what they did because they felt that certain way. That is all I have to say.

PS I hope Stephen gets unbanned. I feel bad for the ban too.

[Arameh]

It is meant to be permanent Swish, thats why.

[swish1]

Oh..that sucks. Well is it still permanent? Or did they change their mind?

[AlexRose]

Oh..that sucks. Well is it still permanent? Or did they change their mind?

Try reading the topic!

[Aristeaus]

The last time PO Stephen Rothman got banned it was entirely out of order. Aegohl, myself and several of the other GMs at that time over-turned the ban and Sam was able to play again within a few hours of his ban. Since then, I've seen a noticeable change in the player. His posts on the board (which I believe to reflect his general attitude toward the game and towards the staff and fellow players) is far more disrespectful, verging on insulting a lot of the time. This time, as far as I can see, he revealed GM characters, which is indeed an offense that one can be banned for.

However, a problem arises. As there are no definite time periods for a ban, it is difficult to decide on how long he should be banned for. A ban of two weeks or so is definitely warranted, but an indefinite ban is certainly unfair and would be verging on power-abuse on the part of whoever it is that banned him.

Concluding: Yes, a ban is necessary, but for only two weeks or so. Any longer, and I'd be shooting off a mail to GM Abuse.

That one

[Aegohl]

The last time PO Stephen Rothman got banned it was entirely out of order. Aegohl, myself and several of the other GMs at that time over-turned the ban and Sam was able to play again within a few hours of his ban. Since then, I've seen a noticeable change in the player. His posts on the board (which I believe to reflect his general attitude toward the game and towards the staff and fellow players) is far more disrespectful, verging on insulting a lot of the time. This time, as far as I can see, he revealed GM characters, which is indeed an offense that one can be banned for.

However, a problem arises. As there are no definite time periods for a ban, it is difficult to decide on how long he should be banned for. A ban of two weeks or so is definitely warranted, but an indefinite ban is certainly unfair and would be verging on power-abuse on the part of whoever it is that banned him.

Concluding: Yes, a ban is necessary, but for only two weeks or so. Any longer, and I'd be shooting off a mail to GM Abuse.

*bears witness*

I, below, describe the disciplinary history of PO Stephen Rothman in Illarion history.

Round 1: Sam's early history is filled with disciplinary warnings and an eventual long-term ban. Most of what he got in trouble for would be laughable nowadays. Roleplaying was strictly moderated in those times. He was eventually long-term banned for "bad rp" more-or-less, and will probably stand in illarion history as the only person to get banned for that that actually tried to rp on a daily basis. These days the fact that he didn't just walk around control-clicking and his name wasn't "Deuce" would be considered laudible.

Because it will be important for the later history I mention here that Damien had planned certain extra rules for the player for his return to Illarion, such as only allowing him one character and requiring him to write an essay on his character's motivations.

That being said, this early history should be dismissed. It is irrelevant to what goes on today.

Round 2: Sam is banned unilaterally by a GM after being reported for attacking several players who couldn't speak English and thus were not aware of why they were being attacked. I and other GM's protested this ban successfully on the basis that not only is that not a rules violation, but even the report itself contained evidence that he tried several times to have everything be translated into German and the fault instead was in a non-responsive player; furthermore, it ended up that a certain amount of the players understood English and could have translated for their friends, but didn't. That being said, this should be strictly tossed off the record.

Round 3: Even as there were several threads on the GM boards about Sam's return to Illarion, and even one in which I attempted to remind Damien of the rules he had put together that were supposed to be enacted upon Sam on his return, Damien somehow completely had no idea that Sam had returned, after months. Finally stumbling upon the thread in which Sam's ban was revoked the week before, Damien unilaterally re-banned him on the basis that Sam didn't follow the rules of his return. This was again protested by a majority of the staff on the basis that it was the fault of the punisher being entirely unaware and not taking the responsibility of reading the GM boards.

This also should be tossed off the record--at the very least for Damien's sake.

That brings us to about a year's worth of quiet from the player and then here to the present.

What I find strange is that I come here so very little and I've seen a couple cases over that time of people being punished for being cruel to GM's. Sure, Japhy and I exed Konny back in the day for being a meany pants, but there was a difference. There was no getting rid of Konny. That was harassment, and you can't solve harassment without kicking the person out of the community. These people look more like the victims to me than the GM's do by any standard.

[Gildon]

The last time PO Stephen Rothman got banned it was entirely out of order. Aegohl, myself and several of the other GMs at that time over-turned the ban and Sam was able to play again within a few hours of his ban. Since then, I've seen a noticeable change in the player. His posts on the board (which I believe to reflect his general attitude toward the game and towards the staff and fellow players) is far more disrespectful, verging on insulting a lot of the time. This time, as far as I can see, he revealed GM characters, which is indeed an offense that one can be banned for.

However, a problem arises. As there are no definite time periods for a ban, it is difficult to decide on how long he should be banned for. A ban of two weeks or so is definitely warranted, but an indefinite ban is certainly unfair and would be verging on power-abuse on the part of whoever it is that banned him.

Concluding: Yes, a ban is necessary, but for only two weeks or so. Any longer, and I'd be shooting off a mail to GM Abuse.

*bears witness*

I, below, describe the disciplinary history of PO Stephen Rothman in Illarion history.

Round 1: Sam's early history is filled with disciplinary warnings and an eventual long-term ban. Most of what he got in trouble for would be laughable nowadays. Roleplaying was strictly moderated in those times. He was eventually long-term banned for "bad rp" more-or-less, and will probably stand in illarion history as the only person to get banned for that that actually tried to rp on a daily basis. These days the fact that he didn't just walk around control-clicking and his name wasn't "Deuce" would be considered laudible.

Because it will be important for the later history I mention here that Damien had planned certain extra rules for the player for his return to Illarion, such as only allowing him one character and requiring him to write an essay on his character's motivations.

That being said, this early history should be dismissed. It is irrelevant to what goes on today.

Round 2: Sam is banned unilaterally by a GM after being reported for attacking several players who couldn't speak English and thus were not aware of why they were being attacked. I and other GM's protested this ban successfully on the basis that not only is that not a rules violation, but even the report itself contained evidence that he tried several times to have everything be translated into German and the fault instead was in a non-responsive player; furthermore, it ended up that a certain amount of the players understood English and could have translated for their friends, but didn't. That being said, this should be strictly tossed off the record.

Round 3: Even as there were several threads on the GM boards about Sam's return to Illarion, and even one in which I attempted to remind Damien of the rules he had put together that were supposed to be enacted upon Sam on his return, Damien somehow completely had no idea that Sam had returned, after months. Finally stumbling upon the thread in which Sam's ban was revoked the week before, Damien unilaterally re-banned him on the basis that Sam didn't follow the rules of his return. This was again protested by a majority of the staff on the basis that it was the fault of the punisher being entirely unaware and not taking the responsibility of reading the GM boards.

This also should be tossed off the record--at the very least for Damien's sake.

That brings us to about a year's worth of quiet from the player and then here to the present.

What I find strange is that I come here so very little and I've seen a couple cases over that time of people being punished for being cruel to GM's. Sure, Japhy and I exed Konny back in the day for being a meany pants, but there was a difference. There was no getting rid of Konny. That was harassment, and you can't solve harassment without kicking the person out of the community. These people look more like the victims to me than the GM's do by any standard.

QFT

[Garett Gwenour]

Thanks Mitch

Seems Im still banned however and am not sure if they are following their rules (no gm was involved at the start only a dev, or pair of devs) or if they simply have *ignored* this case as I have not been sent a pm or email or been told in anyway wether i am perma banned or temp banned or whatever.

[Japheth]

Send a mail to Gm Abuse.

[Rugh'toh]

I am not involved in that case in any way, I only have read these postings here. And I don't say that the ban was right or wrong.
I only have the feeling that it sometimes is better to shut up complaining in public and do things in private...

[Aristeaus]

At times done in private dont bare the same results as when its bought to the publics eyes.

[Gildon]

Also when you threaten to bring certain things to the public, certain staff will threaten to do worse things to you. *cough*

[Arameh]

Send a mail to Gm Abuse.

Is it really doing anything? I can hardly believe it is, I had sent several messages about some player abuses and didnt even get an answer for most of them, dunno if GM abuse is the same, but if the whole staff team works together, I dont think the secret staff member reading those will do anything.

[Retlak]

GM abuse most likely goes to the abusing staff member anyway.

[Japheth]

The secret staff member is neutral and has very little interaction with the rest of the staff, bar investigating cases of GM Abuse. When I was a GM, s/he would post to the GM board frequently when a new case arose, trying to get to the depth of the problem.

However, as it's Christmas, as far as I'm aware, this staff member is on temporary leave.

[Japheth]

GM abuse most likely goes to the abusing staff member anyway.

No, it isn't. It's sent to a staff member who uses a specific GM Abuse identity on the GM boards. Or at least it was when I worked here.

[Gildon]

GM Abuse does something, trust in that. S/he got Rankor unbanned, as he rightfully should have been at the begining *tuts at Nitram*

[GM_complaint]

I'm here and active.
Normally I fetch mails more than once a day. If I get a mail, I answer at once back, that I got your mail and will have a look at the case.
It may happen sometimes, that I'm away from PC for a few days or that the mailfolder at the provider is full.
If you don't get a response within two days, send a PM to me, asking if I hadn't become the mail.

I'm as neutral as I can be. I'm no Dev and no GM and have no char playing an important active role in the game.
I have access to the GM-boards and to the data base and can verify informations by myself.
Being neutral does also mean, I don't speak for the favour of the players all the time.

The sense of GM-Abuse was always to have a neutral place to report because of abuses.
The mainly point in installing it was if one GM abuses his power, like banning people for really no reason, giving items to his own player character with GM tools, giving advantage to his own player chars or to chars of his friends etc.
In this cases I have a veto and can change decisions.
But concerning decisions of the whole staff like most player bans (discussed and voted on the GM-boards by all GMs and Devs), I have one vote like the others and the chance to bring in new aspects and new ways of looking at the case.
This is the power I haveas GM-Abuse.

[Quinasa]

There's your answer.

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