Request

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:30 pm

Yeah this is a topic about penalties for being clouded. I don't know who convinced the devs to change it or why it was changed but I was perfectly fine the previous, if you die you lose massive skill and you drop all your items, punishment for death. Because behold people actually cared if they were going to be killed, far more then it is now. As it is now, Stephen can be clouded, he might drop 1 item of armor, he won't lose any significant skill and he can come back the next day and get revenge for being killed. I do not think that is how it should be played. In the past, with the old penalties, if Stephen was killed, he went from bright yellow kill to yellow green, he lost all his items and if he tried to get revenge he would find out he was significantly weaker and may face the same fate going at it again.

Pros and Cons to be wieghed, i really want to see what you guys think.

ps - i leave out the whole "Assasin character is useless with this current punishment system" for someone else to argue.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:32 pm

People just have to start rp'ing better, simply. I admit I used to be like "Ha I've put away my items so if you kill me it won't matter" in my first month. Just make sure they know pain

Paladin of Light · Post by **Paladin of Light** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:34 pm

I think it is better because n00bs ((by n00bs i just mean new characters in this instance)) especially were getting screwed by the old system. I had a chracter with light green almost dark green and he got killed way the hell out in the middle of nowhere it took me over 5 minutes to reach a cross and my skills wenat all the way back to the beginning and I had no armor or weapons. It sucked. Also, I dide the other day and lost my sword, many many things in my bag, and everything on my belt. That is still a lot to lose if you are me and have a lot of things. ((Cool thing was I had double dropped and wished I had dropped my salk armor cuz then i would have had two...damn i almost got to abuse that bug

jk))

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:35 pm

I think ability damage is the best... temporary (one day or so)

-

I also would lyke a much larger skill loss, it would allow stuff lyke BULLYING to take place, and blackmail and assassins and the lyke.

"To smith: Give me half your profits or i'll kill you"
the smith knows he'll lose a good amount of skill or so, and pays up

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Currently, its very little, PLUS all the penalty from you is normally removed (you stole, you got killed, justice has been done , the end)..

I think P vs P kills should drain 1/5th of skill. Other kills (NPCies, very little)

Caldrion Sternenglanz · Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:44 pm

well, but with the old system they may have cause skill-kills. This i saw on another game, where groups/clans killed spezial charekters like smith or mages to low there skills and so the produktion of (magic) weapons.

If you play it well, you char is scared. Today i have had three nearly dead scenes and my char was scared - and this working in team.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:56 pm

item loss is one thing. and, imho, not important.

but skill loss is another matter. when clouded chars loose a lot of skills, it is like cementing the social system.
the one, who was weaker to start, looses. so he looses skills. the stronger char stays strong. so we will have even harder than now the problem, that half a dozen uberchars influence everything and everybody.

for the rest of the players this will be frustrating.
they would have only two chances to get up:
either powergaming somwhere in a quiet place, to become strong enough, or to band together, to kill and rekill the strong chars.

i somewhat like the idea of temporary lowered skills.
so the "go-to-the-cross-to-the-dpot-and-back-to-fight" type of players are hindered seriously, without turning everybody into powergamers.

Samantha Meryadeles · Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:57 pm

there is already a temporary attribute punishment for crossvisit planned and on the scripting. it will be in the game soon. than you will have lowered attributes for an amount of time as a sign that you just got killed and revived.

Post by **Nitram** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:15 pm

Exactly patric.

All attributes to 1 for a month and all is fine

Nitram

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:30 pm

Yeah that would own.

Samantha Meryadeles · Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:35 pm

isnt attribute 1 like being completly passed out and not able to do any action or even speak and think?

yay...we play for 1 rl month a coma patient!

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:44 pm

i think, it would be enough, if strength and constitution go down to three.
then the char could not lift an axe, wear no armor, and could not run.
the ideal time, to do some sewing, or so...

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:10 am

Korm Kormsen wrote:i think, it would be enough, if strength and constitution go down to three.
then the char could not lift an axe, wear no armor, and could not run.
the ideal time, to do some sewing, or so...

I'm here with you, except that with STR of 3 is a bit too restrictive (In the terms of what the character can wear and such). Con of 3 should already pretty much guarantee that you will be cut to pieces if you try to fight again.

Also, the "downtime" for the characters should not be excessive.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:22 am

how about 24 hours? after that the half back for another 24 hours?
being clouded would be taken serious then.

Isilwen · Post by **Isilwen** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:30 am

Korm Kormsen wrote:how about 24 hours? after that the half back for another 24 hours?
being clouded would be taken serious then.

People would just log out. It should have to be a certain amount of ingame time...maybe an hour or so.

Caldrion Sternenglanz · Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:31 am

by lock out for 3 days?

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:48 am

The flaw in this is everyone is assuming the only people who die are fighters. lets not forget about foolish mages who run through mouths, theives or just dumb people who get into fights. If they have low consti it wont really hurt them.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:51 am

I agree that penaltys should be raised slightly, skill loss should not be too high, but I think we should drop all items when dieing.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:54 am

The only problem I see with this is that adding penalties to death means more powergaming. Like you for example Sam. You mention in your thread that once killed you lost a great amount of skill ( going all the way down to light green?) That muti skill loss item loss was in affect around 1 month ago and only lasted for one. Now supposily you can not be pwned? Can I ask how you got your skill to unbeatable in 1-2 months?

Powergaming I suspect. Which is why this wouldn't work.

swish1 · Post by **swish1** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:55 am

I think that you should not be able to play for a week if you get ghosted..

Azuros · Post by **Azuros** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:57 am

swish1 wrote:I think that you should not be able to play for a week if you get ghosted..

O_O God no...

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:02 am

Grant wrote:The only problem I see with this is that adding penalties to death means more powergaming. Like you for example Sam. You mention in your thread that once killed you lost a great amount of skill ( going all the way down to light green?) That muti skill loss item loss was in affect around 1 month ago and only lasted for one. Now supposily you can not be pwned? Can I ask how you got your skill to unbeatable in 1-2 months?

Powergaming I suspect. Which is why this wouldn't work.

Youre dumb

Making highter skill losses wont make people powergame more, its the opposite. Sane people will prefer to train their character in a system in which they cant lose skill than in a system where you lose loads of skill when dieing (Sam dosent count, we all know he isnt sane). If more skill loss is put, it will discourage people in powergaming, because they will know their efforts can be put to 0 once they get clouded, if they arent careful. It also put fear of death into characters..or at least players..we all know only a very few amount of people RP death decently

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:05 am

Nope, your dumb.

If your in a system where everytime you die you lose skill then you won't go around with shitty skills just to lose everything and most of your shitty pee green skills. If someone is smart they'll pg till they pwn ass and then they'll never die.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:09 am

Grant wrote:Nope, your dumb.

If your in a system where everytime you die you lose skill then you won't go around with shitty skills just to lose everything and most of your shitty pee green skills. If someone is smart they'll pg till they pwn ass and then they'll never die.

...

even with maxed skill its easy to get clouded, you just need to find Samantha in a pissy mood

and no, its only you who is that sort of 'smart'

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:36 am

Grant wrote:The only problem I see with this is that adding penalties to death means more powergaming. Like you for example Sam. You mention in your thread that once killed you lost a great amount of skill ( going all the way down to light green?) That muti skill loss item loss was in affect around 1 month ago and only lasted for one. Now supposily you can not be pwned? Can I ask how you got your skill to unbeatable in 1-2 months?

Powergaming I suspect. Which is why this wouldn't work.

its pretty funny that your complaining so much about powergaming lately Grant. Your the same person who tried to get me to help you give items from one of your characters to the other, same person who managed to get your character Grant Rothman to green skills within a weeks time and the same person who did this about 4 times as you repeatedly remade him and continually drop traded the items over and over again?

lol your a walking joke.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:39 am

Nah, it was three times.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:50 am

I agree pretty much all items should be lost on death. To loose your uber-sword of pwnage or armor that cost you a week to earn money for is a pretty big risk even if you can simply buy another one. I think it should be harder to loose skills the better you get at them, a master swordsman isn't going to forget things he's been practicing for a decade, whereas if he'd been looking for herbs a few months he'd forget what he would have learned much more easily. This way if people die high multi-skillers would be penalized the most, and more focused skillers would suffer only minorly. I like the "death sickness" thing too, where you loose attributes and skills and they slowly restore. This gives opportunities for druid and preist magic to expediate this penalty as well keep people from healing and gathering friends and retaliating (WoW anyone?).

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:24 am

i disagree with losing more skills or all items. that is too much frustrating and not really helpfull. there can ever be a situation where you die, even if you are carefully. and loosing all items means mostly lossing everything you have.

That will also boost the amount of bandits running around and killing you immediatelly because you lose everything you got. too many will abuse that for itemhunting. why doing just rp and getting a few coins or some item when you can get everything the otherone has with killing him.

greater skillloss and itemloss will just mean more frustration by the player and the slow destroy of fun at the game. you dont want to work for many month again just to gain back what you lost through one dead. not when you are not like some peoples here who gain easily skills and items.

it doesnt surprise me that stephen and arameh suggest something like that. they are those with the huge amount of weapons and armors they have. losing all items is of course for such powerfull characters like them which have everything they need in masses no big problem. but for all the others.

so why making something that benefits those who have everything and punishs that players whose characters got few? that will just produce an unfair situation between players concentrating mostly on skill and itemgaining and those who concentrate mostly on roleplaying.

Caldrion Sternenglanz · Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:59 am

I agree 100%ly with Patric.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:05 am

So why don't we just turn off all skill loss and item loss and disable open pvp so we can all live in a happy fun land of bunnies and magical cupcakes?

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:59 am

loosing all items, does that necessarily mean, that the winner has to find all items?
could it not be, that on death you loose everything, but the winner finds just one item?