Price for cake and fine clothing

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Tue Dec 31, 2002 11:53 am

I think that Eliza should pay more for cakes and fine clothes like robes and wizard hats. I think peasants didn't get to eat cake all the time and wear beautiful garments like the nobles so it should be worth more. It's also not very profitable to be a baker or tailor right now compared to smiths which too many people seem to be. If you want to be just a baker without having to farm grain or a tailor who just wants to sew you have to invest 2 gold for the starting resource of everything you make and the best that the master of these profession could make only sells for 6 gold each, and a lot of these items are rarely bought by players so the most profit per item is only 4 gold each. It also takes a lot more time to complete baking or tailoring but the profit is only so measly. I think a rich merchant like Eliza should pay more for such noble items and maybe high level tailored items like fullleather armor too, as well to help make the professions of baker and tailor more attractive. Of course then the price for cakes sold by the human would need to be changed too.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 12:15 am

Hmm, bringing it back to the top. Any comments? We need to help our poor bakers and tailors

Christiana · Post by **Christiana** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 12:30 am

i think its a good idea because it is much more difficult to produce cloak or a cake as to produce a dagger.

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 12:35 am

Most commerce in the game is encouraged player to player instead of player to store.

This is why Eliza pays little for items that players would consider valuable (plate mail, now gems, etc..).

Being a mediocre blacksmith (every now and then I make master) I make about 2 gold on each dagger I sell (my main item for making money). This is not a lot of gold.

If you are making 4 gold profit on each, you are doing better than I am.

When I get better at blacksmithing, I'll be able to make, consistantly, items that I can sell for 6 gold each. With many fairures nonetheless (master blacksmith items have a high failure rate).

My tailor, who is a master, also make 2 gold for each pair of pants he makes.

Profit from the store generally seems to revolve around 2 to 6 gold depending on item and craft.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 2:13 am

Yeah, but unlike platemail. Cake is an item that players rarely ever buy. One can't make a living from selling cakes to other players. Especially since the shop sells them for 8 gold each, so you're doomed to make only a profit of 4 gold from Eliza and no more than 6 gold from selling to other players if you're ever so lucky to find a buyer. And that's only if you're a MASTER baker. If things stay the way there are now, no one will be attracted to the proffession of baker and tailor either, and we hardly have any of those. The whole town is just blacksmiths mostly.

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 4:23 am

im almost a master baker, i have sold hundreds of cakes to eliza, thats where i make almost all my money, i almost never fail in maieng bread and every 7 or 8 cakes i will fail, no one buys cakes because you can spend about 4 more gold and get a mana or healing potions which regernates you faster and you cant get full of them, cakes need a better use =(

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 4:25 am

blacksmithing wont be much of a great proffesion in the future, and new people dont realize that, because there are already dozens of master blacksmiths and they all have a huge amount of the finest smithable items

Sir Gannon · Post by **Sir Gannon** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 4:29 am

Im ok with the way the baking and tailoring system is right now. If you know what youre doing you can make a large prophit from either one.And its not that hard to become a master in either one even with 10X skill thing in effect now.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:18 am

Sure Gannon, you can make a profit out of anything if you don't factor time into the equation. Most people just bake or tailor for fun or to try it out, but nobody really does it for their main proffession and instead does blacksmithing or carpentry because it requires less work to prepare them so it can be completed in a shorter time, and even brings in more money. There's pretty much nobody in Illarion who bakes or tailors as their main source of income because it just isn't worth it.

Also the way cakes are priced now is unproportioned to other foods, it's only worth less than two bread rolls so every peasant can trade in two measly rolls for one whole beautiful delicious cake. I think the cakes should be a little closer to the worth of say noble instruments like harps at least.

Vindigan · Post by **Vindigan** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 1:08 pm

I'm a master baker and tailor but because of the time it takes to make cakes, it dosnt seem worth it selling them to Eliza so i guess i'll save them for like a celebration where a lot of food is neaded.

Vincente Squee · Post by **Vincente Squee** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 9:46 pm

Let me guess Dyluck did you just take up baking? Its a hard skill to raise but growing grain dosent take much and you get alot of it, but thats not the point, i know, i just wanted to give you some feedback

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 9:55 pm

hahaha...its a possibility that is true...or he has simply taken a liking to the ease of making cake... I honestly do not think that this suggestion is for the betterment of Illarion in general...but because someone wants a bigger profit margin.

But hey..thats my opinion.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:18 pm

@Vincent Squee: Read carefully. I said baker, not farmer. There's a difference.

Well of course I've been baking, how do you think I know that it takes longer and more work to complete and is less profitable than smithing and carpentry? I wouldn't present arguments if I didn't actually know what I was talking about. If you don't believe then make a new character and try to make your living as a peaceful peasant through either baking without farming or tailoring without fighting.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 11:17 pm

The problem does not lie in the price of cakes when creating a new character...its the fact that we are forced to become smiths and miners due to the fact that we have no diversity in what we start with...once we get the money to actually start farming and baking and what not, we all usually have enough money to support us anyways. Sure, it would be nice to have a raise in price, but I know that it is not a real necessity. It does not do anything more but make the already master baker/smiths more rich than they already are.

Dyluck...Read carefully, "Its a hard skill to raise but growing grain dosent take much and you get alot of it, but thats not the point, i know"

Squee knew that farming wasnt the point of your argument..perhaps you should do a little reading yourself.

Vincente Squee · Post by **Vincente Squee** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 11:39 pm

Well, Dyluck i was just stating something that i thought would sy and now it really dosent even matter too much, except for the fact that, the prices dont need to be changed and it shouldt really matter to you, Because we all know your wealth of your charater, head of the magic academy and all. its an honset earnig for us not so financially depent people

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:02 am

Cain Freemont wrote:once we get the money to actually start farming and baking and what not, we all usually have enough money to support us anyways. Sure, it would be nice to have a raise in price, but I know that it is not a real necessity. It does not do anything more but make the already master baker/smiths more rich than they already are.

You can also meet life's neccesities by being a waiter or garbageman. Why do you think people become systems analysts and lawyers? Why do you think there's a difference in pay?

Of course you don't see it as a important, since you don't depend on baking or tailoring as your only source of income. Nobody does, and nobody really thinks about this problem, because every just ends up becoming blacksmiths and carpenters. That's why they don't care, because there are no (or rarely, i wouldn't never be sure to say absolutely none) bakers and tailors.

Cain Freemont wrote: Dyluck...Read carefully, "Its a hard skill to raise but growing grain dosent take much and you get alot of it, but thats not the point, i know"

Squee knew that farming wasnt the point of your argument..perhaps you should do a little reading yourself.

There are certain rules to logic and reasoning in argumentation. If it's not part of your arguement, it's pointless to say "I know running doesn't have anything to do with weight lifting, but I can run fast."

Vincente Squee · Post by **Vincente Squee** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:31 am

Im sorry dyluck, well im not, nobody is ever really sorry. I have no logic when it comes to these things i say what just comes to me. And im not trying to insult anybodys intelligance. im done with this Argument i do know that i have no role in it. i just felt like commenting on your post. but i need to to explian myself anymore. so now this is between you and CAin

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:35 am

It's ok Squee. I just don't want to entertain the thought of farming into the equation for pure bakers.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 4:12 am

I think that instead of increasing the prices of tailored items and baked items having tailored items and baked items be of more use would be more beneficial. Because as Separdum said illarion is more about interaction with other players than with NPCs like Eliza. Having tailored and baked items be of more use would increase its market price among players. For example, there could be a cloak that hid you from view when you wear it....or a bread that helped you regain health more rapidly than any other food...These are just my wandering thoughts on this matter. I for one am interested in this matter as I am by main profession a tailor and by side profession a baker.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 4:21 am

I find it somewhat ironic that you are a tailor/baker by profession Elaralith. I am a baker/tailor

.

I agree that these things need more ingame use than just eating them and tacking on a minute amount of defense. Unfortunately I dont think that many people would still buy bread or cake if it was mroe rapid restoration for health and mana than any other food...there will still be mana and healing potions for that. If this idea was used (and it is a good idea), many things would have to be changed for this to work...mana/healing potions would probably have to be less effective and food potions would have to be either a specifically baker/druid item or just removed. (well that isnt necessarily true, but it would help even it out a bit) I like the idea of making tailored and baked good more useful, but I also believe it would take a lot more than just a simple change in function to do that.

Ellaron · Post by **Ellaron** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 4:37 am

We shouldn't have to wait for the game to force us to do things. I remember one of my characters trying to buy bread for a long journey but he couldn't find a baker. I think all we have to do is agree on a price amongst ourselves, cough..smacc. Another of my characters is quite often replacing armour and weapons due to "damage". I must admit though I rarely buy tailored items.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 4:41 am

Ellaron wrote: I think all we have to do is agree on a price amongst ourselves, cough..smacc.

Sorry I don't understand what you mean by this, at least for bakers and tailors. Even if we agree that cake and wizard hat should be 100 gold, what good is that if nobody buys these things?

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 7:03 am

Tailered items are already going to be rebalanced in coming changes.

Baking, however, is not being addressed at this time.

Ellaron · Post by **Ellaron** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 2:19 pm

Sorry I thought most people were aware of the SMACC price guide. I've no idea what smacc stands for by the way. It's a price guide on most items you can buy in the game. For instance cake 7G, rolls 3G, lute 200G. I know it's not perfect but it gives players the chance to work from a known price. I agree that the smacc price is low but there is no way you will ever get 100G for a cake. Bakers make their money by selling large amounts. I know this doesn't help you if nobody is buying your product but that's something we as players should address. We need to stop hoarding ourgold and start spending it.

Sir Gannon · Post by **Sir Gannon** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 7:26 pm

I still hold to the belif that if everything and i do mean EVERYTHING is 20 times harder to get everything will be worth more much more. But even if that happens cakes ans stuff would still be worth hardly nothing.... What if they made you regain health faster or something.... That would make players want them more...

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 10:31 pm

@Cain
Potions are more expensive than bread by a great margin though. So perhaps people with less money on their hands would choose bread as their option if it increased health more rapidly than any other food?

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 10:41 pm

Elaralith-

That is probably true, people with less money would prefer to purchase bread that restores health/mana more rapidly. Although, people tend to have a decent sum of money before they really get into combat and such.

Also, do you mean normal bread and then some other bread that heals more quickly, or make the normal bread heal more quickly?

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 10:53 pm

@ Cain Both ideas of yours are good. Perhaps there could be certain bread that increased health very rapidly. Almost like a natural cure. As they had in the medieval ages, bread with spice to cure colds. Having normal bread be more effective would also be welcome as of now it does not difer from apples in effectiveness too much.