Starting a Bank

swish1 · Post by **swish1** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:10 pm

Okay, I have an idea to have a char create a bank. You will get interest. Who would be interested in deposting? I dont want to start one and waste the whole thing because no one will deposit. And you can take loans

Edit: Also a place for exchanging curreny and also will a GM start me off with large amount of money so I can actually RP this?

Azuros · Post by **Azuros** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:12 pm

where have I seen this idea before...?

swish1 · Post by **swish1** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:13 pm

hmm.. no idea but is it good?

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:14 pm

Brer already did it but the climate of the game wasnt really as interested as it needed to be fore him to be successful. Perhaps now where people want money and will be spending money, large sums of it, for houses, it may well work this town around.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:14 pm

A. This has been done already.
B. Idea has been shown, what 3 times?
C. I doubt the GMs would push one of YOUR chars.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:19 pm

The problem is, that the banker does not earn money this way, for both deposits and loans. The banker does not earn anything from people's deposit, as they take it back with interests (so the banker money). As for loans, I am guessing most people would not pay back.

Skaalib Drurr · Post by **Skaalib Drurr** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:28 pm

Yeah, and can am GM give me loads of smithing skill so I can start a smithing business?

MAybe you should earn the money yourself if you want to do this. And the only way to figure out if it will really work is to try it.

Achae Eanstray · Post by **Achae Eanstray** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:35 pm

The only way I can see for the banker to make a profit and be able to pay interest (with possible loans in the future) is to require a minimum time the money has to stay in the bank before withdrawal. If no interest was given in withdrawal until after the first month, the banker could invest the money by buying and selling commodities during that time, then have a profit and be able to pay interest when the money is withdrawn. Sounds like a lot to do though.

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:40 pm

Achae Eanstray wrote:The only way I can see for the banker to make a profit and be able to pay interest (with possible loans in the future) is to require a minimum time the money has to stay in the bank before withdrawal. If no interest was given in withdrawal until after the first month, the banker could invest the money by buying and selling commodities during that time, then have a profit and be able to pay interest when the money is withdrawn. Sounds like a lot to do though.

Or just charge a higher interest rate on loans and less on deposits. Still, they don't pay you back.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:40 pm

Brer stole money from Fooser when he had a bank.

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:41 pm

Fooser wrote:Brer stole money from Fooser when he had a bank.

Fooser gave him counterfeit money.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:44 pm

Should be a GM run bank.

And then the character should build up trust.

Then when he has enough money he can run away and donate it to Caelum.

Then Caelum let it blow over before announcing they've finally raised enough money to build.

Muahaha.

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:14 pm

will a GM start me off with large amount of money so I can actually RP this?

Theon · Post by **Theon** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:17 pm

I think a bank would be good, hard to manage and develop, but good. Though, not if it required GMs for financial issues, that would not be so good.

Xonogor · Post by **Xonogor** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:33 pm

It should be run by the game.. programmed in. You cant really trust some people. And if they take any loans, and dont pay back, they can't use the bank ever again unless they do. I think people will just use their depots... safest way. Just do your own work, and earn it. Find a way.

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:35 pm

Swish, I think the main problem is that no-one would trust one of your characters to hold their money.

The only way anyone would deposit money is if they "Trust" the banker. It is well-known that your characters are always "Hard-up" for money and begging everyone to give him a job. I'd forget the idea if I were you.

My character Dusty has considered a bank, but with all the conflict and little incentive to pay back loans, it's a bad idea at the time.

The only way it would work is if "property" were held as collateral, or a lein held against an owned building, but the local government would have to enforce it. At the time, it is problematic at best.

I don't think a player-run bank will ever work.
What we really need is a bank developed IG by the Devs and maintained by an NPC, with real "consequences" against your charcter if loans aren't repaid such as a "block" preventing your character from using any NPC merchants or even "disappearing" random items from your depot to repay the loan. I don't know if it can be developed or not. Just an idea.

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:53 pm

I think that'd take some coding, and some bugs, and some whining, and when the server decides to crash, your money may go bye bye.

Don't think it's a good idea just yet.

Post by **Vilarion** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:27 pm

I am strictly against giving out money to players. You will have to use the money you have or can get I am afraid

Maybe there will be an IG bank when we find some time. But right now there are more important things to do.

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:45 pm

The best and propably only real investment a char can make is to spent his money, time and work to people which want to build or to young and motivated chars who want to be good and needed crafters. So if they become better in making items the char who helped could get back his money in kind of tradeable goods. The risc is, that the player of the crafter could set wrong attributes, so that the crafter never could be a master, or that the player of the crafter lose his motivation and deletes his char or stops skill gaining and crafting itself before he can pay back all the investments in his person and his goals.

Therefore the costumers of banks are people which needs lots of money to can work for their goals more easier (by buying of raw materials instead of making them hisself). So the bank needs money to invest in low-risc projects, needs rich chars, which are the owners of the bank or give money to the bank.

The bank never only can be a storage of money. The money has to work! The bak has to look around for new money and good projects which can earn profit.

The system sounds easy but is very difficult. You need a real economy, the breaking of stuff, the permanent need of stuff, a stream of money and no endless sink of it in the depots of the players. And you need a good number of players which have active chars for long time.

Pronon Palmsuger · Post by **Pronon Palmsuger** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:58 am

The problem is that the bank can't break your legs if you don't pay up. Res killing is against the rules and normal killing doesn't serve as a decent punishment. Jail times are severly limited because

A. they don't have to play during their jail sentence and

B. The players would wine if they got thrown in prison for extended periods of time.

The bank operates because we don't want hte concsequences of not paying. In illarion there are no consequences.

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:30 am

Also, in real life not only do you get your legs broken when you don't pay your bills but other financial institutions won't deal with you, and your life is pretty well shot. In Illarion, no one cares, just like no one cares if you're doing evil deeds all day.

I wouldn't be so quick to take money from someone who'd just as soon counterfit money... but as long as that's impossible technically we'll just rp that no one would think of that, right?

I salute Brer's attempt at getting a bank off the ground and how long he managed to do it. He also wasn't such a pansy that he asked for any special treatment for it. However, at the end of the day, it doesn't work, and it won't work until we can trust people to rp honestly when it comes to monetary concerns and such.

We're all too much used to living in a time and place where the governments are actively hunting down counterfitters, conmen, and indentity thieves. Welcome to the middle ages when there is no financial security beyond the honesty of whomever you deal with.

swish1 · Post by **swish1** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:43 am

Pronon Palmsuger wrote: In illarion there are no consequences.

That is it we have to create a tax that everyone pays so people dont get filthy rich and just keep buying things

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:28 am

I see no need for a bank. Your money is safe in a depot, anyone who can't hold their money in a depot has waaaay too much and should invest in a building or something.

loans are the only reason to have a bank, and most chars simply can't be trusted with a loan. It's like many of the students I had for smithing. I give them the tools, and tell them they owe me 300 coppers. After that, they quit Illarion.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:33 am

What is a bank? Someone or a group with alot of money basically. Clearly theres no need for a central bank, if these richest chars know a active character who needs a loan for something and is trustworthy to pay it back they can loan it. A central bank isn't suited for the situation.

swish1 · Post by **swish1** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:43 am

I know we get GM Guards. If not paid back in time we take away from their depot using GM.
I want to start a bank that only gives loans no storage..

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:49 am

what if there's no money in their depot?

besides, the last thing we need is another chore for the gm's.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:59 am

swish1 wrote:I know we get GM Guards. If not paid back in time we take away from their depot using GM.
I want to start a bank that only gives loans no storage..

Don't you get how a bank works? They make money off the money that people put into their bank. Why don't we just skip the courtesies and make "gm loans".

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:12 am

Juniper Onyx wrote:I don't think a player-run bank will ever work.

Alright, I hope I am going to eat those words.

Without GM help to start a bank, I guess we'll just have to keep trying.

I have decided to try to start a bank, based on ideas from several months ago, an interview with Brer Beotach, and my own experiences, so we'll see if it is possible. I have implemented many incentives and changes to the way Banks were operated in the past. It should open very soon.

I am using my own funds to start this, and won't risk anyone's deposits. I only hope it works, otherwise, it'll be another project I've thrown money at, but it's worth a try.

If it works, hopefully others will open other banks elsewhere using some form of the changes I've made.

We'll see.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:49 am

Equally I have planned to start a similar bank for the lands of Kallahorn, eventually when they are grown and matured enough I hope to be able to open a bank that will be (as you can assume from stephens credit) massively rich and can last for a long time.

I believe now that people will want to build houses and add things to those houses loans will be possible. As well as the recent influx of crafters lately, (Hugreu, Gilbert, Krall, a few carpenters) their products will be basically the only ones out in the market and as such I they will be rather expensive. Again, another reason for loans.

Good luck po dusty.

Skaalib Drurr · Post by **Skaalib Drurr** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:19 am

Garett Gwenour wrote:. As well as the recent influx of crafters lately, (Hugreu, Gilbert, Krall, a few carpenters)

Hey, what about Skaalib?