Let's take a little time and examine the current situation in Illarion.
As you know, the email application system and other technical changes are soon to come. I for one, am not sure if these changes will benefit Illarion yet at this time.
Of all people, I would be one of the first to know that the dream of Illarion is having the best roleplaying atmosphere we can. But this dream isn't achieved so easily just by trying to take leaps and bounds. As programmers, they are developing the technics of Illarion, but there's also another fundamental component of our dream that's in development called the community and the people. Whether you believe it or not, some technical changes can affect the community and reduce roleplaying, even though the goal of the technical change was supposed to increase it, just like what happened when the magic system was changed. The relationship between Illarion as a "game" and Illarion as a "world" is not so simple as you may think, and are intertwined more so than you might understand. You can't just expect things to fall into place properly if you don't take into account the progress of the roleplaying community when you are trying to progress the game development. The roleplaying community right now is unstable and not big enough for some things (that were meant to help improve roleplaying) to achieve its desired effect, and instead creates a counter effect that decreases roleplaying instead. I believe that the email application will not serve as a lightning rod that will bring the roleplaying up a huge knot, but instead should be used as more of a final touch method when we have gotten a sufficient amount of roleplayers through smaller steps that do not have risky results at this time. I think that many people in the development team lack understanding of what the situation in Illarion is really like and are under a lot of misconceptions and false assumptions about the people and problems in Illarion and why there aren't as many roleplayers as we'd like to have. I beleive there are a lot of things that you can only fully understand Illarion if you play in it for an long extended period of time, not by just seeing through a theoretical looking glass. In the time that I've spent in Illarion, I believe that I've gained a better understanding of the "world" of Illarion better than just about anyone else.
What is the biggest problem in Illarion today? Some people think it because of PKs and rule violators. Other think it's the lack of roleplayers. I would side with the latter, but not as simple an explanation. Some people herald me as one of the best roleplayers in Illarion, but I don't think this is quite true. There are some people out there who can roleplay better than me, but why am I the one who gets recognition? I believe it's because I create stories and quests that can involve large amounts of people and get their attention. Many people can roleplay and act like their character and make a background story, but few people have the ability to interact their story in a way that can draw the involvement of many people. Even the finest roleplayers sometimes run out of things to do in Illarion. You can only tell your background story to every person you meet so many times before it grows tiresome. "Roleplay" eventually becomes nothing more than chatting with your friends. There just isn't a very involving and ongoing storyline to get into. Back when Drakhen Vorkalion first appeared, it was like a golden age when everyone felt involved in one big story of Illarion. Many people tried to connect stories to the event, and even though some did a poor job of it, it was a good step towards the right idea with no drawbacks. Illarion needs more massive story involvements, and people respond especially well to GM lead stories.
I believe that if Illarion is to achieve it's dream, it has to take some smaller steps with no drawback instead of taking big leaps with contreversial results. One thing that really bothers me is the website. I mean sure it was a nice new design and all, but it hasn't done anything to attract more roleplayers and less non-roleplayers. If anything, the more attractive design has only served to attract more players in general, including the players that we DON'T want. When you enter the first page of Illarion's website, all you see is that it is just another online rpg, so how do you expect it to attract good roleplayers? Why isn't there anything on the first page to specify right away that this game focuses on roleplaying and gives a good definition of it? And specify that this game is not about leveling up and hunting monsters and no global chat etc, to turn away those kinds of players? I'll even write it for you if you want. I think this is one of those simple things that can be done which brings many benefits to Illarion and has no drawbacks.
One other comment about the "story" link. Don't you think it should be placed higher in it's column instead of something like "screenshots" as the first link? And no offense to the story of the eagle, its a nice piece of writing, but I don't think it seems really appealing or brings much interest to the game. I would just link directly to moonsilver instead.
Thank you for your time.
Illarion - reviewing the current siuation
Moderator: Gamemasters
This has many good points and I think everyone should read it. Here is a German translation.
Lassen Sie uns eine wenig Zeit dauern und die gegenwärtige Lage in
Illarion überprüfen.
Wie Sie wissen, sollen das email Anwendung System und andere
technische Änderungen bald kommen. I für ein, morgens nicht sicher,
wenn diese Änderungen Illarion dennoch diesmal fördern.
Aller Leute würde ich einer vom ersten sein, zum zu wissen, daß der
Traum von Illarion die beste roleplaying Atmosphäre hat, die wir
können. Aber dieser Traum wird so leicht nicht erzielt, gerade indem
man versucht, Sprünge und Grenzen zu nehmen. Als Programmierer
entwickeln sie das technics von Illarion, aber es gibt auch einen
anderen grundlegenden Bestandteil unseres Traums, der in der
Entwicklung ist, die die Gemeinschaft und die Leute genannt wird. Ob
Sie ihm glauben oder nicht, können etwas technische Änderungen die
Gemeinschaft beeinflussen und roleplaying sich verringern, obwohl das
Ziel der technischen Änderung erhöhen sollte sie, gerade wie, was
geschah, als das magische System geändert wurde. Das Verhältnis
zwischen Illarion als "Spiel" und Illarion als "Welt" ist nicht also
einfach, wie Sie denken können, und wird mehr also
ineinandergegriffen, als Sie verstehen konnten. Sie können nicht
Sachen gerade erwarten, um in Platz richtig zu fallen, wenn Sie nicht
in Betracht den Fortschritt der roleplaying Gemeinschaft ziehen, wenn
Sie versuchen, weiterzukommen die Spielentwicklung. Die roleplaying
Gemeinschaft ist im Augenblick und nicht groß genug für einige
Sachen (die bedeutet wurden, um zu helfen das Roleplaying, zu
verbessern), instabil seinen gewünschten Effekt zu erzielen und
erstellt anstatt einen Gegeneffekt, der anstatt roleplaying
verringert. Ich glaube, daß die email Anwendung nicht als Blitzstange
dient, die das Roleplaying herauf einen sehr großen Knoten holt, aber
als mehr einer abschließenden Note Methode anstatt verwendet werden
sollte, wenn wir eine genügende Menge roleplayers durch kleinere
Jobsteps erhalten haben, die riskante Resultate nicht diesmal haben.
Ich denke, daß viele Leute im Entwicklung Team Verständnis
ermangeln, von was die Situation in Illarion wirklich wie ist und
unter einer Menge Mißverständnisse und falsche Annahmen über die
Leute und Probleme in Illarion ist und von warum es nicht bis zu
roleplayers gibt, wir haben möchten. I beleive dort sind eine Menge
Sachen, denen Sie kann Illarion, wenn Sie in ihm während eines langen
ausgedehnten Zeitabschnitts spielen, nicht indem Sie gerade nur
völlig verstehen durch ein theoretisches Schauen Glas sehen. An die
Zeit, die ich in Illarion verbracht habe, glaube ich, daß ich ein
besseres Verständnis der "Welt" von Illarion besser als gerade über
jedermann sonst gewonnen habe.
Was ist das größte Problem in Illarion heute? Einige Leute denken es
wegen PKs und der Richtlinie Übertreter. Anderes denken, daß es der
Mangel an roleplayers ist. Ich würde mit dem letzten, aber nicht als
einfaches eine Erklärung mit Seiten versehen. Einige Leute kündigen
mich als eins der besten roleplayers in Illarion an, aber ich denke
nicht, daß dieses ziemlich zutreffend ist. Es gibt einige Leute aus
dort, wer Dose roleplay besseres als ich, aber warum morgens I das,
wer Anerkennung erhält? Ich glaube, daß es ist, weil ich Geschichten
und Suchen erstelle, die große Mengen Leute mit einbeziehen können
und erhalte ihrer Aufmerksamkeit. Die roleplay Dose vieler Leute und
die Tat wie ihr Zeichen und bilden eine Hintergrundgeschichte, aber
wenige Leute haben die Fähigkeit, zusammenzuwirken ihre Geschichte in
einer Methode, die die Miteinbeziehung vieler Leute zeichnen kann.
Sogar laufen die feinsten roleplayers manchmal aus Sachen heraus, um
in Illarion zu tun. Sie können Ihre Hintergrundgeschichte nur
erklären jeder Person, die Sie also viele Male treffen, bevor sie
tiresome wächst. "Roleplay" wird schließlich nichts mehr als,
plaudernd mit Ihren Freunden. Es gibt gerade nicht sehr mit
einbeziehen und ein fortwährendes storyline, zum in zu erhalten.
Ziehen Sie wenn Drakhen Vorkalion erschien zuerst zurück, es wie ein
goldenes Alter war, als jeder in einer grossen Geschichte von Illarion
beteiligt fühlte. Viele Leute, die versucht wurden, um Geschichten an
den Fall anzuschließen und obwohl einige erledigten eine schlechte
Arbeit von ihm, war es ein guter Jobstep in Richtung zur rechten Idee
ohne Nachteile. Illarion benötigt massivere
Geschichtemiteinbeziehungen, und Leute reagieren besonders gut auf GR.
Leitung Geschichten.
Ich glaube, daß, wenn Illarion erzielen soll, es Traum ist, es muß
einige kleinere Jobsteps ohne Nachteil unternehmen, anstatt, grosse
Sprünge mit contreversial Resultaten zu nehmen. Eine Sache, die mich
wirklich stört, ist die Web site. Ich bedeute, daß sicher sie ein
nettes neues Design und alle war, aber sie nicht nichts getan hat,
mehr roleplayers und weniger non-roleplayers anzuziehen. Wenn alles,
das attraktivere Design nur gedient hat, mehr Spieler im allgemeinen
anzuziehen, einschließlich die Spieler, die wir nicht wünschen. Wann
betreten Sie die erste Seite von Web site Illarions, alle, die Sie
sind sehen, daß sie ein anderer OnlinecRpg gerecht ist, also wie
erwarten Sie ihn, um gute roleplayers anzuziehen? Warum nicht gibt es
nichts auf der ersten Seite, sofort zu spezifizieren, daß dieses
Spiel auf das Roleplaying konzentriert und gibt eine gute Definition
von ihr? Und spezifizieren Sie, daß dieses Spiel nicht über oben und
Jagdebnen monster und kein globales Schwätzchen usw. ist, um jene
Arten der Spieler weg zu drehen? Ich schreibe es sogar für Sie, wenn
Sie wünschen. Ich denke, daß dieses eine jener einfachen Sachen ist,
die erfolgt werden können, das Illarion viel Nutzen holt und keine
Nachteile hat.
Ein anderes Kommentar über das "Geschichte" Link. Nicht denken Sie es
sollten in es stark gelegt werden sind Spalte anstelle von etwas wie
"screenshots" da das erste Link? Und keine Handlung zur Geschichte des
Adlers, seiner ein nettes Stück Schreiben, aber ich denken nicht,
daß sie wirklich anziehend scheint oder viel Interesse zum Spiel
holt. Ich würde gerade direkt mit moonsilver anstatt binden.
Danke während Ihrer Zeit.
Lassen Sie uns eine wenig Zeit dauern und die gegenwärtige Lage in
Illarion überprüfen.
Wie Sie wissen, sollen das email Anwendung System und andere
technische Änderungen bald kommen. I für ein, morgens nicht sicher,
wenn diese Änderungen Illarion dennoch diesmal fördern.
Aller Leute würde ich einer vom ersten sein, zum zu wissen, daß der
Traum von Illarion die beste roleplaying Atmosphäre hat, die wir
können. Aber dieser Traum wird so leicht nicht erzielt, gerade indem
man versucht, Sprünge und Grenzen zu nehmen. Als Programmierer
entwickeln sie das technics von Illarion, aber es gibt auch einen
anderen grundlegenden Bestandteil unseres Traums, der in der
Entwicklung ist, die die Gemeinschaft und die Leute genannt wird. Ob
Sie ihm glauben oder nicht, können etwas technische Änderungen die
Gemeinschaft beeinflussen und roleplaying sich verringern, obwohl das
Ziel der technischen Änderung erhöhen sollte sie, gerade wie, was
geschah, als das magische System geändert wurde. Das Verhältnis
zwischen Illarion als "Spiel" und Illarion als "Welt" ist nicht also
einfach, wie Sie denken können, und wird mehr also
ineinandergegriffen, als Sie verstehen konnten. Sie können nicht
Sachen gerade erwarten, um in Platz richtig zu fallen, wenn Sie nicht
in Betracht den Fortschritt der roleplaying Gemeinschaft ziehen, wenn
Sie versuchen, weiterzukommen die Spielentwicklung. Die roleplaying
Gemeinschaft ist im Augenblick und nicht groß genug für einige
Sachen (die bedeutet wurden, um zu helfen das Roleplaying, zu
verbessern), instabil seinen gewünschten Effekt zu erzielen und
erstellt anstatt einen Gegeneffekt, der anstatt roleplaying
verringert. Ich glaube, daß die email Anwendung nicht als Blitzstange
dient, die das Roleplaying herauf einen sehr großen Knoten holt, aber
als mehr einer abschließenden Note Methode anstatt verwendet werden
sollte, wenn wir eine genügende Menge roleplayers durch kleinere
Jobsteps erhalten haben, die riskante Resultate nicht diesmal haben.
Ich denke, daß viele Leute im Entwicklung Team Verständnis
ermangeln, von was die Situation in Illarion wirklich wie ist und
unter einer Menge Mißverständnisse und falsche Annahmen über die
Leute und Probleme in Illarion ist und von warum es nicht bis zu
roleplayers gibt, wir haben möchten. I beleive dort sind eine Menge
Sachen, denen Sie kann Illarion, wenn Sie in ihm während eines langen
ausgedehnten Zeitabschnitts spielen, nicht indem Sie gerade nur
völlig verstehen durch ein theoretisches Schauen Glas sehen. An die
Zeit, die ich in Illarion verbracht habe, glaube ich, daß ich ein
besseres Verständnis der "Welt" von Illarion besser als gerade über
jedermann sonst gewonnen habe.
Was ist das größte Problem in Illarion heute? Einige Leute denken es
wegen PKs und der Richtlinie Übertreter. Anderes denken, daß es der
Mangel an roleplayers ist. Ich würde mit dem letzten, aber nicht als
einfaches eine Erklärung mit Seiten versehen. Einige Leute kündigen
mich als eins der besten roleplayers in Illarion an, aber ich denke
nicht, daß dieses ziemlich zutreffend ist. Es gibt einige Leute aus
dort, wer Dose roleplay besseres als ich, aber warum morgens I das,
wer Anerkennung erhält? Ich glaube, daß es ist, weil ich Geschichten
und Suchen erstelle, die große Mengen Leute mit einbeziehen können
und erhalte ihrer Aufmerksamkeit. Die roleplay Dose vieler Leute und
die Tat wie ihr Zeichen und bilden eine Hintergrundgeschichte, aber
wenige Leute haben die Fähigkeit, zusammenzuwirken ihre Geschichte in
einer Methode, die die Miteinbeziehung vieler Leute zeichnen kann.
Sogar laufen die feinsten roleplayers manchmal aus Sachen heraus, um
in Illarion zu tun. Sie können Ihre Hintergrundgeschichte nur
erklären jeder Person, die Sie also viele Male treffen, bevor sie
tiresome wächst. "Roleplay" wird schließlich nichts mehr als,
plaudernd mit Ihren Freunden. Es gibt gerade nicht sehr mit
einbeziehen und ein fortwährendes storyline, zum in zu erhalten.
Ziehen Sie wenn Drakhen Vorkalion erschien zuerst zurück, es wie ein
goldenes Alter war, als jeder in einer grossen Geschichte von Illarion
beteiligt fühlte. Viele Leute, die versucht wurden, um Geschichten an
den Fall anzuschließen und obwohl einige erledigten eine schlechte
Arbeit von ihm, war es ein guter Jobstep in Richtung zur rechten Idee
ohne Nachteile. Illarion benötigt massivere
Geschichtemiteinbeziehungen, und Leute reagieren besonders gut auf GR.
Leitung Geschichten.
Ich glaube, daß, wenn Illarion erzielen soll, es Traum ist, es muß
einige kleinere Jobsteps ohne Nachteil unternehmen, anstatt, grosse
Sprünge mit contreversial Resultaten zu nehmen. Eine Sache, die mich
wirklich stört, ist die Web site. Ich bedeute, daß sicher sie ein
nettes neues Design und alle war, aber sie nicht nichts getan hat,
mehr roleplayers und weniger non-roleplayers anzuziehen. Wenn alles,
das attraktivere Design nur gedient hat, mehr Spieler im allgemeinen
anzuziehen, einschließlich die Spieler, die wir nicht wünschen. Wann
betreten Sie die erste Seite von Web site Illarions, alle, die Sie
sind sehen, daß sie ein anderer OnlinecRpg gerecht ist, also wie
erwarten Sie ihn, um gute roleplayers anzuziehen? Warum nicht gibt es
nichts auf der ersten Seite, sofort zu spezifizieren, daß dieses
Spiel auf das Roleplaying konzentriert und gibt eine gute Definition
von ihr? Und spezifizieren Sie, daß dieses Spiel nicht über oben und
Jagdebnen monster und kein globales Schwätzchen usw. ist, um jene
Arten der Spieler weg zu drehen? Ich schreibe es sogar für Sie, wenn
Sie wünschen. Ich denke, daß dieses eine jener einfachen Sachen ist,
die erfolgt werden können, das Illarion viel Nutzen holt und keine
Nachteile hat.
Ein anderes Kommentar über das "Geschichte" Link. Nicht denken Sie es
sollten in es stark gelegt werden sind Spalte anstelle von etwas wie
"screenshots" da das erste Link? Und keine Handlung zur Geschichte des
Adlers, seiner ein nettes Stück Schreiben, aber ich denken nicht,
daß sie wirklich anziehend scheint oder viel Interesse zum Spiel
holt. Ich würde gerade direkt mit moonsilver anstatt binden.
Danke während Ihrer Zeit.
Re: Illarion - reviewing the current siuation
Sounds good.Dyluck wrote:Let's take a little time and examine the current situation in Illarion.
I can not speak for the magic system change, as I was not there for that, but your general statement seems to hold true. There are a lot of technical changes that need to be done to be able to produce a better RP environment, and ideas need to come from the player base. If something is done that you feel was to the detriment of RP, you should come up with another solution, an alternative, that fits better into an RP world.Dyluck wrote:...As programmers, they are developing the technics of Illarion, but there's also another fundamental component of our dream that's in development called the community and the people. Whether you believe it or not, some technical changes can affect the community and reduce roleplaying, even though the goal of the technical change was supposed to increase it, just like what happened when the magic system was changed.
I would to magically wave my wand and have all the changes that need to be done finished, and if we were to wait til everything was finished it would not be for years before a better version came out.
Things take time to develop, and the current new server version only has about 1/10th of the changes in the works. And every time some of these changes are implemented it is going to seem unbalanced because the rest of the changes aren't incorporated that was the reason some other things were changed. Like I said, it takes time.
I would tend to agree with that, and to be honest the application system was not meant to come out right now. There is a problem, however, with player numbers above 32767 that there is no immediate fix for. We are only aware of one of the things these characters can not do (spin) but I am sure there are others.Dyluck wrote:...I believe that the email application will not serve as a lightning rod that will bring the roleplaying up a huge knot, but instead should be used as more of a final touch method when we have gotten a sufficient amount of roleplayers through smaller steps that do not have risky results at this time.
It was decided that bringing the application system in now would stop as many new players coming in until we could fix the problem. And for the players with negative numbers that were approved it would be possible to find them numbers below 32767 from deleted characters we could give them.
That was the thinking on the matter. It seems worst for the system to simply stop new characters to be able to come in at all, which is the alternative. Unfortunately this was forced on us by things beyond our immediate control.
I do agree, however, that bringing the application system in at this immediate point in time is not neccessarily the best, and the main reason being that the player base simply ignored my warning that the application ssytem was going to be activated soon, and to send in their e-mail.
Here I must disagree with you. You fail to recognize that you do not see all the characters of the development team. All of us play other characters that we do not let known that are our characters (as no one should).Dyluck wrote: I think that many people in the development team lack understanding of what the situation in Illarion is really like and are under a lot of misconceptions and false assumptions about the people and problems in Illarion and why there aren't as many roleplayers as we'd like to have. I beleive there are a lot of things that you can only fully understand Illarion if you play in it for an long extended period of time, not by just seeing through a theoretical looking glass.
You also do not see the e-mails and private messages we get from players with their problems they do not let known to the populace.
You may be right.Dyluck wrote: In the time that I've spent in Illarion, I believe that I've gained a better understanding of the "world" of Illarion better than just about anyone else.
I believe it is a combination of the two mixed with other factors. Once it is easier for GMs to be able to deal with PKers and rule breakers in a *quiet* fashion, it will help aleviate both problems, but the first more than the second.Dyluck wrote: What is the biggest problem in Illarion today? Some people think it because of PKs and rule violators. Other think it's the lack of roleplayers. I would side with the latter, but not as simple an explanation.
It is not very conductive to RP when someone comes in with rude names, but it can be even less conductive with a GM running around trying to chase one down.
Part of the new server gives the GMs more tools to deal with players in a much quieter fashion.
I think you are probably one of the best role players in Illarion, if not the best, especially your ongoing story telling ability.Dyluck wrote:Some people herald me as one of the best roleplayers in Illarion, but I don't think this is quite true. There are some people out there who can roleplay better than me, but why am I the one who gets recognition? I believe it's because I create stories and quests that can involve large amounts of people and get their attention.
Again, I would agree with you on this. And again, part of the new server is to help with the story telling abilities of GMs, and perhaps some players. The new server, however, does not have these incorporated as of yet, but the neccessary core program changed that needed to be done to make this a reality. This problem is well recognized, but the GMs are currently limited to simply summoning monsters and items in their weaving of stories. It is planned for a whole lot more so that event stories are possible with more depth and realism.Dyluck wrote:Many people can roleplay and act like their character and make a background story, but few people have the ability to interact their story in a way that can draw the involvement of many people. Even the finest roleplayers sometimes run out of things to do in Illarion. You can only tell your background story to every person you meet so many times before it grows tiresome. "Roleplay" eventually becomes nothing more than chatting with your friends. There just isn't a very involving and ongoing storyline to get into.
Also this gives the ability to add running quests when the map is moved into a database. The current server lacks this ability.
I would agree with that. And is again one of the main changes of the new server. To make it easier to do just this.Dyluck wrote:Back when Drakhen Vorkalion first appeared, it was like a golden age when everyone felt involved in one big story of Illarion. Many people tried to connect stories to the event, and even though some did a poor job of it, it was a good step towards the right idea with no drawbacks. Illarion needs more massive story involvements, and people respond especially well to GM lead stories.
Unfortunately the sheer mass of the required changes involved make this unfeasable. You probably saw very few changes in the new server .vs. the old one, because the majority of the changes were behind the scenes to give the backbone needed for the things to come. There were many little bug fixes but there was only really 3 or 4 things noticable to the players that have changed.Dyluck wrote:I believe that if Illarion is to achieve it's dream, it has to take some smaller steps with no drawback instead of taking big leaps with contreversial results.
It is interesting that the most complaints are about one thing, the lack of entry and exit messages. From day one I found the smilies :) :( very annoying and would have taken the smilies out if not asked to remove them completely.
As I have stated in other posts, give us an alternative to them that stays in the RP theme, I even mentioned a few possiblities, but no one has responded.
The web page design is not of my control but others, notably Alatar, but I am quite sure that Alatar would welcome suggestions. I believe this is the first I have heard (besides your other posts after the new server was introduced) about people not finding the web page very suggestive of RP.Dyluck wrote:One thing that really bothers me is the website. I mean sure it was a nice new design and all, but it hasn't done anything to attract more roleplayers and less non-roleplayers. If anything, the more attractive design has only served to attract more players in general, including the players that we DON'T want. When you enter the first page of Illarion's website, all you see is that it is just another online rpg, so how do you expect it to attract good roleplayers? Why isn't there anything on the first page to specify right away that this game focuses on roleplaying and gives a good definition of it? And specify that this game is not about leveling up and hunting monsters and no global chat etc, to turn away those kinds of players? I'll even write it for you if you want. I think this is one of those simple things that can be done which brings many benefits to Illarion and has no drawbacks.
It probably should be placed higher in the column.Dyluck wrote:One other comment about the "story" link. Don't you think it should be placed higher in it's column instead of something like "screenshots" as the first link? And no offense to the story of the eagle, its a nice piece of writing, but I don't think it seems really appealing or brings much interest to the game. I would just link directly to moonsilver instead.
As for the Eagle story, I liked it myself as it gave me a sense of location.
The link to moonsilver should probably be made bigger or moved up or both though.
There are going to be growing pains which are extremly hard to avoid in any game.
Especially in a *BETA* game.
-
Sevious Helios
- Posts: 417
- Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 12:16 am
- Location: United States-Alton
About that new application system serpardum. What you said has gotten me worried. I have sent in my responses to both emails they sent me and like it stated in the sticky board thing gm's probably wont respond. How do we know if we were approved or not? Any thing you can tell me would be appreciated.
-
Grishnak Bloodlust
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2002 3:39 am
- Contact:
Serpadum came up with the important issue of vulgar names:
Just a though . . . Bye!
Perhaps the new server could itentify certain vulgar words and refuse that the character be created. This would all happen in the 'Create Character' window, and the reason for the denial would be displayed like when you try and make a char with the same name as an existing one. I'm sure the programers could figure some kind of . . . equation for doing this, and like Serpadum says, there would be no 'GM running around trying to chase one down.'It is not very conductive to RP when someone comes in with rude names, but it can be even less conductive with a GM running around trying to chase one down.
Just a though . . . Bye!
-
Cosmaterra
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2001 2:11 pm
- Location: Fairytale
I agree with Fieps, its easier to read and unterstand it with the pure english version cause the translater isent that good 
@dyluck
im a bit tyred about your storys and so on, i often try to tell you about our changes and our goals, but you never leave a good thing on it. For your roleplay, you leave illarion for a few months cause you were mad about the new magic system. if other people go incause about the new changes they should. this is a price we are willing to pay.
This game is in a testversion that means that current changes can come every day, and there were a couple of changes since im here, and there a player around who are longer here as me, playing an testing and they like the game.
Now application system is comming, and we will never step back of it, we talk about it since six months. and we work on a storyside for this website, but the offical storyline you find at moonsilver.de. maybe we dont want hunderts and hunderts of player. im behind the changes and like them. yeah we know we got a lot of things to do in the future, but im really tiered about to hear everytime we change a bit, some people who are trying to stop this...
im not native english so sorry for mistakes
@dyluck
im a bit tyred about your storys and so on, i often try to tell you about our changes and our goals, but you never leave a good thing on it. For your roleplay, you leave illarion for a few months cause you were mad about the new magic system. if other people go incause about the new changes they should. this is a price we are willing to pay.
This game is in a testversion that means that current changes can come every day, and there were a couple of changes since im here, and there a player around who are longer here as me, playing an testing and they like the game.
Now application system is comming, and we will never step back of it, we talk about it since six months. and we work on a storyside for this website, but the offical storyline you find at moonsilver.de. maybe we dont want hunderts and hunderts of player. im behind the changes and like them. yeah we know we got a lot of things to do in the future, but im really tiered about to hear everytime we change a bit, some people who are trying to stop this...
im not native english so sorry for mistakes
-
Grishnak Bloodlust
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2002 3:39 am
- Contact:
@ Sevious Helios
The E-mail address to send the application to is . . . accounts@illarion.org (as stated by Serp on the homepage) I am just saying this because sometimes people dont read stuff they should.
But, once you have sent that form off (with your chars on) in a few days, or maybe weeks (depending on how busy it is) you will be sent an E-mail in reply to your first on this one you will have to answer some simple questions as best you can and you will probably have a short story to write. I won't go in any further detail in that. Once you have sent that one off you will have to wait a similar period of time untill you recieve THE reply that tells you if you have your account.
I was lucky enough to have sent mine off ages ago (and adding this new char to my already accepted account) and avoid much waiting about. I'm pretty sure someone even had to wait for something like 4 weeks to get a reply to their first E-mail (I won't mention their name). So just be patient for now, and don't worry.
The E-mail address to send the application to is . . . accounts@illarion.org (as stated by Serp on the homepage) I am just saying this because sometimes people dont read stuff they should.
But, once you have sent that form off (with your chars on) in a few days, or maybe weeks (depending on how busy it is) you will be sent an E-mail in reply to your first on this one you will have to answer some simple questions as best you can and you will probably have a short story to write. I won't go in any further detail in that. Once you have sent that one off you will have to wait a similar period of time untill you recieve THE reply that tells you if you have your account.
I was lucky enough to have sent mine off ages ago (and adding this new char to my already accepted account) and avoid much waiting about. I'm pretty sure someone even had to wait for something like 4 weeks to get a reply to their first E-mail (I won't mention their name). So just be patient for now, and don't worry.
-
Caranthir the great
- Posts: 1476
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 9:06 pm
- Contact:
(#me frowns 'So that one beer was too much for ye?')
Perhaps the magical system change could have been done by some better way, but that didn't really affect me in any stage (#me frowns again 'Aye, Magics are for weaklings and Elves!') since I've never been too fond in spellcasting.
But look at the other improvements done in our time, Dyluck. These you just might not concider to be any 'real rp' improvements, but I do. They did lower significantly the succes rate of crafted items, (#me grins 'But then on the other hand, ye don't know anything about real work, now do ye?') which helped the economy to get somehow on its feet, since making items required much more time than it had before. And then there was the improvement from the way back, depot boxes -that I call a 'Rp-improvement' if any! You remember that time, Dyluck? Before it, people dragged all their earthly posessions in their backs. That wasn't 'realistic' in any means, a magical box that holds your items is a lot better.
Perhaps the magical system change could have been done by some better way, but that didn't really affect me in any stage (#me frowns again 'Aye, Magics are for weaklings and Elves!') since I've never been too fond in spellcasting.
But look at the other improvements done in our time, Dyluck. These you just might not concider to be any 'real rp' improvements, but I do. They did lower significantly the succes rate of crafted items, (#me grins 'But then on the other hand, ye don't know anything about real work, now do ye?') which helped the economy to get somehow on its feet, since making items required much more time than it had before. And then there was the improvement from the way back, depot boxes -that I call a 'Rp-improvement' if any! You remember that time, Dyluck? Before it, people dragged all their earthly posessions in their backs. That wasn't 'realistic' in any means, a magical box that holds your items is a lot better.
What's your point Caranthir? These little improvements are the kinds of small step things I'm takling about that helps. I didn't say those were bad.
I don't want to argue with you Cosma, you don't even understand my words anymore...
You don't understand one bit about my leaving. You don't understand how it feels to work so hard to build up the roleplaying community in Illarion only to have it ruined and made twice as hard to continue all because of a stubborn decision made without fully understanding the consequences. Keep treating Illarion like just a game and that's all you'll get, just a drop-in game, where there is no background community and people come in, play for a few weeks, get bored and leave.
I didn't say that everytime something change is bad. I'm only talking about some changes are not the right time to make yet. Do you think I just oppose all change without any reason or basis? No...you don't even understand a word I say anymore...
I don't want to argue with you Cosma, you don't even understand my words anymore...
You don't understand one bit about my leaving. You don't understand how it feels to work so hard to build up the roleplaying community in Illarion only to have it ruined and made twice as hard to continue all because of a stubborn decision made without fully understanding the consequences. Keep treating Illarion like just a game and that's all you'll get, just a drop-in game, where there is no background community and people come in, play for a few weeks, get bored and leave.
I didn't say that everytime something change is bad. I'm only talking about some changes are not the right time to make yet. Do you think I just oppose all change without any reason or basis? No...you don't even understand a word I say anymore...
Okay, you got me on that one Dyluck, I must admit.Dyluck wrote:...you don't even understand my words anymore...
Keep treating Illarion like just a game and that's all you'll get, just a drop-in game...you don't even understand a word I say anymore...
I don't understand what you mean by not treating Illarion like just a game. Umm... isn't it? What more could it be?
Or do you perhaps mean something else you didn't specify? Just another RPG game? Just a graphical game?
I'm confused by that one, Dyluck.
Just want to say that i am totaly agree with Dyluck. I would not say it better then him. Maybe like half a year or even a whole year ago there were much more RP then now, I remmeber i even started Illarion newspape and such. But now i would not risk to start one due to lack of events, stories and such.
I also have to admit that I am not quite sure if I have completely understood your point of view.
To sum it up in my words:
- at present the role-playing community in Illarion is week therefore changes should be slow not fast, as not to destroy the fragile community of role-players
- increase the amount of quests, designed in a way engaging everyone and giving the players the impression to be part of a greater storyline
- the website is wrong as it does not attract enough people/role-players
Ok, these are the three points I can extract from your post. I will not talk about the last aspect, as I think it is a minor problem, if at all (i like the new design).
You think that the introduction of the account system will effect the small role-playing community in way to further crumble its existence. It is not very clear to me how it will do so. The account system is introduced to have a barrier against people we do not want to see here, but can be seen frequently online. It will not be a perfect barrier, but still the amount of people (from our point of view) destroying the atmosphere will be reduced significantly. But as a result there might be a problem to further attract new players. We are aware of this possible effect but have taken steps and discussed ways to avoid this.
The moment the account system is implemented a quite huge burden will be taken away from the gamemasters. That will mean that they have more time to organise quests and further improve the in-game storyline of Illarion and new features will help them to do so.
So in the end with the account system we exactly plan to do the things you would like to see. And as Serpardum said this game is still "beta". There will and have to be further changes. Changes which are so significant that it will most likely alter some characters tremendously or might even lead to a char-wipe. We had a deadlock for nearly a year, as the old server programmer left the team. But with Serpardum we now have a very active and good one, therefore changes can be expected to be more frequent from now on.
I think the present situation is a dead end. Most of the new players are idiots, who distroy the fun of others. The few rollplayers entering the game, leave quite fast, as there are too many non rollplayers online.
But maybe I have missed your main point. Therefore I would like to ask you to further explain what exactly disturbs the game and what kind of steps you want to see to improve the present situation.
Nanuk
To sum it up in my words:
- at present the role-playing community in Illarion is week therefore changes should be slow not fast, as not to destroy the fragile community of role-players
- increase the amount of quests, designed in a way engaging everyone and giving the players the impression to be part of a greater storyline
- the website is wrong as it does not attract enough people/role-players
Ok, these are the three points I can extract from your post. I will not talk about the last aspect, as I think it is a minor problem, if at all (i like the new design
).You think that the introduction of the account system will effect the small role-playing community in way to further crumble its existence. It is not very clear to me how it will do so. The account system is introduced to have a barrier against people we do not want to see here, but can be seen frequently online. It will not be a perfect barrier, but still the amount of people (from our point of view) destroying the atmosphere will be reduced significantly. But as a result there might be a problem to further attract new players. We are aware of this possible effect but have taken steps and discussed ways to avoid this.
The moment the account system is implemented a quite huge burden will be taken away from the gamemasters. That will mean that they have more time to organise quests and further improve the in-game storyline of Illarion and new features will help them to do so.
So in the end with the account system we exactly plan to do the things you would like to see. And as Serpardum said this game is still "beta". There will and have to be further changes. Changes which are so significant that it will most likely alter some characters tremendously or might even lead to a char-wipe. We had a deadlock for nearly a year, as the old server programmer left the team. But with Serpardum we now have a very active and good one, therefore changes can be expected to be more frequent from now on.
I think the present situation is a dead end. Most of the new players are idiots, who distroy the fun of others. The few rollplayers entering the game, leave quite fast, as there are too many non rollplayers online.
But maybe I have missed your main point. Therefore I would like to ask you to further explain what exactly disturbs the game and what kind of steps you want to see to improve the present situation.
Nanuk
The thing about change is that you'll never get everyone to like it. If you don't like a particular change then say clearly why and what would, in your opinion, be a better idea. If your idea is not taken up don't take it personally just try to see the reasoning behind it. There is a proposal board for anything you might like to include in the game. Some ideas are excellent but beyond the scope of the team right now. Some of the ideas will never be seen. Keep in mind this is a beta game and as such will change through time. Some changes will not seem like a good idea until others are implemented later. I know I'm a bit of a newcomer and so haven't the right to my two cents as older players, but work with what we have and accept that things WILL change for better or worse over time. I think the team are doing the best they can, and better than several I've seen, so try to cut them some slack. I've little experience of programming, but what I have had makes me realise that working hard and being attacked for your efforts is not very pleasant especially when you've done what you set out to do.
Like Dyluck, I did end up leaving for a short period however, it was for getting killed by the same person 3 times. I had already considered leaving for a period before because I had a lot of school work and exams were coming up. When I returned, I found out that more of the newer players that began playing, compared to before I left were good role-players. Perhaps I only thought this because I left on a bad note but there are many good role-players here.
The account system is a good system and it will hopefully reduce the amount of players who do not care about the true meaning of the game. However, some people may slip through the cracks. When the e-mail system is implemented it will improve the role-playing of average role-players like myself. I find that around certain people it is easier to role-play then others, and most of the others are the people interested in their skills or speaking to friends about things going on in the "Real Word".
Please excuse me if this is confusing, as I tend to be long winded and tlaking about the same thing for a long time while the thing can be summed up in a few words.
The account system is a good system and it will hopefully reduce the amount of players who do not care about the true meaning of the game. However, some people may slip through the cracks. When the e-mail system is implemented it will improve the role-playing of average role-players like myself. I find that around certain people it is easier to role-play then others, and most of the others are the people interested in their skills or speaking to friends about things going on in the "Real Word".
Please excuse me if this is confusing, as I tend to be long winded and tlaking about the same thing for a long time while the thing can be summed up in a few words.
I think that what we need is more GMs online, and a stricter punishment for those who don't roleplay. I am not sure of the current punishment for not roleplaying, but I'm sure that it could be better. The main problem is not that non-roleplayer's aren't taking the warnings seriously, they just don't get caught for what the do, and keep on doing it. Sure, other players could send in complaints about certain people, but there are so many of them it could get overwhelming. The little message boxes that popup aren't enough to enforce roleplaying.
(Excuse the fragmentation)
(Excuse the fragmentation)
@Ellaron: I'm not "attacking" anyone for their efforts, and if you can't see that then you probably haven't understood my post.
@Serpardum: There's more to that sentence than in your quote....
@Nanuk: The new design is not bad, but it still makes no difference from the old one when it comes to helping "roleplaying". When a person comes to the first page of Illarion for the first time, how are they supposed to realize that this is a different kind of game from say Tibia? Especially when they are some kid who won't read the rules? I think the first page of the website can make a huge difference. At least when good roleplayers come and see right away that this game is for roleplaying only they will want to come, and when a non-roleplayer comes and sees that right away this game disallows things that he does, he may go away.
This is one example of a subtle change that can improve Illarion with no risks. I have not actually wrote that I oppose the application system as some of you seem to think, but I deem it a risky step that many not bring the results we desire. I believe our goal can be more securely achieved by first taking smaller steps with no drawbacks to improve Illarion and get more roleplayers, since the chance of success of the application system will be higher when we have more roleplayers.
@Serpardum: There's more to that sentence than in your quote....
@Nanuk: The new design is not bad, but it still makes no difference from the old one when it comes to helping "roleplaying". When a person comes to the first page of Illarion for the first time, how are they supposed to realize that this is a different kind of game from say Tibia? Especially when they are some kid who won't read the rules? I think the first page of the website can make a huge difference. At least when good roleplayers come and see right away that this game is for roleplaying only they will want to come, and when a non-roleplayer comes and sees that right away this game disallows things that he does, he may go away.
This is one example of a subtle change that can improve Illarion with no risks. I have not actually wrote that I oppose the application system as some of you seem to think, but I deem it a risky step that many not bring the results we desire. I believe our goal can be more securely achieved by first taking smaller steps with no drawbacks to improve Illarion and get more roleplayers, since the chance of success of the application system will be higher when we have more roleplayers.
Well, yes, I would agree with that, becuase all games must do that. All games are a world and need to be treated as such.
eGenesis's A Tale In The Desert's world is totally different from Illarion's world. NexusTK's world is totally different than either's world, and I dont' just mean maps.
They are different communities with different goals and different types of people and different things they like to do.
One of the things about enter/exit messages you fail to address, however, is that the more people in the world the more messages you get. Just about every game when it starts will have entry/exit messages since there are not that many people on and you may see one an hourif you are lucky.
And all games disable them after a time because they cause spam when now you see them once a minute or so. And that is what started happening to Illarion and I am sure is one of the reasons I was asked to remove them.
And, yes, all games come up with some alternative to them. ATITD has private messaging. NexusTK has a who list. And right now Illarion has the online list.
You don't like using the online list? That is fine, come up with an alternative that does not cause spam and fits in the RP nature of the game.
Things will continue to change, and I am quite sure that everyone is not going to like all of them. There is no game that has been underdevelopment (alpha/beta) on where when a change was put in someone didn't scream and holler that it was horrible and to take it out, where the majority of the people either didn't care or liked it.
There is a saying.
You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.
eGenesis's A Tale In The Desert's world is totally different from Illarion's world. NexusTK's world is totally different than either's world, and I dont' just mean maps.
They are different communities with different goals and different types of people and different things they like to do.
One of the things about enter/exit messages you fail to address, however, is that the more people in the world the more messages you get. Just about every game when it starts will have entry/exit messages since there are not that many people on and you may see one an hourif you are lucky.
And all games disable them after a time because they cause spam when now you see them once a minute or so. And that is what started happening to Illarion and I am sure is one of the reasons I was asked to remove them.
And, yes, all games come up with some alternative to them. ATITD has private messaging. NexusTK has a who list. And right now Illarion has the online list.
You don't like using the online list? That is fine, come up with an alternative that does not cause spam and fits in the RP nature of the game.
Things will continue to change, and I am quite sure that everyone is not going to like all of them. There is no game that has been underdevelopment (alpha/beta) on where when a change was put in someone didn't scream and holler that it was horrible and to take it out, where the majority of the people either didn't care or liked it.
There is a saying.
You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.
You've come up with a few suggestions yourself already haven't you? Some other people have too, and some of those ideas could work. I think most people wouldn't mind an in-game method.
I just see a failure to fully understand the matter from people who over simplify by saying that taking out the message is completely a good idea without acknowledging the cosequences or the need for an alternative solution.
I just see a failure to fully understand the matter from people who over simplify by saying that taking out the message is completely a good idea without acknowledging the cosequences or the need for an alternative solution.
-
Cain Freemont
- Posts: 1424
- Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2002 8:54 pm
- Location: Oh, you know. Places.
-
Brendan Mason
- Posts: 1175
- Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2002 11:22 pm
- Location: Don't Feed the Troll...
- Contact:
There isn't a whole lot of love in the building right now, so let me address some of the issues raised.
E-Mail Application System:
I welcome it wholeheartedly (if it would accept my e-mail address)
as it will get rid of the current trend of "Greg did you go to the cinema last night?" players...
The whole name poppy-up issue.
Here is how it can be resolved in an RP style.
A dove could be purchased from a dove handler. It could then be sent out in search of a character whose name is attached and return telling the sender where that character is, via a "Brendan Mason is on the library roof." style message.
Dyluck, the GMs will have more time to implement quests and activities once they have a neat little list of characters and the like, achieved from the e-mail system(if it would accept my address!!
)
I believe that is the point Serpardum was trying to get across.
Your's with a lot of stupid suggestions,
Brendan Mason
E-Mail Application System:
I welcome it wholeheartedly (if it would accept my e-mail address)
as it will get rid of the current trend of "Greg did you go to the cinema last night?" players...
The whole name poppy-up issue.
Here is how it can be resolved in an RP style.
A dove could be purchased from a dove handler. It could then be sent out in search of a character whose name is attached and return telling the sender where that character is, via a "Brendan Mason is on the library roof." style message.
Dyluck, the GMs will have more time to implement quests and activities once they have a neat little list of characters and the like, achieved from the e-mail system(if it would accept my address!!
)I believe that is the point Serpardum was trying to get across.
Your's with a lot of stupid suggestions,
Brendan Mason
-
Emhyr van Emreis
- Posts: 209
- Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2002 10:26 pm
- Contact:
I just wanted to mention one thing in t he email-account discussion: Yes, it is true that this system will limit the number of players. But why sau that it is too early for that? Why say that with few roleplayers, you shouldn't take away the non-RPers? Roleplayers are going away because of the people who are supposed to be cut away by the account system. I for one part did leave for a while not only due to lack of time (which was one of the factors, the strongest one, true), but my decision was forced on a lot through the lot of non-RPers, PGers, call them whatever you want. I remember the earlier times... The times when the maximum numbers of people online were at about 10. Were those bad roleplaying times? No. I say - cut off the non-RP part of the community. "The axe must be laid to the root". Yes, it might cut away 90% of the community. But what will remain will be the roleplayers that make this game worthwhile. We might be thrown back to those "10-players-at-once-maximum"-times. But will that be so bad? I say no.
I am sorry for all the stylistic/whatever errors in this post, but I am typing in a great hurry, so I don't have the time to read and reread it and correct it as I usually do - sorry.
I am sorry for all the stylistic/whatever errors in this post, but I am typing in a great hurry, so I don't have the time to read and reread it and correct it as I usually do - sorry.
I am happy to see that the amount of players online haven't decreased significantly due to the account system (less than I feared).
@Alatar: How about asking the players to design a title page that emphasizes roleplaying. In former times there was a huge text at the start page, that pointed out the roleplaying aspect and explained a few of the gaming concepts. You took it out, because it was too long (I guess),
Maybe a few people can create a short HTML page (or send in texts and graphics)?
@Alatar: How about asking the players to design a title page that emphasizes roleplaying. In former times there was a huge text at the start page, that pointed out the roleplaying aspect and explained a few of the gaming concepts. You took it out, because it was too long (I guess),
Maybe a few people can create a short HTML page (or send in texts and graphics)?
Well, one of the reasons the amount of players hasn't decreased so much is because I think the current application questions aren't effective enough at seeing if someone can roleplay. I've still noticed a lot of non-roleplayers or people who can't type properly who made it pass the application into the game, some of which completely baffles my mind as to how they got in.
-
Loki Feuerhaar
- Posts: 353
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 9:20 pm
- Location: Trolls Bane