Fighting System - Kampf System

Gort Greegog · Post by **Gort Greegog** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:18 am

I asked because she said she was shooting slowly.

Shandariel el Lysanthrai · Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:21 am

I was using windarrows the whole time...i dont want to know how slow and bad normal arrows are than o_O. or crossbow...i mean, before the changes the crossbow had a 5 second firerate

. What is it now? 15?

edit: tested crossbow, the crossbow takes 14 seconds between every shot...and you need 5 bolts to kill a pig. that means from beginning of attack until end when you can move again it takes you 70 seconds!

Please...change that again. Make bows and crossbows quicker. 1/3 of they time the need now would be better and fitting.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:46 am

Okay Ive recorded attack times and how strong each weapon is.

Scimitar (too slow) attacks every 5 seconds and requires for me, 11 hits to kill an undead
One handed heavy battle axe (maybe too fast?) attacks every 4 seconds and took 9 hits to kill an undead
Serinjah (too slow) attacks every 4 seconds and took 11 hits to kill an undead
Sabre (just right) attacks every 4 seconds and killed an undead in 8 hits
Magical Longsword attacks ever 4 seconds nad took 8 hits to kill an undead.

I think it should be something more like this...

Scimitar attacks every 4 seconds taking 11 hits to kill an undead
One handed heavy battle axe attacks every 6 seconds and takes 8 hits to kill an undead
Serinjah attacks ever 3 seconds and takes 11 hits to kill an undead
Sabre attacks every 4 seconds and takes 9 hits to kill an undead
Magical Longsword attacks every 4 seconds and kills undead in 6 hits

(Magical Longsword being so strong so as the strongest one handed weapon is actually useful against someone using a double axe or battle staff)

Also all the qualities of these weapons are either very bad or crappy

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:48 am

And also I don't know what is up with Skeletons but they are uber.. One hit from them and I lost 2/3 health.

Post by **Nitram** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:40 am

Thats a problem with the two handed weapons. For some reasons the hits of them are like hell.

I search for this problem first.

Then i try to balance the speed.

Nitram

Gort Greegog · Post by **Gort Greegog** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:49 am

Just reminiding you Nitters. Don't forget conc weapons.

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:53 am

Did you stop to think that many concussion weapons are two handed, and so would be affected by this two handed bug?

Gort Greegog · Post by **Gort Greegog** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:00 am

Gee did a player that has been using concussion weapons for a year think about the concussion weapons? Hmm, I don't know maybe...

One hande conc weapons-
Club
Mace
Morning Star

Two handed conc weapons(Exept weak almost useless staves)-
Elven Mage's Staff
War Hammer
Battle Staff

Yes I did Donal. I am just reminding Nitram not to neglect my toys. No hard feelings.

Post by **Nitram** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:10 am

Garett Gwenour wrote:Scimitar attacks every 4 seconds taking 11 hits to kill an undead

done

Garett Gwenour wrote:One handed heavy battle axe attacks every 6 seconds and takes 8 hits to kill an undead

done

Garett Gwenour wrote:Serinjah attacks ever 3 seconds and takes 11 hits to kill an undead

done

Garett Gwenour wrote:Sabre attacks every 4 seconds and takes 9 hits to kill an undead

done

Garett Gwenour wrote:Magical Longsword attacks every 4 seconds and kills undead in 6 hits

done

Shandariel el Lysanthrai wrote:Please...change that again. Make bows and crossbows quicker. 1/3 of they time the need now would be better and fitting.

done

Gort Greegog wrote:Just reminiding you Nitters. Don't forget conc weapons.

some changes too. Try it.

Nitram

Liles · Post by **Liles** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:19 am

Don't forget to make magical broadswords attack every 1 secound and kill skeletons in 1 hit,

Shandariel el Lysanthrai · Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:10 pm

Shandariel el Lysanthrai wrote:
Please...change that again. Make bows and crossbows quicker. 1/3 of they time the need now would be better and fitting.
done

Sure? I still need 6 seconds with a bow and 14 with a crossbow o_O

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:30 pm

In RL Archery competitions you have 40 seconds to take a shot. In all honesty, most people only take about 10-15 seconds to take their shot. Considering the RL/Illa time difference I would say that they should take about between 3 and 5 seconds to fire.

Obviously the more experienced the quicker, but I dont know what scripting that requires.

Please note that the rate of fire legolas displays in LOTR is complete bollocks.

As for crossbows...take it down from your shoulder put it on the floor. Take a bolt from your quiver. Put the bolt in the crossbow. Begin winding.

....

Finish winding. Bring back up to shoulder. Fire. Of course though this is for a heavy crossbow. But still, it would take 30-40 seconds to wind. So between 10 and 14 isn't unreasonable.

The point with crossbows was that you needed about a days training, and could hit heavily armoured knights hard.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:27 pm

Illarion = Game

Game = Unrealistic

Illarion != Reality

Reality != Unrealistic

-> Illarion = Unrealistic

...but fun anyway.

Gort Greegog · Post by **Gort Greegog** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:02 pm

Estralis=Transitive

I still don't think anyone responded on my ncp archer post. I just woulden't want te be killed withuot escape chances like befor. That=No fun.

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:18 pm

Oh wow... okay... monsters seem to be hitting WAY too hard..

I never got to the skeletons because the mummies wiped me out... and considering mummies are no longer hard enough for me to learn from, this is a problem. Monster damage needs to be taken down a few notches. Mummies should be reasonably on the easy side for anyone who can no longer learn from pigs (turquoise to mid-green skill) yet at nearly yellow, they killed me fairly easily.

nmaguire · Post by **nmaguire** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:32 pm

Yeah... a wolf took off about 7/8s of my health.. and that was just 1 hit...
but I had no armor on...

Post by **Nitram** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:25 pm

I lowered the strength of the mummies now.

But i fear all monster will need some balancing <.<

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:25 pm

well, my char with chainmail, good konstitution and turkoise hit and dodge got biten twice to become an angel...

i think my chars should hybernate for a couple of days.

its no fun to kill pigs till you can buy professionel tools, only to be clouded, before yo can use them.

korm

Gort Greegog · Post by **Gort Greegog** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:15 pm

Chain male is the leat defensive metal armor you can wear. It dosen't surprise me you die so easaly with it.

Hadre Taliset · Post by **Hadre Taliset** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:17 pm

Nalzaxx wrote:In all honesty, most people only take about 10-15 seconds to ake their shot. Considering the RL/Illa time difference I would say that they should take about between 3 and 5 seconds to fire.

Obviously the more experienced the quicker, but I dont know what scripting that requires.

Please note that the rate of fire legolas displays in LOTR is complete bollocks.

The point with crossbows was that you needed about a days training, and could hit heavily armoured knights hard.

If I was fighting someone I would be getting the shots off as fast as possible. I can load and shoot an arrow in about 6.5 seconds. I just timed myself. so i would say 3 seconds for illarion. legolas is a bit faster but it not nuts. and for crossbows those are just slightly slower in real life, the none crank ones at least.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:19 pm

mummies are still a bit too strong. Just was in the graveyard, wearing leather armor (half leather armor, long leggings, gloves boots) with a viking helm, round metal shield and a serinjah sword.. I couldnt beat 1 undead. The first undead I fought was using a sword and hit me nearly everytime except for one, taking about .. 1/8 health per hit.

Not sure what happened between yesterday and today, (maybe weapon setting changes?), but the undead and i am sure other enemies have gotten a bit too strong.
Also my character has bright green dodge and mild green parry, slash and tactics.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:28 pm

Okay, the undead so far seem about right.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:32 pm

Gort Greegog,

the same char did take and survived five bites of a wolf, before the change, wearing only leather.

i simply think, a char, that won against five mummies, attacking at the same time, should survive more than two wolfbites.

korm

ps: or may be, my char got infected by a case of express-rabies...

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:43 pm

Fighting system (against undead) thus far looks good. It is difficult to dodge wrestling (which is believeable, someone is grappling and lunging at you, isn't as easy to dodge as say a heavy war hammer or so and also makes wrestling worthwhile to learn and master). meanwhile it is simple to dodge a single enemy if you have fairly good dodge, but when you are thrown against multiple enemies it becomes much more difficult. I like that part.

My only gripe, it seems to me parry isn't used often, at least, i don't get the parry message as much and I would think if I am using a shield I would parry more then I would dodge. I am not sure if you could change it nitram, but if it were possible to make it so if you are using a weapon that does not parry so well (two handed sword, a dagger with a free hand, wrestling) that you would get more chances to use your dodge skill then your parry skill, and vice versa, if you are using a sword and shield, you would probably not dodge AS much. I know it would be complicated as you would need to put that into the system as well as wieght of armor and how that would effect your character's ability to dodge. But I think if you could put all of that in, then the fighting system would be quite spectacular.

(i hope i made sense, you can just message me on msn if you want it to be cleared up )

Gort Greegog · Post by **Gort Greegog** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:01 pm

Gort can pary quite well against mummies. Here are two tests I did. Hope it helps.

Test #1-
Armor-Good Albarian Steel plate, good orcish helm, bad steel gloves and boots, bad red steel greaves, bad ornate tower shield.
Jewlery- Amulett, ruby ring, blackstone ring.
Weapon-Quite good mace.

Wrestleling mummies(tops level) hit often two of them got Gort down to about 3/4ths health. Sword/dagger(Parried 9/10 hits from them) mummy didn't hurt Gort. Just sword mummy took about .5 constitution a hit.

Mace killed mummies them in 5-8 non dodged or paried hits.

I also tried a skeleton with Test #1 gear and it took about 2 conctitution a hit.

Test #2-
Armor-Good Albarian Steel plate, good orcish helm, bad steel gloves and boots, bad red steel greaves.
Jewlery- Amulett, ruby ring, blackstone ring.
Weapon-Bad War Hammer.

Wrestleling mummies(tops level) hit often two of them got Gort down to about half health. Sword/dagger(Parried 7-8/10 hits not much different here) took about .25 constitution a hit. Just sword mummy took about .1 constitution a hit.

War Hammer killed mummies in 3-8 non dodges or parried hits.

This system IS impossible for a new char to gain any real strength. Monsters are far overpowered compared to Characters. The armro and weapons Gort wore would normally cost about 25-30 silvers. Unless a character can take up another craft and make alot of coins and gain a decent amount of weapon skill and find a cheap smith, they might be able to slowly get their parry up by fighting mummies.

Errian Abêth · Post by **Errian Abêth** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:19 pm

Agreed, I mainly use the same stuff, though the salkmaerian armor is absolutely new and of very good quality. Using a round shield and a magical long sword. Parry and slashing I'd say 4/5 before max.

Mummies worked quite well, unless there are many of them and stand behind or next to you. That seems to affect much. A new player I guess would quickly die this way.

The skeleton seemed overpowered, even compared to the last days. The first hit of it seemed normal, the second hit (they seem to hit more often now) almost killed my char (!). I doubt it was planned to make fighting that short...

Like it is now I guess a fully maxed character with full skills and good equipment can take two skeletons a time, maybe three... most dungeons actually do right that atm. ^^

Alytys Lamar · Post by **Alytys Lamar** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:13 pm

Ich schreib jetzt mal in deutsch -- ist einfacher

Also gerade wurde mein Char fast zweimal von Mumien getötet.
Das Equipment war beide Male nicht optimal, altes salkamerianisches Turmschild, leichte Jagdrüstung, abgenutztes Breitschwert.

Das zweite Mal alter, schlechter Stahlharnisch, neues gutes Kurzschwert, abgenutztes Stahlturmschild.

Vor den Änderungen gabe es für Aleytys keine Probleme damit Mumien zu schlagen - dieses Mal mußte der Char beide Male flüchten.

Sie schlug auch mit sehr niedriger Frequenz.

Nicht gut -- gar nicht gut, Skills sind im grünen Bereich.

Für einen Neuen schlichtweg unmöglich.

Guir Rabenflügel · Post by **Guir Rabenflügel** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:36 pm

Sorry, schreib jetzt auch mal in deutsch.
Als ich das letzte mal bei den Mumien war, hatte ich meine beste Ausrüstung dabei. Sie haben mich zwar nicht verletzt, aber ich musste schon in der ersten Halle gegen vier Stück kämpfen und brauchte für die vier zwischen fünf und zehn minuten. vorher habe ich vier in weniger als einer minute niedergemacht. und meine skills wandern so langsam aber sicher durch den grünen bereich durch. ich finde, sie sind nun wirklich etwas zu stark. ich meine, einige chars, zum beipiel druiden laufen eher weg, als zu kämpfen, weil sie das nicht machen, aber wenn es nun mal brenzlig wird, werden die von einer einfachen mumie mit ein zwei schlägen niedergemacht und von den neuen ganz zu schweigen.

Ku 'Agor · Post by **Ku 'Agor** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:55 pm

While trying to practice dodge a dagger mummy 2 hitted Ku.

Please, for the love of god, weaken all monsters dramaticly.

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:20 pm

Shandariel el Lysanthrai wrote:
Shandariel el Lysanthrai wrote:
Please...change that again. Make bows and crossbows quicker. 1/3 of they time the need now would be better and fitting.
done
Sure? I still need 6 seconds with a bow and 14 with a crossbow o_O

Did you try diffrent bows? There should be differences in handling time and exactness to hit the target.