What Illarion Needs

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:16 pm

After some thought and after looking at some of the dismal roleplay that is going on it has become pretty obvious that Illarion's standards are degrading. I was all for Martins plan, to stop the account system and let whomever wants to join and play this game do so and let them then get hooked by the game. But the online list has not increased significantly and this is why.
Average gamers on the internet do not want to have to figure out a games mechanics nor do they want spend hours playing before they can do anything useful.

This is why indeed we get many new players, but most quit and leave the next day. This is mainly because they do not know how to play and they need other players to tell them how to play, or rather, they need other characters to aid their character in becoming specifically a craftsman.

Illarion is not a large enough community to make players rely on other players to be on to be able to do crafts. (like carpentry, blacksmithing, glass blowing) etc. Every new character needs to be able to start with what they need to be able to do their craft. If they choose to be a blacksmith, give them smelting tools, a hammer and start off with 50 ores or so. If they want to be a carpenter, give them carving knives, a plane and 30 boards of each type of wood. And so on. This needs to be done if you wish to keep new players around.

Next we honestly need to work on the roleplay of illarion lately. It is honestly so shoddy lately, from everyone it seems. And it dissapoints that you all continually pat yourselves on the back in the "whos roleplay did you liketoday" even if all you did was say hello and do the casual roleplay encounters.

There are no dynamic characters around anymore. 6 months ago there were numerous dynamic characters that were involved, had plots and were medival minded. They were not modern day minds set in a knight or a earl or whatever. Dynamic characters are the ones that had intrigue, and yet are not over the top, they are believeable and are steady characters that are neither saviors nor overly evil ones. Dynamic characters are made and start in illarion with a free impressionable mind in illa, not ones who after the first day are commited to one side because YOU the player OOC decided that this character will hate that leader or will be overly loyal to that leader.

How to bring this all back, how to save illarion's clearly failing roleplay? You need to change the atmosphere for the game largely and how every character looks at the gods. I am trying to do that, by playing Stephen as loyal to Malachin, but playing him as truely Loyal toMalachin, fighting battles and hunting for war. That is how Malachin is described and often times people are mixing Zhambra for Malachin because Malachin is the more popular of the two.

If everyone who follows a god, (indeed mainly malachin), plays a peace seeking even minded character then nothing will ever happen in illarion. If I played Stephen as I originally started, simply a plain follower of malachin, slow to draw his blade, even and never holding grudges, nothing in illarion would happen. No war would be fought, no troubles would be fought except for orcs and when a Gm decides to throw Bjolmur worshippers a bone.

We need to play this game better. We need to change the atmoshere of this game or else all the goods players whom have left will never return.

Caldrion Sternenglanz · Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:19 pm

You are right in many terms.

But i have seen, that many players dont want too much action. Greenbriar was a peacefully place for not-warrior-char.

Now the war is everywhere.

What Illarion need too, is a peacfully place for notwarrior-chars, who wants to roleplay without any fights. Perhaps a few sanctuariums?

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:01 am

I think illarion RP is fine now, I enjoy it very much. As well, I play a peaceful character at the moment and can manage quite nicely.

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:03 am

Umm....we still have peace in Greenbriar......thanks to the efforts of Dusty Bottoms (a dynamic character in his own right). Dusty seems like a simple merchant.....a simple politician.....who knows....maybe more?

Q: Why does war make a game exciting??

A: Because what else does an "Uber"character have left to do? Pick on others. It's the easy way to 'stir' things up.

I do believe stephen's character is now played truer to himself as a 'warrior' of Malachin, but I don't believe even Malachin would go so far as 'stomp' on the other Gods without fear of retribution. All the gods exist, and use us (the characters) as pawns in their fights, but in the end....they always balance each other out. Only the characters suffer. Dusty, believe it or not, as a follower of Irmorom, is suffering in his anguish of not being able to do anything about the Temple desecration. Ask him about the 'lashings' on his back sometime, its why he rarely leaves Greenbriar these days. ((Hint: "Mia Culpa")) He doesn't like to talk about it.

Q: What else will make Illarion exciting??

A: Better Roleplay. More 'reverence' to the Gods. More 'players'. There are many things. But I kind of like Illarion as it is......

A war in Trollsbane shouldn't affect other roleplay elsewhere. When there's a crisis, why does everybody 'gravitate' toward it? There should be other things going on.....

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:29 am

stephen,

i disagree.

Every new character needs to be able to start with what they need to be able to do their craft. If they choose to be a blacksmith, give them smelting tools, a hammer and start off with 50 ores or so. If they want to be a carpenter, give them carving knives, a plane and 30 boards of each type of wood.

i was one of the last players, who had to write and rewrite to get in.
i am still pretty new.

give them boards or ores? why? give an explanation, how to use a hatchet or pickaxe.
they'll produce right away.

less, some experienced player decides to let his char rob noobs, because its easy.

there lies the frustration for new players. still trying to hit the keys for a "#me", when they look up from the keyboard they have to realize, that the funny baby with that pettycoat is their char...

so they try to raise funds for new tools by killing pigs bare handed. only to meet the next "experienced roleplayer".
thats the point where the game looses a lot of would be players.
it's just the stubborn ones, that look for times with few players online to start over a third time.

that's, why there are so few players "with a free impressionable mind in illa".

and it surely helps a lot, to read the leading heros of the game, bitching at each other in the forum.
..........

... and were medival minded.

oh, yeah, that would be marvellous. why don't you lead us, and start to play an medival knight instead of a mafia boss?
macciavelli was renaicance, not medival.

a medival knight would bear his lot, and not bitch around in public. a medival knight would do good, instead of talking a lot.

i, neither as a player, nor as a char, can believe in any of the main chars in the ongoing tragedy. (as far as i saw ingame and read in forums) (less nalzaxx he plays the evil, and thats it)

you want medival? try to copy Lenner's style!

and dont you think, that you are so special, that i mean you alone. no sir!
there seems to be at least half a dozen or a dozen players, whoose chars dont even give back a "greetings, your wellborne" when it does not come from one of their own "gang"

what do you think, why in greenbriar there is no room left, with all those chars living there in the last week?
because the mighty chars act medival?

please dont mention roleplay, you and your like, you give nobody the chance to roleplay.
you just ignore the mayority of the islands population.

ok, will "shut up Noob!" be the answer?

korm

Ku 'Agor · Post by **Ku 'Agor** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:54 am

Only thing I bothered to read was the bold words.

I agree. I agree.

Errian Abêth · Post by **Errian Abêth** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:58 am

Average gamers on the internet do not want to have to figure out a games mechanics nor do they want spend hours playing before they can do anything useful.

I don't think Illarion was ment to be "average". It was not in fromer times, by all means.

Next we honestly need to work on the roleplay of illarion lately. It is honestly so shoddy lately, from everyone it seems. And it dissapoints that you all continually pat yourselves on the back in the "whos roleplay did you liketoday" even if all you did was say hello and do the casual roleplay encounters.

Some use it more often, others less. I prefer not to use it often, but still like to post something when I had a real good day and had fun playing with people. I see no problem with that. Smile!

There are no dynamic characters around anymore.

This point of view might not be shared by everyone .. I don't think characters are too much planned .. they can still develope. Of course, every character has to have some kind of thread.

How to bring this all back, how to save illarion's clearly failing roleplay? You need to change the atmosphere for the game largely and how every character looks at the gods. I am trying to do that, by playing Stephen as loyal to Malachin, but playing him as truely Loyal toMalachin, fighting battles and hunting for war.

That is, to be clear, your point of view, not the view of anyone as it sounds here. No one is perfect.
Futhermore, my character and others don't think Stephen way to serve Malachin is right. Stephen and others though might think he does. Why do we have to drag this ooc now? That is ingame stuff.

What Illarion needs are consistent, intelligent and realistic played characters. More can't be done, and more does a game not need.

Meriel Pelith · Post by **Meriel Pelith** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:04 am

Signed, Errian.

I see nothing wrong with Illarions RP. Actually the game is very fine the way it is currently.

The only thing that bothers me a bit, is the..well..ignorance. 80% of the people just don't care for the happenings.
"Undeads in town? *shrugs*"
"Governor letting them in? *shrugs*"
etc.

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:50 am

A little absurdity never hurt anyone.

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:18 am

those are all the warriors roleplaying according to their low intelligence stats.

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:40 am

Meriel Pelith wrote:Signed, Errian.

I see nothing wrong with Illarions RP. Actually the game is very fine the way it is currently.

The only thing that bothers me a bit, is the..well..ignorance. 80% of the people just don't care for the happenings.
"Undeads in town? *shrugs*"
"Governor letting them in? *shrugs*"
etc.

thats realistic though. 80% of most people in anything usually dont get involved in things at that moment. Ever hear the old addage, "10% of any group do 90% of the work". I think thats normal.

Sometimes its safer just to not get involved. Some of these plots are so petty and childish sometimes. Who wants to bothered with them sometimes? honestly!

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:41 am

Here's my top 5 things Illarion needs to become better ASAP:

1) More Fooser
2) More Smex
3) More random drama
4) More public executions
5) More less-serious stuff

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:02 am

Korm-

Hate to disappoint you, but that's how medieval knights/lords were *IN STORYBOOKS!* In reality, I don't think Stephen is heavy-handed ENOUGH for a medieval lord. Sorry, but that's reality. They were all prtty and courtly words to each other... but they were absolutely *grueling* for the most part to those under them. Some poor landholder can't come up with their taxes because their crop failed. You think they'd be allowed to make it up later? No. The adult males were imprisoned, or taken in chains and conscripted to the lord's fighting force... which, of course, meant the rest of the family couldn't bring in the crop, and eventually the lord simply seized the land and granted it to someone else. And that's just a single example.

Your argument there is just another example of what Stephen was talking about in the first place. Modern minds imposed on medieval characters.

Samantha Meryadeles · Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:14 am

Just that he is no Lord, but an elected leader

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:20 am

Some remark to the gods part from one who played a priest of Malachin over years:

It's in the nature of a god, that mankind can't fully recognize, understand and view all aspects of a god (because if it is possible, mankind will be god, too). Looking on it from this point of view, it is natural, that different people have different views about one and the same god.

Malachin is also described as a god of righteousness in his ways of acting. This aspect was the main aspect Aragon focusses on in his priesthood and therefore he tried to make the GR as followers of Malachin to follow righteousness.
I see no wrong or minor rp in playing followers of one god in different ways and focussing on different aspects of the god.
For orcs who follow Malachin surely other aspects will be important as a good hunting for gaining food for their tribes.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:45 am

NirAntae,

are you countering "storybooks" with schoolbooks now?

the example you wrote would have been exemplary for a not successfull noble.

the successfull nobles cared.
why? - simply because commoners were an asset. they lived in bondage (or in modern words - were owned)
a noble who had a lot of bondpersons, had a lot of income.

in medival times there were very few yeomen left (yeomen were a leftover from the "dark ages")

but to the char stephen:
he seems to simply ignore commoners and craftsmen, instead of treating them good or bad.
in the historic medival times, the answer to that would have been "bundschuh" armies.

the player of stephen must be a city-dweller, in my opinion. because stephen simply ignores such basic things like the lifelong building and maintaining of a (good) reputation. that being something very medival (and modern rural)

i only see one single point, where he really looks medival - thats the ingame rumors about him practicing lex primae noctis...

i will restrain myself now from giving you a multi-page lecture on medival customs.
(because i think, that you indubitably are less interested in the medival times, than you are in furthering one of the ingame factions)

btw, thanks for calling me modern. not many do that.

korm

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:01 am

Korm Kormsen wrote:
please dont mention roleplay, you and your like, you give nobody the chance to roleplay.
you just ignore the mayority of the islands population.

ok, will "shut up Noob!" be the answer?

korm

Korm, Stephen is in my eyes a well played character, and the only comments he ignores are those his char would ignore as I have seen it.

And I also sign Jen(NirAntae)'s post earlier. Have you ever read anything about how things truely where in those times of our world? Or have you only seen those made up fairy tales?

And Patric, he is the leader none the less, people change, people don't stay the same.

There's realy only 2 matters in Illarion that truely irritate me:
-The constant bitching and bickering about everything.
-Almost everyone is a democrat, and a lot chars know a lot about everything just cause we know about it. In those times in our world half the people couldn't even write.

I understand that Illarion is not and will never be like our world in those times, since in that time in our world life sucked even more.

There are simply those that like all the good nice pretty flowers rp, where all goes perfect, where all chars are perfect for eachother and no chars get angry and so on and so on.

And there are those who actualy like the heated ic discussions, who like the hate, the death, the anger, the corruption and the mind games.

There are perspectives, and everyone has their own, wich is why wars are fought, why terrorists run around blowing up shit, why people get into fights.
Of course there may be a few tiny exeptions to those things but when thinking deeper it will in the end all be about perspective, and since no perspective looks at all sides of the object no perspectives are completely right or wrong.
In some perspectives (No offence or stuff meant to anyone of course) even Hitler would be the one who is right.
This is why some vote for and some vote against.

And since life is so much more complicated then this shape I drew you here, everyone has their perspective to look from, some perspectives wider than others.
And since it seems that most Illarionites here have very diferrent perspectives on things, most Illarionites bicker about everything and nothing.

And so the only thing that can fade the lines of perspective is respect, wich in our time few still seem to have much of.

Now this post of mine may be a bit unsorted and some things should be in other places, but I think you all should be able to sort those things yourself, cause I have an appointment ingame.

Edit:

maintaining of a (good) reputation. that being something very medival

Once again this is something only few where like, stories are not always true, Illarion has it's Saddams to.

Nerian Finera · Post by **Nerian Finera** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:43 am

Aragon wrote:Some remark to the gods part from one who played a priest of Malachin over years:

It's in the nature of a god, that mankind can't fully recognize, understand and view all aspects of a god (because if it is possible, mankind will be god, too). Looking on it from this point of view, it is natural, that different people have different views about one and the same god.

Malachin is also described as a god of righteousness in his ways of acting. This aspect was the main aspect Aragon focusses on in his priesthood and therefore he tried to make the GR as followers of Malachin to follow righteousness.
I see no wrong or minor rp in playing followers of one god in different ways and focussing on different aspects of the god.
For orcs who follow Malachin surely other aspects will be important as a good hunting for gaining food for their tribes.

that point i want agree to...

you know, i'm also playing a priest of malachin now...but malachin can be seen in many ways...and to serve him is not just killing and fighting...

(actually nerian had some dreams, which he calls visions...BUT...some of them are really only dreams...he is a young priest and has much to learn about his god...but he has a strong belief and thinks nothing happens without a reason...he believes in balance and destiny...you shouldn't really take them as the "true" face of malachin...there are many ways to see every god)

Samantha Meryadeles · Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:54 am

Once again this is something only few where like, stories are not always true, Illarion has it's Saddams to.

and we all know where Saddam is sitting now

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:56 am

Honestly, I don't give a crap about which faction succeeds in Troll's Bane.

And I do in fact care a great deal about medieval times and customs, and have poured a lot of time and energy into studying it. As my title and awards in the research-based re-enactment society I am in would indicate.

Yes, the most loved and successful lords cared about their people. They did what they could to help them. But that doesn't mean they were given a vote in what was done; the lord made the decisions, based on what was best *for him* and *for his lands and people*, as his interests and theirs were generally viewed as one and the same. He didn't ask them what *they* thought was best for them.

And as I said, what I said earlier was only an example. Yes, it was an extreme example, but I was trying to make a point, not get into a discussion of the intricacies of the feudal system.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:57 am

kevin,

There are perspectives, and everyone has their own, wich is why wars are fought, why terrorists run around blowing up shit, why people get into fights.
Of course there may be a few tiny exeptions to those things but when thinking deeper it will in the end all be about perspective, and since no perspective looks at all sides of the object no perspectives are completely right or wrong.

here i fully agree.

being german,

... even Hitler would be ...

i've learned, not to comment about that person...

Have you ever read anything about how things truely where in those times of our world? Or have you only seen those made up fairy tales?

i should think so. allthough i m no scholar, since they taught me to read 47 years ago, i love to read.

and history is one of my favorite topics (not just stories)

but maybe, coming from the p&p corner and being relatively fresh with online rp, may be i am expecting the wrong things.

korm

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:52 pm

Korm Kormsen wrote:
being german,

... even Hitler would be ...
i've learned, not to comment about that person...

The reason why I put this behind it: "(No offence or stuff meant to anyone of course)"

It was only meant as en example of course.

Post by **Nitram** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:10 pm

I don't want to write that much here.

But one thing though

I really think that the way the things IG are handled are to modern.

Well...some cultures in the background of Illarion are nice to all bad guys.

But take a simple thief.

The thief gets cought.

What happens in our nice game
thief into priston
1hour - 2days later he is out again

What should happen in my opinion.
Well...at the first time he is cought he can choose the finger he looses.
The seconds time a hand
and the third time the other hand

At the latest then he has to look for a new buissnes

Foosers 4th point really got it. Don't be to nice to your enemies

I don't talk about smashing and pking without any RP

Ah...player killing is a good topic.
Everyone should think about this. PO Grant told me.
I don't like it to see, that some characters, pk a character on sight without even a #me or giving them a chance to responce a #me
If i see something like this i may decide to create a dragon right behind you

Nitram

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:19 pm

It seems to me that every three months a new chicken little says the sky is falling. Sometimes it's hit and sometime's it's miss. That's just what happens.

Liles · Post by **Liles** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:21 pm

I think me being IG more is needed.

Also, me having a quest char cow named Betty is obviously needed.

Hadre Taliset · Post by **Hadre Taliset** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:27 pm

I started a few months ago and quite simply it wasn't the hard. I read moonsilver and some other stuff when I was waiting, as well for anything i needed in terms of using tools or anything like that, a quick help here and there and that was it. It really is not that hard. No the problem in my opinion is that illarion is a role playing game were you ACTUALLY have to role play. I bet most new players just download it, get an account, then start playing thinking, ah bit more indepth but probably just the same. I do not think that new players coming in now realise how much roleplaying is needed.

Talaena Landessi · Post by **Talaena Landessi** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:56 pm

do followers of malachin beat down small innocent people and then when the innocent person tells on them does that malachin follower lie about doing it?

just asking....the only gods my characters ever followed were ronagan, cherga, sirani, tanora,findari, and moshran...dont know shit about the other gods

Nerian Finera · Post by **Nerian Finera** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:17 pm

1. this is a ingame matter...handle it like that
2. no follower of malachin attacked any innocent i think

Caldrion Sternenglanz · Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:54 pm

Stephen did everything

Pronon Palmsuger · Post by **Pronon Palmsuger** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:12 pm

From what I gather:

Illarion needs more roleplay, more players, more dynamics, more drama, and a simpler system with plenty of intricacies.

In Conclusion: We have some new promblems, never been looked at before, and we're all going to need to be better at illarion inorder to solve them.

I'll get right on that Lumbourgh.

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What Illarion Needs

What Illarion Needs

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