Magic Discussion

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:49 am

There's always been just as much opportunity for an 'evil' mage to be taught as a 'good' one.

If the system of teaching is to work, two things need to occur. We need a new influx of teachers, given that many of them stopped playing, or were never able to teach at all. Additionally, teaching needs to be less difficult. From what I've heard, the transfer of runes requires extremely high attributes, and very high skills. Further, because raising a magic skill at the current time is difficult (ridiculously so), the loss of skill for teaching needs to be removed.

A bit of bitterness also kicks in, and I'll once again bemoan that several characters who attended magic academy classes, and are certainly active, are still without the vast majority of the runes, seven months later.

Laviath Rathor · Post by **Laviath Rathor** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:02 am

Ku 'Agor wrote:More active, and more variety.

I don't want Happy Pappy Do Goodding as the only option for teachers. There needs to be some 'bad' teachers.

There definetly is a way to get tought as a evil mage, too. Look at Silas. Do you think he got a push? -> NO!

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:14 am

He has been teached by a 'quest' character used to teach evil guys, teaching being with GM tools (I think), and this character isnt played anymore as far as I know.

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:08 am

How about reinstating a 'Magic Academy', except manned with an NPC Mage? Kind of like the Elven Teacher?

Therefore we can eliminate the 'human element' and magic will be 'available' to others. He could teach certain Runes after certain quests have been fulfilled, or payment has been made. The higher the rune, the higher the payment or harder the quest?

If we also add some 'rare' runes into some quests as well as maintain the current teaching system, I think this will reinvigorate the magical community.

If something isn't done soon, I can see it dying out for lack of teachers. It's as good as dead now.

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:14 am

Too much work, too little gain.

If the quest answers are spread and spoiled everyone will have a mage as a second character.

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:26 am

I don't think that will be a 'real' problem. Look at how many 'secrets' are divulged in crafting or quest secrets given, yet I don't think everyone has the time or the ability to take full advantage of them.

The idea is to make it easier to become a mage (even if with basic skills) rather than only in the hands of a select (and increasingly inactive) few.

I HATE the current system. I'm sure I am not alone. It should be changed, otherwise what's the point of having a 'fantasy' roleplaying game if there are no mages? There should be 1 mage for every 2-3 fighters. That would be more balanced.

Right now, I'm lucky to find 1 mage for 50 fighters. Not much 'fantasy' in that.

Laviath Rathor · Post by **Laviath Rathor** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:47 am

1 mage on 2-3 fighters would be much too many mages, but 1 mage on 20 crafters/fighters would be good I think. The idea with the quests is good, but the problem with the spoiling IS EXISTING. The problem is, that the people mix up their ooc.-knowledge with that of their characters.

Talaena Landessi · Post by **Talaena Landessi** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:55 am

i agree with juniper, 1 mage per 2 or 3 fighters

Azuros · Post by **Azuros** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:56 am

hm, maybe 1 every 5 or so, 2 or 3 is too many mages

Jeremy Gems Willowbrook · Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:38 pm

@Juniper. Mages dont make it 'fantasy'. How many mages are there in Lord of the Rings?

Fighters already complain about the mages. How much will they complain if there were many more?

It would be fine if people played 'minor' mages. IE characters designed to have other skills and attributes rather than just magic. But most people want to play full mages and there isnt room in the game for too many of those. Not if magic is to seen as something special.

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:53 pm

An easy way to "delay" but speed up the current teaching process would be a "timer" starting when one of the teaching mages teaches a rune.

He is then not able to teach another rune during a set amount of time, be it 24 hours, 48 hours or whatever time seems fair to the Dev's.

His skill therefore shouldn't be drained to teach due to this delay and you can focuss more on roleplaying with your mage from teaching to teaching rather than having to skill - loose skill in teaching - skill up again.

If the teachers are halfway reasonable upon whom they teach and do not give the teaching rune away easily this should speed up the teaching, and teaching wouldn't be limited by skill gain or minimum attributes to be able to teach.

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:13 pm

Jeremy Gems Willowbrook wrote:@Juniper. Mages dont make it 'fantasy'. How many mages are there in Lord of the Rings?

Fighters already complain about the mages. How much will they complain if there were many more?

It would be fine if people played 'minor' mages. IE characters designed to have other skills and attributes rather than just magic. But most people want to play full mages and there isnt room in the game for too many of those. Not if magic is to seen as something special.

Jeremy, Actually, there are several mages in Lord of the Rings if you count the Nazguul, several elves (Galadriel, Elrond, etc.) and the Dark Prince. But that isn't the Norm used for RP Fantasy games. Mages shouldn't be so hard to become that it's discouraging! Where's the fun in that?

Besides, if Magic is easier to acquire, how many do you think will have enough perseverence to become a high level in it. Not that many. In any skill you can name now, there are not that many 'uber' masters now compared to the number of players. I think most will dabble in it, but then need to work on some other skill to earn some money. Magic just isn't profitable enough to earn a living from by itself.

I wouldn't worry about it.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:17 pm

Xalliar wrote:
He has been teached by a 'quest' character used to teach evil guys, teaching being with GM tools (I think), and this character isnt played anymore as far as I know.
Mummie,s Pigs etc. were made by the GMs aswell. So all warriors are pushed.
Sorry, but your arguments are plainly stupid some times.

Argument? You always see my posts as offensive to you, I only stated a face, I dont even have a problem with that, chill down, you take things much to oseriously.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:30 pm

I didnt try to prove any point, oh and, we cant really all test it since no one teach magic anymore

I dont think magic needs to be weakened anymore right now, though I dont really know much of the spell's strenght currently, maybe just to fix the bugs.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:42 pm

Barely any of them can teach, Samantha, Athian..and then who? I heard they could only teac ha few spells, teaching is simply asking for too much in skill and attributes.

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:51 pm

Xalliar wrote:There ARE teachers.

You just have to really search for them and not just ask everybody: "U a mage? plz teach me"...

I second that, only took me like.. a week or two to find the right people and now my char is able to speak ancient. Weee progress

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:51 pm

Yes, one of my two magic-interested chars is able to speak ancient. However, neither are even close to learning an acutal rune. Because there aren't any active teachers that you can apprentice to. Samantha is not taking any new students yet. Athian is not taking any new students. Jeremy can't teach yet. Nitram's mage teacher is gone to the best of my knowledge. Misjilah couldn't teach yet and is gone anyway now. Dravian and Nalzaxx can't teach. Unless I'm very much mistaken neither Meriel or Silas is capable of teaching yet. The only other options I know of are quest or GM chars.

So, to quote..

'kthxbai'

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:02 pm

Then name them and stop just saying they are

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:03 pm

Xalliar wrote:I found a teacher after about 4 days of searching. And this is not a gm-char...
kthxbai.

I was referring more to this part. I'm glad for you that you found a teacher, but I *seriously* doubt it wasn't a GM or pushed quest character.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:20 am

If they dont want to be named, I take it that they keep it secret and only teach thoses they like, wether it be ooc or ic, and thus you cant really learn magic unless your characters knows a lot of peoples or is lucky enought to find out which one can teach. The only example I see is Parfu, meant to teach magic to orcs and to get them back in a group.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:27 am

that would be a reason that transfering runes should be a bit easier. definatly definatly keep teaching your students your philosphy, codes and values, thats what makes it true learning, i believe my two students had at least 5 lessons pertained to combat stratagy,philosphy, and other such things just in the first month of training, and at least three more before they got there first rune.

the problem is that, it takes a mage to long to finish teaching a student, then takes that student far to long to get himself good enough to teach, a tacher will always dislike teaching someone, thats a given, which is why, we as teachers of magic are trying to create more teachers via training students. mage A may not like you but his Student Mage B may be just fine with you. problem is it's soooo slow.

Ku 'Agor · Post by **Ku 'Agor** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:21 am

It takes a kid 12 years to finish highschool from elementary, and another 6 for them to finish college and become a teacher themselves.

Why not follow this real life approach? Keep it the same, but just make magic easier to learn and teach?

That's a basic rundown on what people are begging from this topic.

By the way; someone asked me if I ment "Make it longer to learn, but make it easier" and no, that's not what I mean.

That demonstration is to simply show that it takes half as long to teach as it does to learn.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:33 am

First i must say that teaching magic from character to character is the best game-ideea i've ever seen but, common man this situation really sucks.. there should be a warning on the screen where you put your attributes whitch shoul say something like this : "You'll better create a figher because all the mage spots are ocupied and no one will teach you"

EDIT: i opened a new topic " VOTE - magic academy" .. say your opinion there

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:59 pm

sorry, i know you asked but as i told you my character is incapable of teaching due to a bug he was inflicted with, you shouldn't take that as a personal assult on you, and look for another teacher.

all of us who aren't the archmge of Gobiath were given runes but nothing else to help us facilitate teaching in any way, now that i think about it. thats not just alittle unfair thats alot unfair. it asks of certain player, to constantly train so they can constantly give magic to other characters but in turn we were given no benefit, to help us, learn, teach or properly mentor groups of students.

an academy is already in place, its just gonna probably end up being the same issue, we'll have teacher who are incapable of teaching more then one or two student at a time, and zero support for them.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:03 pm

i wasn't refering to you, i'm sorry if this is what you understood.. i said that in a general way - there are no teachers and even if they are they can only teach a rune or two. As i said, at this rate, if nothing is done, magic WILL BE A LOST CAUSE

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:56 pm

Yes, Silas, Orren and Nalzaxx. The three unloved students.

Now you know its the reason he turned evil.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:24 am

then this is very unfair.. i hope this will be fixed soon

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:09 am

Nalzaxx wrote:Yes, Silas, Orren and Nalzaxx. The three unloved students.

Now you know its the reason he turned evil.

Hey Will didn't even get to learn ancient, so I don't know what you're moaning about.

If you bring back the magic academy, make lessons at 9PM GMT+1. I've got all the info and crap, just not the training.

Liles · Post by **Liles** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:28 am

Nobody wants to teach William magic!

William Elderberry is known as a complete and utter moron so why would a mage waste his time teaching him if he's either:

1. Not going to ever learn it
2. Be a complete ass and abuse it.

Ku 'Agor · Post by **Ku 'Agor** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:42 pm

Ugg. I can see this now:

William Elderberry: Hey stupid orc! I no u called me stupid and stuff like before, and I just wanted to say.. burn fer it!
Ku 'Agor raises a brow
William Elderberry: [ANC] Err. Hi mom!
-Magic flame thingy hits Ku, doing like 5% damage-
-Puffy ghost of elderberry flys away-
William Elderberry: [ANC] ((OMGZ POWERGAMMER))
William Elderberry: ((OMGZ POWERGAMMER*))