Magic Discussion

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:54 pm

Silas commotio skill is high. His essence is only average, which might be responsible for him being able to learn bigger spells later than other mages.

Hu'greu · Post by **Hu'greu** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:39 pm

maybe you have died too many times, that why I think my mining skill hast gone up any.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:01 pm

I really don't understand the magic system... Why would a mage - a very very hard to get and to play - type of character, not be able to kill more than one fighters in the same time? (i've heard that even if you have a very powerful one you'll still have troubles at killing ONE fighter)
No offence but... come on man.. this is really stupid
Someone said that if the mages would be made more powerful, then the whole game system will not be fair.. But see this: the system is ALREADY UNFAIR No one likes busting his brains at going trough the dificult process of magic learning when you know that you can be beaten by a mere fighter. If this is not resolved we risk to see a world populated only by fighters, and to withness the disapearence of real RP.
This is the ballance: make mages stronger! Normaly a wizard should be almost invincible by the "normal" people... He should not be afraid that, despite his hard hard work, he can get his *** wooped by someone who spent his time killing pigs and who doesn't even require RP.

Gildon · Post by **Gildon** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:22 pm

No accomplished mage can get owned by someone who kills pigs.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:28 pm

xalliar ment to say : with a bit of bad luck for the mage

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:54 pm

this:

If this is not resolved we risk to see a world populated only by fighters, and to withness the disapearence of real RP.

astonishes me.

do you seriously think that RP is dependant on the existence of mages?

apart from the question, how strong the fighting of mages should be.
(i think, it should be even harder, to become a mage, but high level mages should be able to kill a couple of fighters with one spell.
really good mages should be extremly few, but really strong.)

korm

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:38 am

@Korm : i didn't say that good RP is based on the existance of mages, what i meant to say is that they are like 70% of the RP world.. A fighter requiers only little RP...
And YES, powerful mages should be able to kill a bunch of fighters with only one spell.. All those months of hard hard training and RP should be reworded in this way

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:58 am

Using a fighter character dosent mean you dont RP, and fighters do have to train A LOT as well now. And you need to RP to be able to have magic, what is the DISADVANTAGE here?? Is it so painful to RP? Needing to RP to learn magic, I dont see it as a disadvantage that could be a reason for it to be stronger. A GOOD mage can already be VERY strong, take Samantha by example, she could beat any fighters, probably any group of 2. Its alright..its an archmage, archmages should be able to beat any fighter in a one on one. But should any average mage need to be completely able to destroy any fighters? No, categorically, thats just plain stupid and unfair for fighters that trains a lot for completely nothing. And no...mages arent the only ones that does RP

, not any close to 70%.. But what I really mean, if you think that the need to RP to get the runes is a pain in the ass and a big disadvantage, youre not at your place here, end.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:11 am

It dosent mean that because someone didnt RP with you that it means this person cannot RP

Edit: Also, i'm sorry that i'm unable to hang around in your group, and have such great rp with you, as everyone knows only you and those few other players can roleplay. And even then they arn't as good as you, being a mage and all

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:16 am

oh... don't get so upset.. i just said my poin of view

let's take this example: a new mage like character, wants to learn magic (of course

) but he can't find a teacher because of him beeing new and no one trusts him enough to take him as a student. Thus he has to spend most of time just wondering arround the town doing almost nothing (this is most because the mages that i have met can't teach yet

)
But what would a fighter do in all this time? TRAIN ! So the figher is advantaged because he has a lot of training in front of the future mage..
I don't say that the need to RP to get runes is a pain in the ass ( it would be nice if some kind of magic academy was created), i say only that the magic system should be more rewording so that you wouldn't feel like all of that work you done was in vain (more powerful spells)

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:20 am

You dont know anything about hte spells, how can you say that they arent powerful enought, I have seen characters with magic attributes getting killed in 3 seconds by mages, its powerful enought to me.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:23 am

Youre saying I dont RP? Or that no warriors does RP?

Edit : If youre taking about me, then dont tell me not to insult you personally then

. And I RP much more than you think I am, I just never RPed with you.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:29 am

Well, I guess you are meaning that fighting would need to be teached..I woulnt mind really, but I dont know how it could be done..

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:31 am

You know how stupid that would be? Then no one in the game would be able to fight because there wouldn't be enough teachers, just like in magic. Or like in magic, they only teach the PO they like. I just don't see that happening and if it does i'll be pissed.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:38 am

Yeah but fighting isn't one of those things that you have to really study. Magic is a thing that takes time and hours of studying. Now if they devs were to implant some kind of system of scrolls that you read or buy to learn new skills or just to rp it, then i would be okay with it. But other then that magic is a thing that takes alot of mental practice and takes a teacher, and fighting is something physical that takes time teaching yourself or paying a teacher.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:42 am

Either the requirements to teach a spell be lowered or that mages can learn spells by themselves in some ways.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:46 am

no.. to be able to learn spells by yourself would take all the fun

, but the lowering of teaching standards would be a very good ideea

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:54 am

Yeee... all hail mighty Nitram! *bakes a cookie*

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:55 am

Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:no.. to be able to learn spells by yourself would take all the fun , but the lowering of teaching standards would be a very good ideea

WEll, what I really meant, is not that any character can go buy runes at the shop

I mean like if A mage knew the small fireball spell, he could eventually find out how to use the bigger fireball spell, just as example.

Oh and...what does Afaik means?!

Silo · Post by **Silo** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:21 am

Just putting my two-cents in. Magic takes a while to learn, takes a while to find a teacher, but is *extremely* powerful.

Fighting takes an average amount of time to learn, is of average power, but is very expensive (to pay for the continuasly breaking armor and weapons).

only thing that should be fixed is have the learning time shortened a little.

And fighters do rp...alot, you just have to find the right ones, the same with mages. I've seen both kinds not rp, and both rp very well.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:32 pm

well, i think i will drop another two cents.

i'm neither playing mages nor fighters. just a stupid boor.
but i've read a fantasy book or two.

most of these worlds have a lot of commoners, a couple of average fighters, a handfull of exeptional fighters, some mages, and only very, reaelley very few top mages.

logical would be for me, that a small world like this one here has no mor than two to four toplevel mages. - to be handled as special characters with special permit from the staff.
and not more than a half dozen illusionists and low lewel mages.

concerning fighters, it should take real time months, to be a top level fighter.

speacially now, with the open incription, we will see an inflation of "intresting" chars.

if i want to play a sole farmer surrounded by dozens of supermen, i can play in any of the two score UO freeshards.

some of the arguments, i read here, sound to me like the players dont plan to stay for long in illarion, therefor they want to be something powerfull instantly...

korm

ps: i know, RL is shitty enough for most of us, so the temptation to play someone really mighty is very strong.

Hu'greu · Post by **Hu'greu** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:55 pm

From what im picking up from just view the last couple of pages, Most people seem to think To become a good mage and good fighter, they should learn it. So why not make it where you can pick up on a few simple spell and the fighter should be able to learn a few thrust and stuff but to really beacome top notch. Mages should find some kinda of ancinet power or be blessed with the gods with a powerfull staff that only comes around in a quest every couple of years IG years. And for fighter for them to become really powerfull they have to fight a really strong demon.

As the agurment I see now though is just people with swords and people casting spells. So why not make a mage with more advantage towards someone charging them with a sword, being in that they can blast them with a fireball when they get close. A archer with more power over a mage in that when the mage tires to cast a spell on someone faraway the archer can doge the spell and shoot an arrow at a defenless mage. finally with a warroir with an advantage over an archer with him being able to charge with full plate on and the arrow fire by the archer doesnt do a lot of damge towards him.

Of course you cannot forget about druids and their magic. Which is planned to be put into the game I believe. paladins, and warlock could be place into this system as well. Druids with rangers, paladin with warriors, and warlocks with mages of course.

Edit changed clerics to paladins

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:02 pm

Well there are nearly no good archers, because buying arrows costs a huge load of money. Anyway I dont like that idea, just too much random..

PS : Warlocks are good agaisnt warriors not agaisnt mages

Hu'greu · Post by **Hu'greu** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:03 pm

yeah i meant as they have thier main abilities in magic like paladins have their stuff in fighting

Gildon · Post by **Gildon** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:48 pm

PO Silas, I remember you complaining about your ice thing being too weak, how come it takes you 20 of those ice things to kill a deer when it takes 2 for Rankor, O_o

Just curious, Rankor can't be that weak in his essence is 7, its quite low but even then, c'mon.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:59 pm

If you mean Rankor Deathronk you must be mistaken, this character can not cast spells.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:00 pm

He means that its Silas that needed 2 spells agaisnt Rankor I guess

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:02 pm

Ah, that makes (a little) more sense.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:15 pm

Whats that? A bugged spell? Probalby icecubes >.>

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:18 pm

Then if they are meant to kill in 2 hits with not so good skill and bad attributes (like you say), I guess we could maybe put a casting time -.-