Spirit Event Today.
Moderator: Gamemasters
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Jon Childs
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Lance Thunnigan
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Actually, I didn't say anything about certain roleplaying cliques. One of them may have expressed an opinion or two, but not I. Also, the clique i'm referring to is the RL Clique, we are friends, we don't necessarily RP with eachother IG.Samantha Meryadeles wrote:its funny since it were some of you "friends" who complained not long ago about players being in groups or cliques and holding together or just doing roleplay under each other. and now you are doing the same.
Another thing, why are you so jealous, is it because you don't have a clique?
~Eric
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Jon Childs
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Guir Rabenflügel
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Nerian Finera
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Guir Rabenflügel
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Does this always happen when I am away for just two days? 
I will throw in my two copper now.
Since it seems these players had no clue, that there would be a big pwning mass of spells coming, I think it is hardly fair that you tell them, they should be able to run out and then emote. Most of the good Roleplayers that I know, will put RP as priority.
When I first got the GM abilities, and knew how to perform them, my first promise to myself was never to attack a char without clearly noticed RP first. It does not matter if you are invisible, or not.
If you cannot be seen- " You hear a faint but malicious hum in the air around you... "
If you are a violent and visible sheep- " #me bares his gnashing molars and growls at the provoking dwarf. "
Do at least something.
WE are used to knowing the GM abilities, how they work, their limits, their usefulness, &c. But why do you somehow expect the players to know, what kind of technical abilities you really have? In my eyes, if no one is responding to frequent emotes, okay sure. Pwn away. (sorry players
) But there is no reason to cast on targets, when nobody knows that there is an invisible spirit, who likes to randomly cast spells on unsuspecting people, who will silently sneak up and attack.
My next point is on "dragon chasing." It can be... annoying, yes. In most cases it is definitely not even logical. However, again I see it from a playing view. Quests are planned/executed every day, so it is and is meant to be kind of a little excitement occasionally. We have discussed this before, that more quests often draw more players (even if not *always* true). When there is a quest, I think you should plan on any number of chars to be involved. Afterall, accidents happen, people become involved. &c.
Even in RL when horrible to boring things could be happening, people will often gather just to have a look (think of a highway, where only one side has the auto crash, but somehow both sides are slowed because people on the crash-free side want to see). And actually during quests, I have found many chars who even know there is action going on somewhere else, but are still playing their roles well (and hiding, healing in a boring inn room, and so on). Expect any crowd number.
Last: to Samantha. I do not say this to you as personal or intended insult. But you are really feeding gasoline on the flame, and even encouraging more flaming from player to player because of this. I am sorry, but these interjected comments are just making the case much worse, and much more confusing. For just once, or maybe even a few times hopefully, please
SHUT UP.
I will throw in my two copper now.
I want to ask something first. When you suddenly hear the sound of a sword slash in town, around several chars who are standing around, your immediate response is to slam your finger on the left arrow key and run for a 3rd floor? This is actually a little strange to me. I am a GM now. But before I was a GM I was a player (and I am still now at times). And from my player point of view, my immediate response to signs of attack are RP emotes. In these situations when I am on a playing char, it is usually " #me jumps at the sound ", or " #me looks up from the book with startled eyes." Even in spell attack situations.Damien wrote:If that really is how you think, then supporting you in any RP case is a total waste of time. You can always first leave the danger zone and then emote. Not to mention that picking up items someone dropped should also be really secondary in such a situation, and those doing that, well, just got hit too.
Since it seems these players had no clue, that there would be a big pwning mass of spells coming, I think it is hardly fair that you tell them, they should be able to run out and then emote. Most of the good Roleplayers that I know, will put RP as priority.
When I first got the GM abilities, and knew how to perform them, my first promise to myself was never to attack a char without clearly noticed RP first. It does not matter if you are invisible, or not.
If you cannot be seen- " You hear a faint but malicious hum in the air around you... "
If you are a violent and visible sheep- " #me bares his gnashing molars and growls at the provoking dwarf. "
Do at least something.
WE are used to knowing the GM abilities, how they work, their limits, their usefulness, &c. But why do you somehow expect the players to know, what kind of technical abilities you really have? In my eyes, if no one is responding to frequent emotes, okay sure. Pwn away. (sorry players
) But there is no reason to cast on targets, when nobody knows that there is an invisible spirit, who likes to randomly cast spells on unsuspecting people, who will silently sneak up and attack.My next point is on "dragon chasing." It can be... annoying, yes. In most cases it is definitely not even logical. However, again I see it from a playing view. Quests are planned/executed every day, so it is and is meant to be kind of a little excitement occasionally. We have discussed this before, that more quests often draw more players (even if not *always* true). When there is a quest, I think you should plan on any number of chars to be involved. Afterall, accidents happen, people become involved. &c.
Even in RL when horrible to boring things could be happening, people will often gather just to have a look (think of a highway, where only one side has the auto crash, but somehow both sides are slowed because people on the crash-free side want to see). And actually during quests, I have found many chars who even know there is action going on somewhere else, but are still playing their roles well (and hiding, healing in a boring inn room, and so on). Expect any crowd number.
Last: to Samantha. I do not say this to you as personal or intended insult. But you are really feeding gasoline on the flame, and even encouraging more flaming from player to player because of this. I am sorry, but these interjected comments are just making the case much worse, and much more confusing. For just once, or maybe even a few times hopefully, please
SHUT UP.
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Garett Gwenour
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- Location: Is Roleplay in YOU ?
Is it so difficult for you Damien to apologise? There are numerous things you have done in the past you refuse to apologise over. this one you definately should admit you made a mistake, you won't do it again.
We all want to make illarion a user friendly game. So why must there be incidences where long standing gms who have had plenty of experience and for the most part should have long since gotten over being critized for mistakes, but still cannot handle it. Looking over the response of the gm involved it is just frustrating that the gm took so much time to give a ridiculous emote smiley in every post to make his posts seem as if there was no real problem and in turn no reason to complain.
Will he apologise? No. Will it ever change? No. What will we do? Accept certain things won't ever change in illa because no one will ever care enough to change it.
We all want to make illarion a user friendly game. So why must there be incidences where long standing gms who have had plenty of experience and for the most part should have long since gotten over being critized for mistakes, but still cannot handle it. Looking over the response of the gm involved it is just frustrating that the gm took so much time to give a ridiculous emote smiley in every post to make his posts seem as if there was no real problem and in turn no reason to complain.
Will he apologise? No. Will it ever change? No. What will we do? Accept certain things won't ever change in illa because no one will ever care enough to change it.
There are three pages of debate on the explanation of this, including many posts from the man behind the madness. Quite a few agree that the event went fine. Therefore, here is your explanation from Damien: no explanation is needed. So, we've already gotten through this part of the quote at least.Explaination please
I found it quite entertaining, myself. Except the massive piles of OOC, of course, but we all know that there will always be heaps of it during unexpected events such as this. You can and will always argue that I didn't die and therefore my fun wasn't ruined, and therefore I can't say anything here. But let's just say everybody died. Let's just say that everyone lost their stuff, that everyone was caught off guard. I learn from my experiences; I would have learned that I'm never going NEAR any place where unnexpected magic bolts of lightning and tornadoes are flying around people. I would have learned that I'm never going NEAR any two arguing peoples with such power. I would have learned a lot from my experience and wouldn't quite have found the event as "frikkin' rediculous". But, of course, I didn't experience it that way and you can always hold that against me.this was frikkin ridiculous.
I hope we all do by now. Moving on to the next quote...And yes, I am aware which GM it was.
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Obviously not, if he thinks he did nothing wrong...Will he apologise?
Has this stuff changed before? Definitely, and you've been here far longer than enough to know that. Remember 'quests' from the oldern days when a bored GM spawned demons, rotworms, or red skellies all throughout TB and waited for us to kill them all (while anyone who didn't have good fighting skills was utterly screwed for hours)? At maximum, in those days they wrote a single !bc saying "you hear strange noises all around Trollsbane." Back in the oldern days, we had to work our butts off to get quests and we worked so hard just to be screwed over and over and over. So some people are still getting screwed over to this day (what kind of quest is it where everyone benefits?); there is no way it's as bad as it once was.Will it ever change?
I personally think that we had plenty of time to escape. Most people simply did not move because they didn't want to miss out on the event. But what they realized too late is that a major part of the event was the explosion of power which killed everybody who stood in it for a minute. Not to mention, the crazed attack that ended Misijah's life so abruptly and brought hordes of confusion and anger into the situation in the first place. I think if that scene would have played out correctly, this thread would exist to congratulate the quest givers and participants on a job well done.
There is only one thing that we have been doing since forever: complain/debate over what happened. Maybe I'm just blind, but I'm sure things like this have changed for the better. A great example is the GM that played the lizard that helped us rebuild the old ruins of Tanora's shrine. The whole thing, first of all, was unplanned and happened out of unnexpectedly. We roleplayed moving rocks, cutting reeds, etc. and she worked with it so well that we technically built a part of the world. If we were to try that a few years ago, we'd get a "Good luck with that," from everybody.What will we do? Accept certain things won't ever change in illa because no one will ever care enough to change it.
I have work in 6 and a half hours and would like to get some sleep, so here is my conclusion:
-Damien won't apologise because he thinks what he did was right.
-Everyone who thinks the event went wrong will continue to think so.
-Everyone who thinks the event went fine will continue to think so.
-People who argue here will continue to argue here and elsewhere.
-But I'm sure as pie that the GMs will give us longer, more explicit "warnings" from now on, just because they've gotten tired of these topics. No, not because of our great points and arguments; not because of the wonderful debates in these forums. Butsimply because after seeing an angry topic in the forums after every quest, it gets rather annoying...
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Garett Gwenour
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I'm just going to throw in my opinion on the general idea of #me vs reacting sensibly to real time situations. I won't comment on this specific case, since the details are somewhat unclear.
This is somewhat of an example of what I mean when I feel Illarion these days focuses too much on #me details and not on the "big picture". When something important is happening in real time, such as your impending death, and you just #me away about how you feel rather than actually physically trying to maneuver your character, then to me it's a rather stupid and unnecessary use of the #me function. When your enemy (GM or otherwise) has already begun an actual attack, I don't think you should expect your enemy to wait for you to #me or consider your well being to be the most important aspect of the event. Rather I think you should keep in mind that your enemy is still trying to kill you as per the competitive aspect of fighting and the game. If you think that the #me is the driving stick that is supposed to completely determine the outcome of events in the game rather than actually "playing" it, then I think Illarion loses its excitment of reacting in real time. To me, that defeats the whole purpose of Illarion being a graphical real time client rather than a regular text based roleplaying game.
Illarion is a roleplaying game, but it's still a "game" and not just a "show". I understand that sometimes there are fights that are just for "show" in a storyline and not actually compeitive. That's fine and all, but there are also actual confrontations and conflicts too. It's nice that there's a bit of "show" in fighting, but I think it's already come to the point where the "show" has enormously eclipsed the "game/competition" part of fighting, and perhaps other aspects of the game as well. It seems like now the "show" is 95% of everything, and the game/competitive nature is non-existant, as if Illarion is the WWF. Personally I think the "show" should be a balanced 50%-75% of the game, not 95%.
There was a moderately old saying around Illarion that went:
"Don't forget, you're playing together with each other, not against each other."
I think people flew much too far with that idea and overshot the landing field, so I would say:
"Don't forget, you're playing together with each other AND against each other."
This is somewhat of an example of what I mean when I feel Illarion these days focuses too much on #me details and not on the "big picture". When something important is happening in real time, such as your impending death, and you just #me away about how you feel rather than actually physically trying to maneuver your character, then to me it's a rather stupid and unnecessary use of the #me function. When your enemy (GM or otherwise) has already begun an actual attack, I don't think you should expect your enemy to wait for you to #me or consider your well being to be the most important aspect of the event. Rather I think you should keep in mind that your enemy is still trying to kill you as per the competitive aspect of fighting and the game. If you think that the #me is the driving stick that is supposed to completely determine the outcome of events in the game rather than actually "playing" it, then I think Illarion loses its excitment of reacting in real time. To me, that defeats the whole purpose of Illarion being a graphical real time client rather than a regular text based roleplaying game.
Illarion is a roleplaying game, but it's still a "game" and not just a "show". I understand that sometimes there are fights that are just for "show" in a storyline and not actually compeitive. That's fine and all, but there are also actual confrontations and conflicts too. It's nice that there's a bit of "show" in fighting, but I think it's already come to the point where the "show" has enormously eclipsed the "game/competition" part of fighting, and perhaps other aspects of the game as well. It seems like now the "show" is 95% of everything, and the game/competitive nature is non-existant, as if Illarion is the WWF. Personally I think the "show" should be a balanced 50%-75% of the game, not 95%.
There was a moderately old saying around Illarion that went:
"Don't forget, you're playing together with each other, not against each other."
I think people flew much too far with that idea and overshot the landing field, so I would say:
"Don't forget, you're playing together with each other AND against each other."
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Damien
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@Rinya:
In an explosion, you usually do NOT have time to run, right ?
This one actually gave you time to react. Two emotes long for one player!
Next time in such a situation, i'll just forget about EVERY softness, and use realism instead.
Sudden death on everyone close around. And THEN a broadcast saying that a huge explosion killed the bystanders.
Would have been MUCH simpler, and would have caused by far LESS complaints.
One can also overdo it with emotes, especially in Situations where you should need quick reactions.
Its the same thing when a GM plays a MONSTER. Last time i "monstered" with a BIG thing, i had a player running up saying "#me pokes the demon". He afterwards complained for getting killed like "Ur a GM, how could you kill me..."
Since things like this happen more and more often lately, i'll simply act a bit stricter. I said so a while ago, and i definitely do it.
Actually, people picked up the drop during the flashes ! And then OTHERS complain why these died. That's just dammn stupid.
To everyone:
Once and for all, and these are my last words in this discussion :
If you happen to come into a dangerous situation, and if you react stupid or take far too much time, your character will be poofed. Pulling a Dragon's tail WILL cause death.
Furthermore, i'm thinking about strictly banning everyone who starts OOC ingame during events.
In an explosion, you usually do NOT have time to run, right ?
This one actually gave you time to react. Two emotes long for one player!
Next time in such a situation, i'll just forget about EVERY softness, and use realism instead.
Sudden death on everyone close around. And THEN a broadcast saying that a huge explosion killed the bystanders.
Would have been MUCH simpler, and would have caused by far LESS complaints.
One can also overdo it with emotes, especially in Situations where you should need quick reactions.
Its the same thing when a GM plays a MONSTER. Last time i "monstered" with a BIG thing, i had a player running up saying "#me pokes the demon". He afterwards complained for getting killed like "Ur a GM, how could you kill me..."
Since things like this happen more and more often lately, i'll simply act a bit stricter. I said so a while ago, and i definitely do it.
Actually, people picked up the drop during the flashes ! And then OTHERS complain why these died. That's just dammn stupid.
To everyone:
Once and for all, and these are my last words in this discussion :
If you happen to come into a dangerous situation, and if you react stupid or take far too much time, your character will be poofed. Pulling a Dragon's tail WILL cause death.
Furthermore, i'm thinking about strictly banning everyone who starts OOC ingame during events.
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Lance Thunnigan
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Dónal Mason
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