A line in the Sand

Post by **Nitram** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:48 pm

You can ignore the noob, or you can help him. But if you scare him away, we lose a player.

All, ALL noobs can learn how to roleplay, if you try to involve and help them.
And those who can't will leave anyway again.

And if you don't have the time to help a newbe for any reason, you can use the !gm command. As long as i'm online, i get this calls. The a gm will help the players. No big thing.

But "get out of the game and read the manuel" will make the new players logging out and never in again.

And i would rather loose a player who scares away all new players, then loosing 10 new players who become good roleplayers slowly.

Nitram

Enwell van Illdoran · Post by **Enwell van Illdoran** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:49 pm

in this case i agree with patric..
but then they don't wanna learn..
but i won't tell them to play another game at once.. just leave then and ignore him if he continues bothering you, if he ignores what you told him ( where to find the rules and the manual) he maybe will follow but maybe he wil see your rp, and learn from that..

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:54 pm

And i would rather loose a player who scares away all new players, then loosing 10 new players who become good roleplayers slowly.

What happened with the "quality, not quantity" thought behind illarion? So the defs prefer many players with low roleplay understanding and who continuisly disturb the ingame atmosphere with their many noob questions than fewer good roleplayers who build something up ingame?

since when counts the quantity more than the quality here?

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:55 pm

Samantha Meryadeles wrote:
And i would rather loose a player who scares away all new players, then loosing 10 new players who become good roleplayers slowly.
What happened with the "quality, not quantity" thought behind illarion? So the defs prefer many players with low roleplay understanding and who continuisly disturb the ingame atmosphere with their many noob questions than fewer good roleplayers who build something up ingame?

since when counts the quantity more than the quality here?

That was one person's opinion, BTW.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:56 pm

one of the most important person behind illarion. one of the guys who did the most scripting and work behind the new illarion.

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:00 pm

What happened with the "quality, not quantity" thought behind illarion? So the defs prefer many players with low roleplay understanding and who continuisly disturb the ingame atmosphere with their many noob questions than fewer good roleplayers who build something up ingame?

Reminds me of runescape actually.

Post by **Nitram** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:03 pm

Quality and Quantity. Interessting topic.

Currently we have a fine quality but a awful quantity.

To have Quality with 2 players (quantity) is not that fine.

Everyone will aggree in this point.

If we help the newbies and do not scare then away.
If we show them the roleplay and do not sending them out for reading the manual.

Then i think we can have our quality and increase the quantity. And this, and only this, is the purpose.

Nitram

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:04 pm

Jolly good show Nitram. I agree.

Mairead · Post by **Mairead** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:05 pm

Samantha Meryadeles wrote:
And i would rather loose a player who scares away all new players, then loosing 10 new players who become good roleplayers slowly.
What happened with the "quality, not quantity" thought behind illarion? So the defs prefer many players with low roleplay understanding and who continuisly disturb the ingame atmosphere with their many noob questions than fewer good roleplayers who build something up ingame?

since when counts the quantity more than the quality here?

The point is, that everyone deserves a chance. You can't judge someone potential at the very first beginning. Most of us had a bad start as well and were somehow noob-ish.

Noone forces you to help someone, but instead of telling the new players off, you could ask someone else (a gm) if you feel overstrained...

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:13 pm

Well, Here we go. Most of you know that my main charactewr thoroughly hates stephen. While i think Sam can be an arrogant prick sometimes(He just doesn't think some things through first, We all do really) I hold no grudges or hate against him. Taylor does. Alister doesn't. Sebastian just likes to cause chaos as he is a follower of nargun Follower, not hardcore follower like crazy person

. Here is why taylor hates Stephen. He hates stephen because Taylor is loyal to four people. Pendar, Caitlin, Revlen, and Mairead. Stephen took over Pendars town by force and Refused to let Taylor lead as Revlen had ordered because of a few petty threats. Taylor didn't resist the removal because he waits for revlen, If you actually look at things, Taylor broke no rulse, Just players said he did.

Stephen is a great player, a prick and a womanizer, but what leader is not? Pendar was the exception, b ut i did see him flirt quite alot

. We all know Arist and Athian Womanize, i mean, comeon

The thing is. The more expierenced players, that love to take the time to help a newb get to know the ropes, Do so.

I've actually broken a awesome rp between Mai and Taylor to help a noob. Same as when he was with revlen aswell. I pull people outside of town asking ooc, and many have said they walk back into town 10x better. Po Maggie, Po Mairead, Po Athian(ONCE! too much of a loner to do it twice

), along with a list of many others, Including the always Po Alkuurg the Great, I have all seen do the same thing. With stephen, I have seen him train newbs after that with the knighthood and guard. But as to starting out training, I have not seen it personaly.

So as to signing it, I will, But these are just my points

Enwell van Illdoran · Post by **Enwell van Illdoran** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:44 pm

Nitram wrote:Quality and Quantity. Interessting topic.

Currently we have a fine quality but a awful quantity.

To have Quality with 2 players (quantity) is not that fine. Everyone will aggree in this point.

If we help the newbies and do not scare then away.
If we show them the roleplay and do not sending them out for reading the manual.

Then i think we can have our quality and increase the quantity. And this, and only this, is the purpose.

Nitram

i renember to have heard this topic on the last rl..

But serious, we really do not have quantity of 2 players. We have lots of good roleplayers. Not enough for the defs, but enough to let an event like yesterday end up in a fiasco or with a satisfied smile on everyones face..

Sess'sth · Post by **Sess'sth** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:49 pm

~Tim

Taylor wrote:Stephen is a great player, a prick and a womanizer, but what leader is not? Pendar was the exception, b ut i did see him flirt quite alot . We all know Arist and Athian Womanize, i mean, comeon

Hence they make great leaders. You are exactly right. If some people haven't noticed, this world is corrupt as crap and there's nothing we can do to stop it. The leaders of our Illarion society are amazing roleplayers because they play accurate authority figures (greedy bastards, warmongers, powerhungry imbeciles, etc.) and are willing to RUIN their reputation to make the game fun. What people must realize is that this is how their characters are SUPPOSED to be; they don't act that way to make you angry OOC, but they do to make your characters IC. Just think to yourself how the game would be WITHOUT these players, these characters. It would suck. They bring so much conflict into this game - this game NEEDS conflict. That is why the staff lets players lead, that is why the staff lets players choose what happens in quests, that is why the staff lets us play the way we want instead of the way they want. That is why this game is worth playing. Period. A few years ago, we hated the staff because they gave us no power, yet they said we could "change the world" somehow. But look at us now: Lyrenzia collapsed and ONE man is leading the main hotspot of the game. Truthfully, I wish Stephen would be more corrupt, more sinister. People complain about being jailed for no reason and wrongful punishment, but THAT is how the "real world" was (and is to this day) in such situations. These players don't only play historically acurrate characters, they play characters who bring so much conflict into this game to make it FUN. Don't you dare tell me that what they did ruined your roleplay, because they did nothing but make it more interesting! This game is for all of us, and therefore we have to work around and work with situations that, in a sense, spontaneously occur. You can NEVER say that such roleplay is bad. That would be stupid. Period. The end.

EDIT: I think I may have posted in the wrong topic.

Idiot. But my point stands.

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:51 pm

Amen my red lizard brother *e-high-five*

Pronon Palmsuger · Post by **Pronon Palmsuger** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:17 pm

Is it honestly possible to disagree with the post? Not only is it utterly one sided, the person who does disagree will immediately be shunned by those who just now condemned shunning.

I agree with the "Don't shun off new players" but Fooser tackles the problem in a mere sentence.

Moreover, the elitist attitude is perpetuated far further than just not wanting to play with new players, a thing that all of us must plead guilty to at some point. The attitude spawns with the idea of community, I've said it before and here I'll say it again. Topics like "Whose Roleplay did you enjoy today?" Always say the same few people, often times the players who are good chums on MSN. Topics like "Illarion Nostalgia" preference the older players to the newer ones. But the very worst offender is MSN. You cannot deny that it happens, players become good friends over MSN, they post little inside jokes all over the boards, they exclude others from their little cliques, they post lots of "XXX said something on MSN that really made my day." That is rarely useful information to anyone but the speaker and the spoken to. It become clearly evident in threads like "How do you feel right now?" where some players are blatantly ignored while others are swarmed with attention. I can even attest to a newer player attempting to add one of the anti-shun gurus to ask a roleplaying question and rather than being welcomed in with open arms he was blocked immediately.

The very idea of a community is a closed group of people, this is the premise that turns a lot of new players away. MSN extends it further by making smaller communities of highly favored players who seem to dominate the boards. These smaller communities often tend to appear unapproachable to new players, specifically because of their age, their close knittedness and their supposed "awesome roleplay," which is brought up in threads about quests and "Whose Roleplay did you like today?"

So as "Just one of those spam bots who goes on and on and on and on about stuff that at the end of the day, you just can't be bothered to read" I sign this Petition.

--PO Pronon

Enwell van Illdoran · Post by **Enwell van Illdoran** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:30 pm

Well, i disagree with that, in most points.. of course there are people who know each other, but i and some people i know, often mention and praise the roleplay of chars they do not know..

i do agree with "How do you feel", and that, but i think most of them therefor spamming..
but cliques? Well to which clique i am blonging then? to the JEN-crew or the Sam!-Unit? Or should i open up the ToNi Roawr 61ers Gangster Clikk?
THats bullshit.. that sounds like we better shouldn't be friends outside the game.... n thts bullshit..

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:32 pm

I guess I can be a bit cliqueish like that. But I do praise the roleplay of people I do not know more often than of people that I do know, because the people that I do know already know that I find their RP praisable. (Rambling much?)

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:35 pm

Just one of those spam bots who goes on and on and on and on about stuff that at the end of the day, you just can't be bothered to read

I could have sworn i said that a few months ago...

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:07 pm

I'm just going to stand beside Nitram on every point, cos he's better at this than me and I share his opinion.

~Alex~

P.s. But by the way, I think at the minute we should try and get a few more players and teach them to RP. We shouldn't just reject new players, or let 10s stampede without learning to roleplay. There are enough players to teach though, and, unless I'm in an important RP, I'll usually go and help the newbies.

P.p.s. If you're wondering why I haven't called them noobs, I just find the word noob a patronizing version of newbie.

Edit: Wow. I skimmed page 2, but now I've just read pronon's post, he's completely, completely correct; in every way. People have their factions, love each other and hate many others. You can't solve this problem. It's too late. People have already become hated by the populars (e.g. me) and populars have already been made. It's just like in a school; you have the popular, think they're hards, the bullies, the alright people, the unnoticed people and the "too clever" ones who get shunned. But I know some, maybe even a lot of you don't have very good out-of-illarion social life and are shunned, yet you do it to others! It's ridiculous, the prey are turning onto online predators. It all seems rather petty. I'm about to get flamed I wreckon, for the 10 squabazillionth time. I would actually LIKE to get flamed, as it would possibly prove my above theory. If I'm not flamed and you agree, well congrats, it took a 14 year old to figure this out.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:15 pm

Enwell van Illdoran wrote:the ToNi Roawr 61ers Gangster Clikk?

I would definetly join up in that.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:24 pm

Fooser wrote:
Enwell van Illdoran wrote:the ToNi Roawr 61ers Gangster Clikk?
I would definetly join up in that.

I'd join up for the |_|832 |=00532 94|\|9

Enwell van Illdoran · Post by **Enwell van Illdoran** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:24 pm

AlexRose12345678910 wrote:I'm just going to stand beside Nitram on every point, cos he's better at this than me and I share his opinion.

~Alex~

Oh, now that is smart.. You know that 70 years ago thought: "I'm just going to stand beside Hitler on every point", because of the same reason?

(Nitri, please don't think i think you re like Hitler, i think you know how this one is meant))

You were playing Illarion, quite often weren't you? You share the same experience with n00bs like any other player

AlexRose12345678910 wrote:

P.s. But by the way, I think at the minute we should try and get a few more players and teach them to RP. We shouldn't just reject new players, or let 10s stampede without learning to roleplay. There are enough players to teach though, and, unless I'm in an important RP, I'll usually go and help the newbies.

At the minute we are trying to find a way to solve the situation that we can help newbies without leeting our important RPs slippin'...

AlexRose12345678910 wrote:

P.p.s. If you're wondering why I haven't called them noobs, I just find the word noob a patronizing version of newbie.

Whatever..

Fooser wrote:
Enwell van Illdoran wrote:the ToNi Roawr 61ers Gangster Clikk?
I would definetly join up in that.

No, aren't you already in the Sam!-unit?

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:41 pm

In light of this topic I have summoned Jen to the rescue to teach a new player Illarion. =3

Szi Ruuk! Welcome to Illarion.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:42 pm

Enwell van Illdoran wrote:
Fooser wrote:
Enwell van Illdoran wrote:the ToNi Roawr 61ers Gangster Clikk?
I would definetly join up in that.
No, aren't you already in the Sam!-unit?

No, I'm in the Foos Lose Squad, with only myself. And sometimes Aristeaus on Friday nights.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:53 pm

Back on topic - Here's a recent roleplay that annoyed me because of an old quote.

William Elderberry: ((can we keep this rp))
William Elderberry: ((no ctrlclicks))
Gra'able Bonegrinder: ((no!))

Back in time:
Gra'able Bonegrinder: ((Anyway I want an Rp fight not this crappy control click stuff))
Taylor Windslasher (w): ((pfft. I've tryed RP fighting with you, You just act like a smiling god and never loose. smile that.))

Now I would say nothing personal, but recently I was trying to RP a few times in the day but i got these comments:

Gra'able Bonegrinder: ((DO us a favour kev, and admit that PO of William can NOT RP!))

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:55 pm

i wouldnt say that you cant rp. but you have a habbit of speaking too much unimportant ooc in non needed situations

Jon Childs · Post by **Jon Childs** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:57 pm

Seriously, Ok, when taylor said that, I had never RP fighted him before, you for one are a n00b.....Seriously......Someone needs to teach you, taht this game is a MEDIEVAL set game. Not a new age game where you can shout "Screw you" at everyone.

And I see a pattern. Taylor can pwn Gra, so Taylor wants to ctrl + click, Gra can pwn William so I want to ctrl + click.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:58 pm

So rp fight is okay as long as you are weaker. but when you can kill him you just want to ctrl+click?

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:59 pm

What you just said was BS. Taylor cntrl clicked Stephen in a fight, Same with Athian, same with Revlen, same with Kamik. So what you just said is idiotic. You never lose in an RP fight no matter if your character is weaker than the other. THAT is why i do not rp fight with you.

Jon Childs · Post by **Jon Childs** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:00 pm

Hm, ok.....

You are C1, I am C2.... C2 is way weaker than C1, C2 wants an RP fight becaus ehe is weak C1 wants a ctrl + click fight because he knwos that the RP fight would result in loss (well probably).

Now, thats why I dont like the ctrl + click system nor the RP fight system.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:02 pm

We could change to "paper, scissor, rock"