A line in the Sand

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:31 am

I would also like to make a serious post.

We all talk about how we want more players interested in roleplaying in a serious roleplaying game; what would send possibly interested good roleplayers away from illarion less then a flamewar like the one Patric opened?

We all love and care for this game and what goes on inside it. We all want to play with everyone and want everyone to play with us. We don't want to ever make players feel like they are shunned and not allowed to play with certain factions of players because they are not good enough or because they are simply not liked ooc. That is not at all what Illarion is about; Illarion is about playing an ever growing and evolving game that lets everyone interact with everyone at any time. No one should ever think to themselves, "Oh..No one on the online list lets me play with them so I will not play tonight" the thought of Illarion's players actually promoting this, I won't say names if you read the forum's today and yesterday you can name them on your own, sickens me. And frustates me greatly.

It frustrates me because I know that some players do have a great dislike for me OOC, that I can deal with, the vast majority of players like myself can set ooc differences aside and play our game and enjoy ourselves and build friendships from that. What truely bothers me is I know for a fact these certain players do the exact same tactic to new players, who do not have the roleplaying confidence nor sturdy foundation I have and so they drop out of sight and go away because certain players pester them OOC, call them out OOC, harass them OOC and so because of these roleplaying elitist who carry grudges after the client is shut up, numerous players leave. Take a look at the Trolls Bane citizenry, you think all those new players left because they didn't like Illarion?

Everyone loves to play Illarion, anyone who plays runescape/everquest/tibia raves about Illarion because most people enjoy playing a character that can be respected and loved. These new players enjoy the game, but they do not see why they should stay when already established players will not take the time out of their day to teach them the basics of roleplaying, the basics of how to work the game. Instead when they ask "How do I buy things?" they hear ((whisper and use double brackets when you talk OOC?)), then the new player walks over to the only character who replied to him and will say "What?" and I have seen this done by certain players before ((If you cannot understand to whisper and use double brackets to talk ooc you don't belong here)).

This kind of attitude of dragging dirty laundry onto the public forums, harassing new players who have proven they can play by passing our account system, and pestering players consistently in Off Topic threads needs to stop. We all need to grow up a little bit more. We all need to understand this game is not a single player game, or a two player game; it is a multiplayer online roleplaying game and we all deserve to have fun, we all deserve to play with everyone and we cannot let something unexpected furiate us to such a point that we must drag it into a venomous thread in a thread for positive and useful information.

This is the main reason PO Pendar Fayed left. And likely why he won't becoming back any time soon. Because these certain players still remain and seemingly will never change nor never leave. I will make you leave or change here and now. I draw a line in the sand. This elitist anti ignorant noobie attitude will stop now.

All who agree sign herein

~Sam

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:35 am

-Karl

Irania · Post by **Irania** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:36 am

*snookes the ever cute Sammy*

Alli!

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:42 am

~Eric

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:44 am

I agree, but what I dislike the most is when theses persons disliking a player makes it change their RP toward him/her. To me its just anti-RP and shoulnt be done at any mean. But yeah, I also understand the thing about new players, some of them can learn very fast, some dosent. The main reason of this being that some could have never played and RPG or Roleplaying games, and others coming from UO and already being experimented.

But thoses that have troubles at first can still become good RPers, they just need some times to understand what a RPing game is, and such. I have "teached" many n00bs to mine with Arameh, when they didnt know anything. Some started Rping at their first day, some had troubles at the fourth one, but in the end it dosent really change a lot. Anyway, thats pretty much what I wanted to type.

-Dan

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:47 am

You're shunning and telling people to leave too, merely putting a different spin on it.

Findecano · Post by **Findecano** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:20 am

I agree completely with Garret. None of this helps Illarion at all.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:30 am

I agree some people's attitudes should change on here, because there's nothing more laughable than an elitist for a very small game. Yeah, congrats, you're the coolest player in Illarion...that's like being first in the special olympics (joking, joking, don't get on my back ensuing PC mob!).

But really, it's like Illarion has been so enclosed as a small community for so long that the guys who've been playing it are only able to think that what they do is "the standard" for role playing. So, yes...we are the inbred hick family of the online gaming community. We deserve a trophy.

Deinarious · Post by **Deinarious** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:47 am

~Christopher Robert Fowler the First.

Shandariel el Lysanthrai · Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:16 am

What you named a flame thread was started as a complaint of several players whose gamefun and roleplay evening got destroyed by other players ingame behaviour. it become a flamewar after some children started to brag and write nonsense

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:57 am

Shandariel el Lysanthrai wrote:What you named a flame thread was started as a complaint of several players whose gamefun and roleplay evening got destroyed by other players ingame behaviour. it become a flamewar after some children started to brag and write nonsense

You made it a flame-war.

Anyhow:

-Erik AKA Misjbar

Liles · Post by **Liles** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:51 am

I agree completely with the part about the new players. I hate seeing others try to take advantage and even try to kill them to make them go away...

Consider it signed.

Mairead · Post by **Mairead** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:02 am

Liles wrote:I agree completely with the part about the new players. I hate seeing others try to take advantage and even try to kill them to make them go away...

There are also those who really walk up to the new players and try to help them where they can and who have a hell of patience. Unfortunately, there are always exceptions.

Aaanyway:

~ Jen

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:34 am

I am one of those characters that greets everyone! No matter how I feel ooc, I have to consider, how does Dusty feel, what is his motivation, what has he done in the past, where does he want to go in the future. This is just common sense role-playing.

The character you create has a life (virtually) with his own friends, habits, goals and experiences. Not to Role-play Dusty as Dusty, but ooc, would cheapen the experience that is Illarion.

Why is Illarion so good? Because players care about 'developing' their characters, and because we respect our own characters so much,we naturally begin to respect others. It just takes respect.

I believe some 'children' don't respect their own characters enough to respect anyone else. If death was permanent, this kind of behavior would surely end immediately. But with resurrections, Death as a consequence is a joke. so these players fear nothing it seems for their bad behavior.

Add me to your list.
Ever for some'common sense' and 'respectful' role-playing,
~Juniper Onyx, aka Dusty Bottoms of Greenbriar

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:40 am

So, who wants to take a guess why I left for so long?

Mhm.. it wasn't just because of comp problems. Yes, I had comp problems at first... but only for a couple of weeks. I could have come back much, much sooner... so why was I gone for some 8 months?

Because of the elitist attitude. A handful of players welcomed me and played with me... Aristeaus, Adigar, Kamik, Devrah, Aegohl, Thalodos; you are the ones who drew me back to this game, and I'm glad I did return. But most players wouldn't even deign to really notice me, because I wasn't one of the 'in crowd'. I was just a newbie... but I was good enough at RP that I didn't even get noticed as needing help, after Thalodos took me around the first day and showed me the 'basics' that make Illarion different from other games. I just slipped in and disappeared into the game; and all but a handful of players never again deigned to notice I existed, until I came back with the confidence to *put* my foot in the door.

So, yes. I most vehemently sign.

~Jen (yes, another one.

)

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:04 am

I think.. that I am a stranger to the commonplace happenings of Illarion. I rarely play anymore. But I watch. I read. I socialize with other Illarionites. I know a lot of what goes on behind the scenes.. or so I do like to think (not to sound elitist XD). And I think a lot of what happens behind the scenes is bullshit. A lot of players (old generation and new, to reference Dyluck's summation of the Illarion community cycle) need to keep themselves in check on a more regular basis. I love to argue just as much as the next person.. but I'm really tired of seeing (and participating in) arguments about how players behave towards other players, both new and old. So many times have I told everyone that I am leaving and so many times have I been dragged back into the game and community by a select few people, only to feel unwelcome by the completely isolated RP (cliques, to put it bluntly) of so many. I sign.

One of the four Divine Ericks >.>

Aristeaus · Post by **Aristeaus** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:10 am

Sam wrote more than a sentance im impressed. Guess i have to sign.

Darren

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:50 am

I agree on pretty much all those points.
As some may or may not know that one of the chars got kicked out the PO of that char came back with another of his chars, that already had been trained and tried to wreck the party once more, claiming that there is a decent IC reason for it.

So here's my name to prove that I agree
Kevin

I also have to however (partialy) agree with misj, it did indeed start with Shand(as far as I can remember >.<)... But I also think that the reason it started was largly to blame on those few who kept trying to wreck everything. If you wanna wreck the party, fine. But atleast rp it decently.

Just cause you don't like the PO doesn't mean you shouldn't like the chars he/she plays. I mean... Kevin is pretty much in a mess with Stephen and Arameh right now, but their PO's are still my friends. And although Galim Isn't my bestest of friends either, but I dont tend to treat his chars in another way.... For those small events when they do interact.... sadly they hardly ever do. And if I've ever treated someone's char wrong because of their PO, well, sorry.
If you let your personal emotions towards one interfear with your characters, it's simply a bad example of roleplaying.

And for all you so called elite roleplayers: You were newbies to once and not everyone is a fast learner. Any of those newbies you scared off might just have become a great roleplayer, thank you for ruining that.
I mean, everyone gets irritated by all the newbies running around sometimes. But still you should keep trying to make them into great roleplayers, show some willpower.
Alot of people seem to only interact with those they already know and keep away from others since they might just not be nice to them in ooc or they might not be the best of roleplayers. That kind of mentality ruins the game.

Not everyone reads all of the Illarion website and Moonsilver.
Nor does everyone read the manual, although they should.
Still you should try to help those, and suggest they do read the manual. But don't just ignore them. Be nice to them and they will be nice to you and the rp you can have together can be a great reward.

I came here not knowing the first thing about roleplaying, people taught me to roleplay decently. But if alot of people would have ignored me I would have left to in the first week or so.

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:47 pm

Martin

Astrell Merdier · Post by **Astrell Merdier** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:26 pm

~ PO Astrell

Alytys Lamar · Post by **Alytys Lamar** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:29 pm

...... after thorough consideration

PO Aleytys Lamar

krazytoe · Post by **krazytoe** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:31 pm

signed-and agree from experience of being shunned, everybody was new once and would benefit from remembering this.

Post by **Nitram** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:36 pm

~Martin

But i think the simple sign in under Sams texts (that contains many true things) doesn't change that much.

We all know there are a few problem. The real question is, how we should solve them.

krazytoe · Post by **krazytoe** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:38 pm

A thorough wipping?

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:58 pm

Mhh... I agree with him.

Post by **Nitram** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:05 pm

krazytoe wrote:A thorough wipping?

Sensless. This is a problem with of the players. Not of the characters. We can wipe the characters. But not the players

Miklorius · Post by **Miklorius** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:15 pm

I try to help newbies which are asking for help, but it's indeed quite annoying if they do not read the manual and are very impatient (something like "Hello?! Answer me!!!").
Maybe the manual should be placed at first installation more visible.

But I also agree that there shouldn't be harsh reactions of "elite" players towards non-trolling newbies. Everybody started once as a new player...

~PO Midrusio

PS: Are there significantly more new players since the Java client?

krazytoe · Post by **krazytoe** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:28 pm

not wiping-whipping,as in with a whip, i just spelled it wrong

Enwell van Illdoran · Post by **Enwell van Illdoran** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:35 pm

~ Tonino

yeah i sign, even if i think that it is not to solve anyway..

Its like you are new in school and trying to get to know some of them other pupils. But the main reason why you are going to school is to learn something. And if you are new, and on your first day you are making mistakes, the whole class will laugh at you and in most of this kinda situations, they will do so the whole time while your in this school..

And since there is school, there are these situations...
All we can do, is to do right and be friendly and patient while telling a newb his mistakes.

ANd i think the best solution for those who are impatient is, to tell them noobs, where to find all that help and instructions they need, than explaining it all to them step by step..

ANd cents "like you don't belong here" are just bad rp for impatience..

If your don't wanna help him, then rp that..
Example

two chars are talking about a really important thing, are really busywith an exiting rp...

n00b: How do i buy stuff ?
Char looks at the stranger, with tears in her eyes..
otherChar looks to the stranger in a kind of sad way..
otherchar: i am sorry, stranger, we are in a private conversation, right now. Go to the marketplace and ask someone there, i am sure they will help you if you ask them friendly.

n00b leaves

you know?
maybe the rulz for n00b help should be changed, as a try of solution

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:39 pm

8 of 10 situations the noob will ask again and ignore the rp you just made. Saw that more than often enough.

if a noob comes who speaks ooc or is doing anything wrong i tell him to read first the manual by pressing F1, and to read the gamerules. And after that continue to play the game. if he did and has still questions i will answer and help. if he doesnt care or don't do...well...than he can go to an other game, if he doesn't even take his time to read the manual and the gamerules and continue to ask in an roleplaying game stuff like "how do u fight", "how do i trade", "teach me magic, k?".