Magic Discussion

[Samantha Meryadeles]

I am apologize for the harsh words. But see, it would have helped more if the scripters would have spoken to the players of the mages before they change everything, and discuss it with them. the mageplayers have the field experience. they play every day, and know how the situation is ingame. they know better than the scripters what is possible and what not. you wanted to balance it, but at the end it became for most magechars impossible to have equal surviving chances like others. they are now canon fodder.

It is as you said. a mage can't cast from the back of the field. an archer has killed you easily, and enemys simply run around your own warrior, if you have some, and run at you. killing you quickly. i mean, a mage wont have a warrior protecting him as long as he doesnt stand on a battlefield or so. we have simply not the playerbase AND the charbase to have warriors that are there to protect mages. and who can do that. that simply doesnt work in illarion. not enough players, no strong fighters that fit for such a role.


Porection spells should be without casting time. The walls for example. What use has a stonecircle for your protection when you need 4-5 seconds to cast it? every monster or warrior is already by you and hits you before the spell gets casted.

Same with healing spells. A strong healingspell takes 3 second. In a fight a mage wont do anything else than trying to heal the wounds fighters do them. healing should be without castingtime aswell.

Same with teleportation spell. that spell is also used to teleport a mage out of dangerous zones...now the spell takes 3 seconds...before you casted it you get hit, and the spell stopped.

And than there are the easiest spells. Like the normal fireball. it takes 2 seconds to cast that one. maybe no casting times for those. lets say, casting times just for those spells that have more than 3 runes. until now every spell has 1 second casting time for every single rune in its spellcombination.

Nitram told me high willpower can protect you against getting disturbed through a hit by an enemy...but which way? does 18 willpower means you doesnt get disturbed 1 out of 5 spells? or 4 out of 5? i for sure wont run with my mage into a monster to test it <_<


For the strong damage spells. i wrote a good solution for that. that could be used. the damage spells are simply too early too strong. means you have them already on a low skilllevel at maximum damage. that should be changed. the maximum damage of a ra kel qwan should be reached at a master level in commotio. and a ra kel maximum at an average skill. And so on.

[Lance Thunnigan]

I can only sign Samantha's Post.
It indeed sucks now. We're being attacked?
How unlucky that the enemies are close before we even cast the second spell.
And oh, what a bummer that we cannot teleport ourselves out of the battle...
Oooh! Due to our low constitution, we were turned into ham in about 4 seconds without doing anything!

The changes make mage-chars unplayable, imho.

A mage should be a very powerful, hard to beat enemy already at low skills... Swinging a Swordi s easy, but controlling Fire, Ice and Wind is not.
This is also why magic needs so damn much Roleplay to be rewarded with some runes. It is thought ot be way more storng than normal weapon skills... I actually think that every active Mage who has runes is able to RP good enough not to exagerate with the bonuses of magic.
And no, imho, magic is no hard-earned reward anymore.
It is a weaker fighting skill which needs a hell of a lot time and Roleplay to be achieved... Playing a non-pushed mage is nearly impossible.

Please change it back. It was perfect as it was before... Really.

Agreed.

[Taylor]

Playing a non-pushed mage is nearly impossible.

There are two Warlocks that are Non-pushed. And We RP just fine thank you. We are the only True magic users around

[Lance Thunnigan]

Same.

[Korwin]

Fighters always have, always will, and always should have an advantage when fighting monsters. However, if mages are 'balanced' in combat with fighters, I don't know why anyone would play one. In six months, the time I've played my mage, I think it's fair to say I could have a reasonably strong fighter, rather than a mage with six runes.

[Lance Thunnigan]

Because it's so much harder for them than gifhters who just hack 'n slash to gain experience.

[Cassandra Fjurin]

It is as you said. a mage can't cast from the back of the field. an archer has killed you easily, and enemys simply run around your own warrior, if you have some, and run at you. killing you quickly. i mean, a mage wont have a warrior protecting him as long as he doesnt stand on a battlefield or so. we have simply not the playerbase AND the charbase to have warriors that are there to protect mages. and who can do that. that simply doesnt work in illarion. not enough players, no strong fighters that fit for such a role.

=>Sorry but what to do here? Other games doesn't also have the playerbase for such a magic system but it works there. Also Single Player RPG's what to do here? In my eyes maybe a spell which makes the magican not attackable until he doesn't cast? So the fighters can take out the enemys from behind.


Porection spells should be without casting time. The walls for example. What use has a stonecircle for your protection when you need 4-5 seconds to cast it? every monster or warrior is already by you and hits you before the spell gets casted.


=>Which are protection spells, if a spell hits an enemy and decreases the hp 2/3 then its no protection spell.


Same with healing spells. A strong healingspell takes 3 second. In a fight a mage wont do anything else than trying to heal the wounds fighters do them. healing should be without castingtime aswell.

=>no, not in my eyes... healing is a "background spell" for others yes i agree that you should cast the small one very fast but the larger one should need some time, less than now but also 1 - 2 s

Same with teleportation spell. that spell is also used to teleport a mage out of dangerous zones...

=>yes but the dizzy time after casting should be very high here. Why? The warrios also doesn't have an instant "good bye i am off spell" and in this case you will have a very powerfull flee tool. Another posibility is to let the casting time very short 0.5 s and make the spell easy enough that you the chance is high to sucessfully attemp the concentration check.


And than there are the easiest spells. Like the normal fireball. it takes 2 seconds to cast that one. maybe no casting times for those. lets say, casting times just for those spells that have more than 3 runes. until now every spell has 1 second casting time for every single rune in its spellcombination.

=> in my eyes the fireball is no easiest spell it has an incredible high damage for an easy to use instant spell. and the fireball has a casting time from 0.8 seconds. nothing more and nothing less.

Nitram told me high willpower can protect you against getting disturbed through a hit by an enemy...but which way? does 18 willpower means you doesnt get disturbed 1 out of 5 spells? or 4 out of 5? i for sure wont run with my mage into a monster to test it <_<

=> it depends on the difficulty of the spell. an easy spell you have a high chance to getting not disturbed. An difficult spell needs high skills.

For the strong damage spells. i wrote a good solution for that. that could be used. the damage spells are simply too early too strong. means you have them already on a low skilllevel at maximum damage. that should be changed. the maximum damage of a ra kel qwan should be reached at a master level in commotio. and a ra kel maximum at an average skill. And so on.[/quote]

=> not really my oppinion.... if you set up a fire, the fire will burn you this doesn't depend on you fire making skill, a high skill will only increase the chance to sucessfully set up the fire

[Samantha Meryadeles]

Good to see that the scripters listen to the opinion of those having the game expereince with the chars at which they script around.

cassandra, may i ask how much experience you have with playing a mage char in the new magic system? have you played a magechar from the scrap up to one with good skills? have you played a magechar in dozens of different situations and experienced how playable a magechar is in fights against monsters and other playerchars? have you experience about how a magechar can react on all the different situations? his chances and his possibilitys? and their real success?

or do you just know really the scripts and have experience playing a magechar with pushed skills against monsters on the testserver?

I think the scripters should listen more to those having all that experience, and also pay more attention to their opinions and suggestions.


and p.s. with protection spells i meant for example the stone circle, the long stonewall, and the single stonewall. Also healing magic.

And from clicking the spell until its effects last over 1 second time. please dont forget that a 0.8 sec in your scripts is a longer time for us players sitting on the other end of world of the server.

Also the fire is not like real fire. it is magical fire. its strength doesnt depent on physical things, but on the skill of the caster.

[Nalzaxx]

Ive already been nagging Nitram for protection spells ^^

But a few idea's I did have.

There should be two categories: Those that reduce the effects of attacks, and those that allow you to evade the effects of attacks.

For example, you could have a spell like stoneskin, which reduces the amount of damage fighters deal to you. But also at the same time a spell such as arrow deflection, where it makes it much harder for an archer to hit you. The same could apply to magic.

Of course this would be done by raising appropriate attributes periodically, like raising agility to evade. And it goes without saying we need some flashy animation to go with these spells.

How about a spell that makes the casting time for the next spell/couple of spells instant. For instance, mage sits there for 3-4 seconds casting a alacricity spell, and the next 5 or so fireballs he can round off instantly.

Or if you wanted to involve a little more tactics and player intelligence you could have a number of distracting techniques, such as making the mage invisible untill he casts the next spell or for a certain time period. Creating Phantom versions of the caster so the archer doesn't know which to aim at. Etc etc, Obviously this is all up to the devs as you know whats possible and what isn't. Just some idea's for the think tank.


Oh, and BTW, I really like the new casting times, makes magic feel so much more valuable and well...like magic, instead of just a series of button clicks.

As to being annihilated, here is an old chinese proverb for the mage players to keep in mind: "The sparrow keeps out of danger by not landing when the tiger prowls"

[Samantha Meryadeles]

Of course this would be done by raising appropriate attributes periodically, like raising agility to evade.

That wouldn't bring much since high agility doesnt mean you dodge alot. it is the skill you would need. and a very high skill that would be.

Creating Phantom versions of the caster so the archer doesn't know which to aim at

As far as i know just playerchars can have numbers. your phantom versions wouldnt have any number. not much usefull. and i think 100 % invisibility is just for gm's. never for players

Oh, and BTW, I really like the new casting times, makes magic feel so much more valuable and well...like magic, instead of just a series of button clicks.

As to being annihilated, here is an old chinese proverb for the mage players to keep in mind: "The sparrow keeps out of danger by not landing when the tiger prowls"

easily spoken of someone whose magechar for testing was a pushed mage which maximum magic and fighting skills <_<

[Cassandra Fjurin]

Good to see that the scripters listen to the opinion of those having the game expereince with the chars at which they script around.

cassandra, may i ask how much experience you have with playing a mage char in the new magic system? have you played a magechar from the scrap up to one with good skills? have you played a magechar in dozens of different situations and experienced how playable a magechar is in fights against monsters and other playerchars? have you experience about how a magechar can react on all the different situations? his chances and his possibilitys? and their real success?

or do you just know really the scripts and have experience playing a magechar with pushed skills against monsters on the testserver?

I think the scripters should listen more to those having all that experience, and also pay more attention to their opinions and suggestions.


and p.s. with protection spells i meant for example the stone circle, the long stonewall, and the single stonewall. Also healing magic.

And from clicking the spell until its effects last over 1 second time. please dont forget that a 0.8 sec in your scripts is a longer time for us players sitting on the other end of world of the server.

Also the fire is not like real fire. it is magical fire. its strength doesnt depent on physical things, but on the skill of the caster.

Oh yes your oppinion is really neutral. in my eyes a think i have a more neutral point of view than you. I see a basic concept which should be reached and not "my char is weaker than before, Wheee, change it back"

[Samantha Meryadeles]

There is a difference between weaker, and doomed to die.

if you would know about the actual use of magic and the possibilitys ingame you would see that. maybe you should also listen to all the other palyers of mages saying their chars are now fucked?

[Misjbar]

Quote:
Of course this would be done by raising appropriate attributes periodically, like raising agility to evade.


That wouldn't bring much since high agility doesnt mean you dodge alot. it is the skill you would need. and a very high skill that would be.

Okay, turn bitching mode offline please. He was making a suggestion. You always act as if you are attacking someone.

Quote:
Oh, and BTW, I really like the new casting times, makes magic feel so much more valuable and well...like magic, instead of just a series of button clicks.

As to being annihilated, here is an old chinese proverb for the mage players to keep in mind: "The sparrow keeps out of danger by not landing when the tiger prowls"


easily spoken of someone whose magechar for testing was a pushed mage which maximum magic and fighting skills <_<

Attacks on a certain person are not in general welcome in a discussion.

As for new suggestions, I like the alacricity spell Nalzaxx suggested. A sort of "prepare for battle"-spell. Ofcourse, this could be coupled with "dizzyness"-time, as you call it Cassy, afterwards.

[Caldrion Sternenglanz]

I dont like the time between casting and acting spell because it is an disatvantage with the other professions.
If the mage have then, why not the carpenters and smith too?
or a fighter? Let him put a message: He is raising his blade...

than i have nothing to complain.

[Cassandra Fjurin]

I dont like the time between casting and acting spell because it is an disatvantage with the other professions.
If the mage have then, why not the carpenters and smith too?
or a fighter? Let him put a message: He is raising his blade...

than i have nothing to complain.

oh someone has intended the other posibilitys of the system. Congratulations. The mages are a field test. We cant implement that all in one update. But time will show what comes. But i don't agree the point that other professions should have the same restrictions.

Or do the cooks shout out that mages can produce foot with a finger snip?

maybe we should implement that worker will get hurt during work because fighters will get hurt during fighting? The profession have differences.

[Salathe]

I dont like the time between casting and acting spell because it is an disatvantage with the other professions.
If the mage have then, why not the carpenters and smith too?
or a fighter? Let him put a message: He is raising his blade...

than i have nothing to complain.

Fighters have a cooldown after every attack

[Caldrion Sternenglanz]

we mage after a spell, too.

and we need time to click the spell. this is time too.

[NirAntae]

I'm just watching all this from the sidelines, I have not been able to play with the magic in the slightest - RS or TS. However, as such, I can see both sides a little more clearly, I think.

IMHO, the problem here is not the casting times themselves, *or* the disturbance thing itself... it's the combination of the two. The fact that it now takes a few seconds to cast a spell, *and* if you get hit in that time destroys the spell, has really killed the mages as an effective character. Yes, they should not be able to own everyone... I think they were a little overpowered before. But this has made them completely useless.

You compared this to other games, so I'll draw on a little of my experience from another game, UO. It is difficult - but NOT impossible! - for a mage to be an effective 'fighter' in UO. They do have both casting times and a chance to be disturbed. However, for all but the most complex spells, the casting time isn't very long. For example, their spells are broken down into eight 'circles' of difficulty. first circle spells - such as light healing - are pretty much instant. they take a little bit longer, up to eigth circle, which takes about two seconds. As to the 'being disturbed'... they have a skill called 'concentration'. The higher your concentration, the lower your chance of being disturbed. A very new young mage will get disturbed if the enemy breathes at them wrong... but a powerful mage with high stats (primarily INT) and high concentration, can get hit by all but the biggest, baddest enemies and not lose the spell they're casting... invaluable when you're casting, say, meteor storm, which will do massive damage to everyone but you on your screen, but that takes huge amounts of reagents and takes a good 2-4 seconds to cast (that's a LONG time in game-terms).

Also, I might add, in UO you can have riding beasts, such as horses, that make you faster than 95% of non-player enemies. This means the mage can run to the edge of the screen to cast, and get *most* spells off before the non-PC enemy can get there, giving even the 'newest' mage chars a chance against most non-PC enemies. Giving back the self-teleport, as an 'instant' spell, would be comparable to this, IMHO.



So, on to a few 'concrete' suggestions...

For 'easier' spells, and/or 'defensive' spells, have either a casting time (i am referring to more than, say, .5 seconds, which doesn't sound like much but allows plenty of time to be hit), *or* a high chance to be disturbed, but not both. (I might add here that simply being 'in combat'... having your targetter on an enemy or your enemy having a target on you, is all you need to be disturbed in UO, it doesn't require an actual hit... though an actual hit increases the chances.) By these, I mean things like simple healing of a single target, shields/walls/protections, attribute/skill boosts, and so on (I'm not sure exactly what spells are available and/or planned, so I'm being vague, sorry).

For high-powered combat spells, by all means have both the delay and the chance to be disturbed. However, I think a new skill, 'concentration' or such, which would decrease your chances of being disturbed, would be very helpful to make mage-chars a bit more playable.


As has been said, there simply isn't the playerbase to make it necessary for a mage to have attendant fighters in order to be effective. You say 'well it works in other games'... I have *never* played another online game with an active playerbase of less than 100 people. Even on the UO freeshards, which have a signifigantly lower playerbase than the main shards, you still have at least as many players at any time as Illa, usually much higher, hundreds. The main shards have thousands at most times. And while it might *help* mages there to have a fighter along with them to play 'shield'... it is NOT necessary. A mage does have a *chance* against most enemies by themselves... with 'lesser' enemies, a very good chance.


It is NO fun to play a character that *must have* a guard of other PC's to be able to do *anything*.

* * *

On a slightly different note, I think it is too hard to learn the basics of magic right now, and too easy to learn the difficult stuff once you've gotten the basics. If you create a character you intend to become a mage, you can't do *anything* towards that goal unless and until you have snuggled up to one of the - what, 3? - characters that are capable of teaching magic.

You have Athian - he teaches quickly, from what I've seen, but only a very, very few students... 2, so far.

You have Samantha - very picky about her students, and says that she won't teach them anything, really, for the first six months! Even taking into account that's only 2 months real time, that means you have to pour a lot of time and RP into a char that you can't do *anything* with, even training, for several months... and that's once she's accepted you, which you may have to wait up to 2 months RL before she'll even look at you, since she only does the 'testing' once every six months, too.

I hear that one of the elves... Djironnyma, I think?... is also capable of teaching magic, but if I'm not mistaken, that's pretty much only for German speakers, so no offense, but I know nothing about it.

Hm... the teacher for the 'evil' mages is gone now... Jeremy isn't capable of teaching yet... and I, at least, know of no one else who is currently capable and/or willing to teach.


My suggestions for dealing with this:

I understand the 'importance' of having a teacher before you can actually cast magic. It helps keep magic 'special' and assures that only those with good RP skills can have it (although you've just seriously decreased the power of magic, and thus I don't think it should be quite so severely guarded any more). However, perhaps being able to learn some of the 'attendant skills' on your own would help decrease the feelings of utter uselessness of the characters until they can get a teacher... being able to study Ancient on your own, for example, instead of having to go through one of the teachers to get the 'textbooks'. Either be able to buy the textbooks yourself from some NPC, or have an NPC who will teach you after a sort of mini-quest (like the elven teacher... which I still can't find -.-).

Also, I'm sure some people (like me!) would be quite willing to play a 'throw away' character (after a sort of magic crash-course OOC) who is GM pushed to act *strictly* as a teacher, until there are more PC mages capable of teaching... at which point the 'throw aways' would be deleted.

[Lance Thunnigan]

I'm just watching all this from the sidelines, I have not been able to play with the magic in the slightest - RS or TS. However, as such, I can see both sides a little more clearly, I think.

IMHO, the problem here is not the casting times themselves, *or* the disturbance thing itself... it's the combination of the two. The fact that it now takes a few seconds to cast a spell, *and* if you get hit in that time destroys the spell, has really killed the mages as an effective character. Yes, they should not be able to own everyone... I think they were a little overpowered before. But this has made them completely useless.

You compared this to other games, so I'll draw on a little of my experience from another game, UO. It is difficult - but NOT impossible! - for a mage to be an effective 'fighter' in UO. They do have both casting times and a chance to be disturbed. However, for all but the most complex spells, the casting time isn't very long. For example, their spells are broken down into eight 'circles' of difficulty. first circle spells - such as light healing - are pretty much instant. they take a little bit longer, up to eigth circle, which takes about two seconds. As to the 'being disturbed'... they have a skill called 'concentration'. The higher your concentration, the lower your chance of being disturbed. A very new young mage will get disturbed if the enemy breathes at them wrong... but a powerful mage with high stats (primarily INT) and high concentration, can get hit by all but the biggest, baddest enemies and not lose the spell they're casting... invaluable when you're casting, say, meteor storm, which will do massive damage to everyone but you on your screen, but that takes huge amounts of reagents and takes a good 2-4 seconds to cast (that's a LONG time in game-terms).

Also, I might add, in UO you can have riding beasts, such as horses, that make you faster than 95% of non-player enemies. This means the mage can run to the edge of the screen to cast, and get *most* spells off before the non-PC enemy can get there, giving even the 'newest' mage chars a chance against most non-PC enemies. Giving back the self-teleport, as an 'instant' spell, would be comparable to this, IMHO.



So, on to a few 'concrete' suggestions...

For 'easier' spells, and/or 'defensive' spells, have either a casting time (i am referring to more than, say, .5 seconds, which doesn't sound like much but allows plenty of time to be hit), *or* a high chance to be disturbed, but not both. (I might add here that simply being 'in combat'... having your targetter on an enemy or your enemy having a target on you, is all you need to be disturbed in UO, it doesn't require an actual hit... though an actual hit increases the chances.) By these, I mean things like simple healing of a single target, shields/walls/protections, attribute/skill boosts, and so on (I'm not sure exactly what spells are available and/or planned, so I'm being vague, sorry).

For high-powered combat spells, by all means have both the delay and the chance to be disturbed. However, I think a new skill, 'concentration' or such, which would decrease your chances of being disturbed, would be very helpful to make mage-chars a bit more playable.


As has been said, there simply isn't the playerbase to make it necessary for a mage to have attendant fighters in order to be effective. You say 'well it works in other games'... I have *never* played another online game with an active playerbase of less than 100 people. Even on the UO freeshards, which have a signifigantly lower playerbase than the main shards, you still have at least as many players at any time as Illa, usually much higher, hundreds. The main shards have thousands at most times. And while it might *help* mages there to have a fighter along with them to play 'shield'... it is NOT necessary. A mage does have a *chance* against most enemies by themselves... with 'lesser' enemies, a very good chance.


It is NO fun to play a character that *must have* a guard of other PC's to be able to do *anything*.

* * *

On a slightly different note, I think it is too hard to learn the basics of magic right now, and too easy to learn the difficult stuff once you've gotten the basics. If you create a character you intend to become a mage, you can't do *anything* towards that goal unless and until you have snuggled up to one of the - what, 3? - characters that are capable of teaching magic.

You have Athian - he teaches quickly, from what I've seen, but only a very, very few students... 2, so far.

You have Samantha - very picky about her students, and says that she won't teach them anything, really, for the first six months! Even taking into account that's only 2 months real time, that means you have to pour a lot of time and RP into a char that you can't do *anything* with, even training, for several months... and that's once she's accepted you, which you may have to wait up to 2 months RL before she'll even look at you, since she only does the 'testing' once every six months, too.

I hear that one of the elves... Djironnyma, I think?... is also capable of teaching magic, but if I'm not mistaken, that's pretty much only for German speakers, so no offense, but I know nothing about it.

Hm... the teacher for the 'evil' mages is gone now... Jeremy isn't capable of teaching yet... and I, at least, know of no one else who is currently capable and/or willing to teach.


My suggestions for dealing with this:

I understand the 'importance' of having a teacher before you can actually cast magic. It helps keep magic 'special' and assures that only those with good RP skills can have it (although you've just seriously decreased the power of magic, and thus I don't think it should be quite so severely guarded any more). However, perhaps being able to learn some of the 'attendant skills' on your own would help decrease the feelings of utter uselessness of the characters until they can get a teacher... being able to study Ancient on your own, for example, instead of having to go through one of the teachers to get the 'textbooks'. Either be able to buy the textbooks yourself from some NPC, or have an NPC who will teach you after a sort of mini-quest (like the elven teacher... which I still can't find -.-).

Also, I'm sure some people (like me!) would be quite willing to play a 'throw away' character (after a sort of magic crash-course OOC) who is GM pushed to act *strictly* as a teacher, until there are more PC mages capable of teaching... at which point the 'throw aways' would be deleted.

Damn. That was a very informative mouthfull. Which by the way I agree with.

[Salathe]

And i'd like to see mage chars stop bitching about archers here.. You put low stats in const, its your problem if you die because of it. Next time dont put all your points in a few attributes.

And im against the idea of mages getting buffs that protect from attacks. Not unless fighters/archers get something to protect against magic.

[Lance Thunnigan]

And im against the idea of mages getting buffs that protect from attacks. Not unless fighters/archers get something to protect against magic.

Magic Resistance.

[Salathe]

and mages can get dodge. no need for a spell

[Lance Thunnigan]

What's the use in having magic if there is no spell that cannot protect you!?

[Salathe]

to attack with magical powers

[Samantha Meryadeles]

being able to study Ancient on your own, for example, instead of having to go through one of the teachers to get the 'textbooks'. Either be able to buy the textbooks yourself from some NPC, or have an NPC who will teach you after a sort of mini-quest (like the elven teacher... which I still can't find -.-).

Than soon everyone will be able to speak ancient. the language of magic and the gods. the long forgotten language that gets teached just in a circle of chosen. mages and other mystic peoples.

[Lance Thunnigan]

Whatever. Stop moaning. Mages actually have to work harder and longer to become good in what they chose to do, perform magic. Fighters learn by hack 'n slash, have magic resistance, armour and shields. I don't really think you have a reason to gripe.

[Nalzaxx]

Not all mages are aggressive. Infact it would be quite welcome to be able to be a mage that can be passive and merely defend themselves with protection spells.

[Caldrion Sternenglanz]

Lance is right.

and. If you have a warrior on your side, he cant protect you from arrows until we have a skill named PROTECTING.

[Samantha Meryadeles]

A mage getting dodge is doing powergaming. since it means he goes fighting.


And just powergamer can get dodge right now. an other character was fighting monsters in light leather armor, using daggers and having 16 agility, dex and 19 perception. the char reached over 85 % slashing and parry, but just 3 % dodging. so stop saying someone can get dodge, thats for powergamers who know how. like fighting flys for hours and hours

[Lance Thunnigan]

Not all mages are aggressive. Infact it would be quite welcome to be able to be a mage that can be passive and merely defend themselves with protection spells.

Hell, when you're being attacked, you'd stand there and defend yourself for hours without relieving yourself of the enemy?