Magic Discussion

[Adano Eles]

You know, nobody except you who discuss here ever reads this...
There are some changes planned to magic as well as to fighting.

[Arameh]

You know, nobody except you who discuss here ever reads this...
There are some changes planned to magic as well as to fighting.

Nice, feeling like naming any?

[Athian]

i agree. my character gives little to no chance to a warrior. one character out of a game of hundreds if not thousands. i don't see why this is still about me. or why i have to be defeatable by a warrior.

[Adano Eles]

We talked about some things at the RL-meeting, but I don't know much more.
More powerful spells will get more risky for the mage. That I can tell.

[Retlak]

Athian we are not still talking about you, stop it.

[Taylor]

Seems Athian obviously does not understand. Enough said.

[Arameh]

i agree. my character gives little to no chance to a warrior. one character out of a game of hundreds if not thousands. i don't see why this is still about me. or why i have to be defeatable by a warrior.

Hmm ok, but please stops telling things like little to no and just say none, if you can use magic at least in an average way NO fighter can have a chance, just wanted to make it clear....

[Jeremy Gems Willowbrook]

Pick your fight, pick your moment, use tactics. No mage is invincible. 2 good fighters and 2 good, smart players and any mage is toast. Just dont take them on on their own terms.

[Athian]

The "personnal" attack I made on him were after he did the same to me, only. I do that ONLY when I get done the same. Repeatative?! Yeah cause everyone fricking ingnore them , I will stop repeating when he stops ignoring them. And there is no ' Your characters better than mine ' argument, its ' your chararacter gives no chance to any warrior '.

this is what i was answering to if you need to know.

[Arameh]

Pick your fight, pick your moment, use tactics. No mage is invincible. 2 good fighters and 2 good, smart players and any mage is toast. Just dont take them on on their own terms.

Im talking of warlocks -.-

[Adano Eles]

Warlocks need to train two different kinds of skills and need to have attributes neither for mages nor for warriors. My experience with such characters is that they were rather too weak then too strong, compared with "pure" mages and fighters.

[Arameh]

Warlocks need to train two different kinds of skills and need to have attributes neither for mages nor for warriors. My experience with such characters is that they were rather too weak then too strong, compared with "pure" mages and fighters.

Im not sure them agaisnt mages, I guess they would do just ok, but agaisnt fighters its"forget it".

[Athian]

thats a good point. halfers don't have it easy. i've been player this character for about three years mine you, before and after client changes, by now he's of course though as hell, but that takes alot of time, and knowledge about, tactics weapons, armors and so on, it's more rp and knowledge then power. i'm sure Ath's students will have there fair share of issues.

as to magic changing. when you say powerful spells are we talking spells like KEL HEPT QWAN or spells like the huge storm and firecircle spells? power can be relitive.

[Garett Gwenour]

*pats Arameh's shoulder* its okay my french canadian friend, save what pride you have left and wait for the huge flame way arguement when we conquer silverbrand...

[Arameh]

loool, anyways. When more peoples sees what I mean about magic we will see

[Miklorius]

We talked about some things at the RL-meeting, but I don't know much more.
More powerful spells will get more risky for the mage. That I can tell.

Sounds interesting! That reminds me on the Shadowrun's magic system where stronng spells could kill the mage himself...

[Cassandra Fjurin]

My thoughts of magic and magicans. I think they should be really powerful but alone or in close combat they are lost. They should need protection to act as powerful chars.

The way to reach that goal is casting time. Really powerfull spells "Kill all enemys which i don't like on the map" spells should be possible. But currently they are unfair Because, you can cast them as a machine gun spell. And nobody can prevent that really. But if you have casting time, say we 5 seconds for such powerful spells. The other side has a chance to hold you from this actions. It will be fairer.
easier spells will have less time to cast. Or cant be aborted so easy. If you can concentrate enough some good mages can cast if they are attacked too, it depends on the dificultness of the spell and the skill of the caster.

In my eyes this is fair enough. Mages are with this system not overpowered and nobody cant do something against them, but they are really strong, but lost without warriors arround them wo prevent them from beeing attacked or otherwise distracted.

[Samantha Meryadeles]

My thoughts of magic and magicans. I think they should be really powerful but alone or in close combat they are lost. They should need protection to act as powerful chars.


The way to reach that goal is casting time. Really powerfull spells "Kill all enemys which i don't like on the map" spells should be possible. But currently they are unfair Because, you can cast them as a machine gun spell. And nobody can prevent that really. But if you have casting time, say we 5 seconds for such powerful spells. The other side has a chance to hold you from this actions. It will be fairer.

I fear that is not possible. And I will explain why.

The massiv destruction spells like the area spells of commotio and the flamewalls and circles are just than usefull when you can cast them on a group of enemys where are NO of your friends, and when that group of enemys is far enough away from you. But if you need now 5 seconds between targeting and having the spell casted, the spells will become completly useless. more than they are now.

Reason: If you need 5 seconds the enemys will be in that time already by you, and hitting you. The spell would hit the enemys, and you and your friends. Or you are dead before you are able to cast the spell.

Example 1: Monsters will immediately ran at you. Quicker than you can cast the spell. A warrior to your protection is useless, since the warrior would be hit too from the spell. Spell = useless

Example 2: Player chars will ran immediately at you and kill you. Warriors protecting you are not usefull, since an enemy can easily walk around the warrior protecting you and stand beside you, striking. Or an archer shoots two times and you are dead, since you need much longer for the spell than the archer to shoot.

Even now the area spells are useless. The only times you can really cast them is killing pigs. Monsters are too quick by you as that you can cast the spell. In the time you are opening the book, clicking the spell and targeting the monsters it is already beside you and hitting you. Now the spell would kill you too.
If you are not alone you cant cast them because your friend would be dead too. The friend may block the monster away, but the spell would hit now monsters AND friend.

the only time i may use a area spell is in surprise. A group of possible enemys stand infront of me, and talking. not walking at you. Just than, when you cast the spell before they run at you, means cast it in surprise without warning, you can use the spell. If you have now 5 seconds lag, even that won't be possible anymore

[Aristeaus]

#me does his mages are over powered dance

[Keikan Hiru]

What about not using "Spells of Massdestruction" ?

But everyone should get used to this concept, since I have the strong feeling that time will be introduced into every aspect of the game.
Not only magic, but also crafting, fighting and of course fishing.

[Athian]

technically PO Samantha is completely right about the area spells thing. it works on npc's if your hiding in a place where they can't reach you and just cast them out. but they'll never be effective against player characters unless you attack a group unannouced. and thats just being an asshole IMO.

the onyl useful one is the large storm spell which effects the area around the mage (tried using the small one but it damaged me as well) delay time on spells like these being pushed to 3-4 seconds (five is rediculous when matched to the hit rate of some of the bigger weapons, mages can doubtfully last three) does sound like a good idea, since area spells in the Commotio class and Fire circle spells are hardly used to begin with. singular and line spells i think should be left alone. especially those that aren't used for attacking. i.e. group healing, group anti poisoning, area Tah spells etc.

[Keikan Hiru]

Never knew our players, specialy these of our few mages, are that uncreative.

You only hear that there might be a 5 second delay for a "Doomsday-Spell" (and I mean it that way) and you get all defensive.

You can not even remotely imagine a situation of group fighting where area spells get effecive, you cannot imagine that you do not have the all-propose-spell.
You can not imagine that mage characters have weaknesses, especialy alone on open field.

You can not imagine how useful 'Delay' functions are for the game, also for your counterpart the archer, where they suddenly need time to aim before they can shoot. For the fighter, suddenly feeling dizzy after being hit by something blunt.


I am disapoined of you, truely.
Finaly get away from this "oh god they are going to cut my characters power attitude"!

Edit:
To explain what I could mean with "Doomday-Spell":

With a preperation time / cast delay one could even think about adding a instant-kill-spell at the high end of the magic.
The drawbacks of this spell would be that it has a high preperation time, and is easily to disturb. So get your buddys to defend your sissy asses and then kill off the monsters with a snip of your fingers.

[Ghorn]

Keikan, sorry, but I fear you have no clue about what you are writing that bitchy like.

come, please enlighten us. Tell us that creative use of that spells. Tell us more. Show us what you may find.

Can you even do that? Or can you just bitch at us without giving examples and using wrong presumptions? Since that:

You can not imagine that mage characters have weaknesses, especialy alone on open field.

Is not true and we never wrote about that.

I am open to YOUR ideas

With a preperation time / cast delay one could even think about adding a instant-kill-spell at the high end of the magic.
The drawbacks of this spell would be that it has a high preperation time, and is easily to disturb. So get your buddys to defend your sissy asses and then kill off the monsters with a snip of your fingers.

Keikan, you understood not a little bit what we were wroting before. Not a bit. Maybe you read again what I wrote about warriors running past your "defense" and killing you, and that spells are not usable as long as you hit yourself and your friends wiith it, and the only situation that may not happen is it to be alone and surprise your enemy with the spell. We don't speak of possible future spells, we speak about the current area spells which should get a 5 second penalty. We speak about the current magic.

[Athian]

Never knew our players, specialy these of our few mages, are that uncreative.

You only hear that there might be a 5 second delay for a "Doomsday-Spell" (and I mean it that way) and you get all defensive.

You can not even remotely imagine a situation of group fighting where area spells get effecive, you cannot imagine that you do not have the all-propose-spell.
You can not imagine that mage characters have weaknesses, especialy alone on open field.

You can not imagine how useful 'Delay' functions are for the game, also for your counterpart the archer, where they suddenly need time to aim before they can shoot. For the fighter, suddenly feeling dizzy after being hit by something blunt.


I am disapoined of you, truely.
Finaly get away from this "oh god they are going to cut my characters power attitude"!

Edit:
To explain what I could mean with "Doomday-Spell":

With a preperation time / cast delay one could even think about adding a instant-kill-spell at the high end of the magic.
The drawbacks of this spell would be that it has a high preperation time, and is easily to disturb. So get your buddys to defend your sissy asses and then kill off the monsters with a snip of your fingers.

im really glad your tossed in the little edit right there. because i dont' think i said anything unreasonable in my upper post now did i? as said a thousand times before things that effect mages dont' effect my character in the same way so excuse me for giving critism, i'm obvisously trying to save my own ass

instant kill spells and the like. are you crazy? there should be no such thing as that kind of spell unless it failed almost all the time or was easily resisted by player characters. thats not a kind of power i'd put in the hands of your average player even if it took ten seconds to cast. i'll say again. delay on offensive area spells wouldn't be bad at all. and if you'd like proof of the fact that there mostly useless npc wise, we can always test it out, i'm happy to help

[Keikan Hiru]

Galim, maybe you should read what Cass said in the beginning, and then start acting bitchy.

Let me sum it up for you again. (Feels like I am teaching a first grade class here)

1. Really powerfull spells "Kill all enemys which i don't like on the map" spells should be possible.
2. But currently they are unfair.
3. But if you have casting time, say we 5 seconds for such powerful spells.
4. It will be fairer.

Now get lost until you start using the brain you have!

[Ghorn]

1. Really powerfull spells "Kill all enemys which i don't like on the map" spells should be possible.
2. But currently they are unfair.
3. But if you have casting time, say we 5 seconds for such powerful spells.
4. It will be fairer.

Now get lost until you start using the brain you have!

Now I have to teach you like a first grade one.

Cassandra meant also the current area spells with the "killing all enemys". the once were you damage everything in a target area. "Should be possible" dont just have to mean in future, but also now regarding that some peoples want existing spells to be weakend or took out of game.

A spell that kills everything on the map would kill also the peoples who defens you while you cast the spell. That it would just not do if you target every single enemy one after the other. That alone would take more time than 5 seconds.

[Arameh]

I dont think there should be any spell killing someone instantly, whatever if it takes one minute to cast. Anyways, its true that PO mages dosent want mages to have any weaknesses. I mean, we can hit them with a big war hammer and they dont even get stalled, while the one hitting is stalled, 5 seconds I think. And now they should be able to cast mega spells that hits lots of characters, one after the others? This really gets ridiculous.

[Miklorius]

Mmhh, what is with a delay/magic lock after using a big spell?

[Nalzaxx]

I personally would love delays in casting time.

However of course only if it had some cool preparation graphic to go with it

I think it adds another sense of realism to casting (in a sense) as no longer are we just popping huge storms and massive clouds of flame from thin air, but rather using time and concentration to bring these things into effect.

A doomsday spell does sound applicable, assuming of course it can be well balanced. Perhaps some form of penalty to the mage (Full mana and food loss ala exhaustion) would prevent abuse of it.

However Im not even going to touch on Galim's argument as I don't particularly want to be char grilled.

I think though, I would like to see some funky protection spells beforehand though

Keep up the good work whatever you decide.

[Samantha Meryadeles]

Not every sense of realism brings game fun or is good for the game. We all should not forget that.