Suggestion about item breakage

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:53 am

In my opinion, the breaking of weapons and armor should be scrapped. It hinders technical character development - why? Because a character is trying to save up copper and silver to buy better items, but this can't be done because he has to pay to maintain or buy new equipment of a lesser grade.

Personally, I've gone through two rapiers and several brand spanking new helmets. I'd like for my character to buy a better weapon and armor combination, but he can't because killing monsters and selling their items isn't profitable enough to do so. Anybody else have this problem?

There are some characters who manage to get some pretty nice armor, only under the condition that they take up a second job such as mining and smithing. But, doesn't this run counterintuitive to the idea that a character shouldn't be a jack of all trades? I think so. And my characters aren't laborers, they're meant to be killers.

This isn't to say that item breakage should never be implemented...I'm just saying that the staff of Illarion should focus more on making the game addictive, and when it has a bigger player base (much bigger than the 1-20 players at a time), then realism should be worried about.

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:57 am

I don't think it should be scrapped entirely. There would BE no economy if they didn't break eventually.

I *do*, however, think they should be alittle more sturdy. Take a bit longer to wear down/break, yanno?

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:00 am

You were here before breaking was introduced. You must know how bad it was.

Irania · Post by **Irania** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:02 am

He is very right though. It is not all that addicting. I used to play so much more than I do now because it was a doorway out of reality and I enjoyed it. Nowadays I hardly ever go in and do anything other than sit there. I have tried to create a fighter but have failed due to the fact that the weapons break and I run out of coppers constantly buying new ones. Why should my fighter have to be a tailor or a carpenter to earn extra coins? I do not agree with the idea of breakage because it is a game and too much reality takes away from the magic.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:05 am

I thought it was pretty alright "back then." Miners and smithys were still in business.

The advantage that smiths and armor makers have is that they're already able to make items that are not sold in shops, (better equipment) as it is right now. So they'd still be in the job if item breakage was no longer around.

However, the item breakage is only a pain in the butt right now because it literally costs an infinite but steady amount of copper just to keep your equipment up. Where's the fun in that?

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:06 am

I have a feeling of dejá vu.
Didn't we already have (plenty) of these discussion and wasn't always the outcome that as soon time permits the break-rate of weapons and armors will be reviewed ?

So, can't we just stop beating this topic?

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:06 am

but if you only need 1 set of armor, 1 weapon... ever... what will the smiths and tailors and carpenters do?

A balance needs to be struck. Right now, it defeinitely favors the crafters; things break far too easily, making it difficult to impossible for a new fighter to accomplish anything without a rich friend to supply them.

Hence why I said the sturdiness needs to be tweaked, so that it is fair to the fighters, but still provides a market for the craftsmen.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:07 am

@Keikan - But the suggestion isn't about the time it takes for items to break, the suggestion is to scrap it altogether because I think it's a bad idea.

Edit: @NirAnte - As I already mentioned, crafters have the ability to make stuff that isn't available in the shops. That's a good reason for them to be around, to make "customized" equipment for tuff guys who can afford it.

But right now, it's too challenging without taking up another skill that doesn't suit the character (like mining).

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:08 am

Yes, I realized that. And I countered it with my own thoughts on the matter.

Irania · Post by **Irania** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:10 am

Even if it is 'scraped' there will always be new people to sell wares to because there are new people comnig to Gobaith all the time.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:10 am

Bloodhearte wrote:@Keikan - But the suggestion isn't about the time it takes for items to break, the suggestion is to scrap it altogether because I think it's a bad idea.

That's simply not going to happen.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:12 am

Why not? It doesn't seem to be working too well, and never has since its implementation. I mean, two warhammers to down a couple of monsters? Good grief. I still hold field gear today that works fine, even when I drug it through mud and barbed wire over a year ago.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:13 am

See, your field gears breaking rate is balanced, so will be ours.

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:17 am

Some of that is based on your attributes. Maggie can use a single good-quality staff through at *least* six or seven trips to the crypt, killing 40-60 mummies per trip, and generally a handful of skeletons, too.

Irania · Post by **Irania** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:18 am

Yet in the mean time things are at a complete standstill. Boring.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:19 am

The point to referring to the field gear was to illustrate that although I've taken it through a bunch of unfavorable conditions, it works and even looks pretty okay. And that was a relatively long time ago.

Not only do I disagree with the items balance in the game (breaks too easily and too quickly), but I doubt most people like going to the shop to buy the same equipment over...and over again when they want something a little more upgraded.

Edit: @NirAntae - If it's true that item breakage is somewhat based on attributes, that makes it a worse idea. Because attributes can't be changed, so some characters are doomed to a cycle of using and buying and probably never upgrading their items. One of my characters, Delanroth, has a pretty nice and balanced set of attributes...yet it seems like he has to go through items like a pack rat just to keep going.

Irania · Post by **Irania** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:21 am

It can't be based on attributes and I know that for a fact.

My character who will remain nameless has more than what each attribute allows and when she was hit by a few wasps, her crossbow broke and she only used it to shoot three arrows.

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:28 am

Is her strength signifigantly higher than her dexterity?

Irania · Post by **Irania** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:30 am

Yes, but the point I was trying to make is that she was not using the weapon at the time so there really should have been no breakage at all.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:32 am

It's a good question to ask if you're trying to help Irania on her problem with the item breakage, but that's not the point. I already mentioned how anything economical based on attribute distribution is a bad idea.

Can somebody please explain to me how the game is any more fun with this item breakage? It's just annoying, that's all.

Errian Abêth · Post by **Errian Abêth** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:05 am

Can somebody please explain to me how the game is any more fun with this item breakage? It's just annoying, that's all.

It was implemented so that merchants and producers have more customers. In the time before item breakage, a character needed one set of equipment. That became somehow better when people lost their stuff while dying (which happened far more often in the old times

)

Mostly this is a thing of reality and to make the producers happy. The question of fun is another. I believe characters who are producers theirselves or play often will manage to earn enough money to buy new equipment over and over, people who don't have time all day and only crawl in some dungeons may not.

I believe the whole idea is not bad, but (even if this was said a hundret times) the whole breakage could be slower.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:16 am

^ Good explanation. Any more input?

I always thought the point of Illarion was to be a game, and games are made to be fun, right? It seems as if the implementation of this item breakage thing hasn't helped.

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:19 am

It is more a conflict of funs ....

For you, it isn't fun that fighting items break so fast ... for a craftsman without breaking it isn't fun, that he can't sell equipment, because everyone has its things.

The only way is to adjust rates of breaking, so that both can live with it.
And that is, what Keikan said, needs time which is available, when more important things are solved (like to find the reason for the server crashes).

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:20 am

You maybe want to take a look from another point of view.

You point is:
I am a fighter. My weapon/armor breaks. I have no fun.

My point is:
I am a merchant. I have a new customer who buys my stuff. I have fun.

Although a large portion of Illarion is made arround fighting and killing stuff, not everything is.

Edit:
Looks like Aragon was a tad faster than me.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:44 am

The only "career" blacksmiths I know are either fighters on the side, or just doing it for monetary gain. Either way, they usually sell their wares to the NPC merchants because it's a much faster and simpler way to make a profit.

We don't have enough players to support a bustling economy where a merchant can actually enjoy selling his wares. Why can't that be a consideration after the game gets bigger?

Runescape, while not a role playing game for example, started out as something that's entirely NPC driven and revolved around fighting. Now there's literally thousands of players, and as those numbers came, things have been "tweaked" a little bit to make it more interesting. I think Illarion would be better off like that.

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:51 am

Perhaps we should have something called a compromise.

Perhaps it should be made so that weapons do not break, but lose quality AFTER they lose durability. So for every point of durability lost, it's quite possible that a point of quality is also lost. When durability runs all the way down, the weapon doesn't break, but is set to the lowest quality. This would make weapons degrade slower, and still be sort of usable, but nothing compared to a new item. That way fighters get to use their weapon for longer, and use a crappy weapon that does little to no damage if needed, but there is still great demand for new items.

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:57 am

*High fives Dónal*

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:17 pm

Although I'm still stuck on my own idea, that's a pretty good one Donal.

Post by **Nitram** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:54 pm

May a other solution is to introduce a way, to repair items.

Nitram

martin · Post by **martin** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:11 pm

lim [t -> infinity] a*t -> infinity for all a>0.

Martin