Magic Discussion

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:36 pm

Athian wrote:personally it's not a bad limitation i think. at least when it comes to actual objects and not constant objects like flowers and and patches of grass. it's an idea that makes sense to me.

I was not counteracting this right?

I used to be able to teleport through doors, so I reported it. And poof, the grand Nitram fixified it.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:39 pm

hehe i never managed to teleport through doors with any of my characters but through the corners in certain parts of walls, to get into the next room

.

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:43 pm

Let me elaborate on what I could do then. I could teleport into the Grey Rose castle, I could teleport into the buildings in Varshikar

, I could teleport through every closed door on the island basically. Pretty odd huh?

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:38 pm

whomever said a fire ball spell isn't strong..
Meriel hit stephen with one and it took half his health..
suck on that.

Djironnyma · Post by **Djironnyma** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:43 pm

Stephen hit dji with one hit and he lost his half health, you had ever hear crying me figthing system is to strong?

Meriel Pelith · Post by **Meriel Pelith** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:44 pm

Xalliar wrote:Meriel's magical skills are maxed, afaik.
How high are Stephen's?

you wanted to say that my magical attributes are maxed. Yes they are.
My skill itself not even as high as Silas. I simply have the better attributes.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:07 pm

yep. my fireball would only knock off a third of your life Stephen, and i'm probably 5 times more skilled in the same art.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:01 pm

Yeah, but think about it, you can easily cast 3 in 5 seconds, easily. As for the half healt thing, the difference is the mage can shoot from 12 tiles, the warrior one or 2. And no attributes really help agaisnt magic resistance, and the skill is bugged. The only defense (if this even is true), is the cursed shield, I would be curious to see that. Arameh has 8 intelligence, 8 willpower and 8 essence, he loses the SAME healt, as Retlak, Gort or anyone of the sort having 3 in theses attributes does. Fireballs can remove from 1/3 to 1/2 healt with a high skill. As for the pigs someone mentioned before, they die at the same speed as characters agaisnt magic.

Warlocks, lets take Athian as example, no warriors can possibly give him a hard time. How many hits would even Salathe, need to kill him, with his best weapons, I would guess around 20. How many fireballs to kill a warrior? Well 3, whats the thing here? No warriors could have a chance, even with every fighting skill maxed. It takes 5 seconds for the warrior to die, and about one minute for the warlock to, and the warrior could have trained twice as much.

As for parrying and dodging magic, it is a game, if we wanted it 100% realist, there woulnt be magic at all. Yeah in RL a fireball may blow up a shield, so? It aint fun here, at least not for the fighters. As some peoples said, we should be able to dodge, and parry magic, maybe as well make so the caster cant aim the other guy 100% of the time, its ridiculous as Grobby wrote. Not just some fricking shield that probably removes only 4% of magic damage, only used to make us shut up, im not even sure if its possible to make an item resistant to magic.

A mage, gains the ability to summon food, which he can sell and eat, he can make portals (money saving), he can make short teleportings, he needs to buy much less stuff than warriors, thus he can be lazy since he dosent need to work, I probably forgets loads, (I include warlocks in mage). And what is the use of a fighter? The use of a fighter is to be strong in a fight, thats is THE ONLY THING he gains for training, with the tons of money disadvantages going with it. I mean, the mage has EVERYTHING, cant we just make it so warriors, at least have a fricking chance in a battle, the only use they have? Just think about that.

Djironnyma · Post by **Djironnyma** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:07 pm

You realise that you write everytime the same?

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:10 pm

No, I have taken back some points but added a lot too.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:52 pm

Aramhe all your points are the same

Warlocks train twice as long as mages or fighters so stfu honestly. you don't know shit when it comes to that case.

as said the systems are fine, fighters shoudl stay as they are and magic caster should stay as they are. deal with it and stop griping. all you ever do is complain when you don't like something. and people do get annoyed with the redunancy of your complaints. because your aren't even trying to find a fix to any of these so called problems. your simple saying "i don't like this, change it."

as i said someone with your kind of access should have no problem learning some of the technical aspects of what your talking about. and actually make a decent proposal.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:58 pm

Gosh, they are not rare and strong, they are a bit uncommon and VERY VERY OVERPOWERED, just fucking read what I wrote god dammit. I gave examples and they arent wrong. Man I get tired to give fucking facts and get written crap after it (not aiming you in particular..). And no they arent "Uber warriors" anymore, they just get pwned by mages that trained less than a month. Anyways, since none of you can fucking admit anything because you like your super magic, then do so, but dont fricking tell that its me that's self centered.

Have fun

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:02 am

you are, deal with it.

your points are constantly the same. and frankly no ones going to change anything because you feel personally faulted. just get over it already. i see no reason for reducing magic. you'll just have to take your beating like a man Arameh.

what stephen said was a proposal for example, which can be worked with, what your saying is nothing but complaints, can'treally do much with that, to bad for you i guess.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:15 am

I complains because so that someone changes the system, then that someone needs to know that it needs to be changed. And no, I am not doing this for myself, you dont know a smile about me, youre just acting like a real asshole with me, ic and ooc, for I dont know what reason. I never fought any mage ig with any character, and hightly doubt I will.
I have made proposals that arent helping me at all, chasing system for example, if we added that system ig, Arameh would be as slow as a turtle,
its still myselft who had proposed it. It aint because I talk about something that could eventually help one of my character that it means everything I say is self centered. I find it odd, that you are telling me this.
The only thing you seem to want is that your character Athian keeps being the strongest and be scary to every characters, thats why you find every proposals about lowering something of magic, bad. Well if you wanted your character to pwn, well congratulations, you succeded, im sure youre very proud of it, now what about you just go fucking train him and leave me the smile alone? I was about to shut the smile up before you send this crap.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:17 am

From the looks of it, arameh cant handle that warriors arent the most powerful thing around, and thinks mages shgoul;d be weakened so he can have his way. I have seen warriors take mages down 1 on 1 before, and usually they do. Warlocks, though, probably can learn a bit too much. Athian what are your stats if you dont mind posting them?

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:19 am

falco1029 wrote:From the looks of it, arameh cant handle that warriors arent the most powerful thing around, and thinks mages shgoul;d be weakened so he can have his way. I have seen warriors take mages down 1 on 1 before, and usually they do. Warlocks, though, probably can learn a bit too much. Athian what are your stats if you dont mind posting them?

No he wont post his stats. And to me, mages should be stronger than warriors, just not 10x, so please fucking read before posting what you think im thinking? Thanks, now stop talking about me god.

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:20 am

How would you like to see a fight between a solitary mage, and a solitary fighter go if both were prepared? Who should win, or what should determine the victor?

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:23 am

Arameh_ wrote:
falco1029 wrote:From the looks of it, arameh cant handle that warriors arent the most powerful thing around, and thinks mages shgoul;d be weakened so he can have his way. I have seen warriors take mages down 1 on 1 before, and usually they do. Warlocks, though, probably can learn a bit too much. Athian what are your stats if you dont mind posting them?
No he wont post his stats. And to me, mages should be stronger than warriors, just not 10x, so please fucking read before posting what you think im thinking? Thanks, now stop talking about me god.

Well you didhnt type that way, and i didnt read every post, you ant expect me to, ir ead the last 2 or so. And dont speak for him, please.

Anywya, mages arent 10 times more powerful than warriors. THey're maybe twice as strong (from what i've seen, mind you), and that doesnt mean a mage wil ltake on 2 warriors, because the skills prevent that from happening (becaus eof back attacks and such). Also, if a mage isnt prepared to cast at you, you could probably kill them before they do.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:28 am

i won't post my stats. but i'll say for Ath in particular theres nothing over 14 all i have to say.

p.s. i have no characters in the game that interact with Arameh enough for you to make that statment. as to ooc, you want to hear it. yea i don't like you, in fact i really really don't like you, but i have not done anything in character that went out of my way to harass you in any way.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:31 am

Well, with nothign over 14 i think he seems to be able tcast quite powerfuls pells for a warlock, and that was maybe weeks ago when i ;last saw him casting. Well, i suppose i hagvent seen him fighting normally. But likely, warlocks are too powerful

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:36 am

nope thats a ton of practise in only one catagory, anything else you saw. ice flame fire flames and spread spells. were probably illusion spells. which look like what they are but have no power behind them.

and compared to mages no ath isn't that powerful. he can't teleport, make teleport gates, cast real flames, make large food items, move large objects, shall i continue?

edit:

instead of double posting. currently his strongest cast spell is his lightning bolt. and theres alot more powerful then that. and mind you even if he does a spell a full mages can do. it's at half power at most.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:34 am

Oh, it hoguht to make an illusion you needed to be able to cast the real one (that makes more sense to me). So yeah, I geuss they arent as overpowered as they like seeming. But seeming overpowered can be a good weapon

Aristeaus · Post by **Aristeaus** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:12 pm

Mages all need to be nerfed. And warriors need to be given fireball and stuff.

And on a slightly more serious note. I dont see how restricting the learning of magic is fair. In all accounts mages are just as powerfull as warriors. If this is the case why cant all those with the right attributes learn the basics of magery through various NPC actions as it has been in the past.

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:03 pm

To prevent the misuse of magic. It is seriously powerful now, and you can't have any powergamed noob running around using it.

Im sure with a little preparation a character with abilities like Samantha's is perfectly capable of destroying the entire town guard by herself.

So we trust in her not abusing those powers that we all still stand where we do. Give that amount of control to people who arn't responsible and we're all doomed.

Aristeaus · Post by **Aristeaus** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:14 pm

Arnt you lucky ive about 10 more minutes in my office.

Mmmk magic is seriously powerfull now?

Are not most the arguements in here placed by the mages, that mages are not more powerfull than warriors. In which case your point above is void. And if mages are to powerfull where they cant be trusted to be played by most of the player base. Do you not think it slightly unfair.

People will complain if a player has his/her stats raised correct?

So in allowing certain members and not others to play mages, with mages being that more powerfull should not the same complaint be held. in all sense it is the same in essence.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:21 pm

And also keep in my that the magic system was not created for just 3 to 8 people playing Illarion.
That would have been a giant waste of time.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:37 pm

Well, thats about what I meant in overall. Principally that we make magic accessible to more peoples, I never said n00bs, and also that we lower its strenght, or have certain ways to defend agaisnt it. Right now, there are very few mega powerful mage, and thats it, to me it does need changes. As I already, it is alright that a mage can be a bit stronger agaisnt a warrior of same skill, but now the difference is completely insane. Agaisnt a strong mage the warrior just get blown by a lightnight and then finished by the fireballs before he can say "wait!", like Athian said. There has been many propositions like to make a failing rate for offensive spells, be able to dodge and parry magic.

xBaurusx · Post by **xBaurusx** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:39 pm

Maybe we should delay the casting time to the striking time to let the defenders run... lol this is just a thought.

ex: ancient:********
...wait...wait....BAM

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:04 pm

magic again is being taught. though i do also feel it's very slow going. the only problem with npc's is the vending machine effect. because every friend of a mage who wants to learn magic is going to learn all the secrets of whatever mini quest is involved from that person and they won't even have to use there brains at all, just like in the old system thats the problem with npc based quests. we'll have a bunch of Kalom's running around just blasting everything.

again magic doesn't need to be lowered in power, people need to know more about it. as i sadi plenty of items out there that grant defense to magic, if people don't want to find out which or use them because there characters must always iuse a big two handed weapon instead of variations thats going to be why they suffer.

to the dodge, again as i also said the issue isn't with magic, it's to the wands which allow us to never miss, ever. but since theres not alot of pvp between fighters and mages i find no need to hurry it along when there others things being worked on.

and no Samantha as strong as she might be is defintaly not going to be taking on the the entire guard and winning. the guard would have to sand in a a box formation, move entirely together, and then once they did reach her she'd have to cast area spells on them and herself. thusly killing herself along with the guard. and that goes for any mage or caster of course.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:24 pm

. Not if she kills the guards one at once

Anyways, we cant know items that gives defense agaisnt magic, you said cursed shield, nice, but im not gonna ask a mage to cast fireballs on me trying different items, and how much theses items gives defense against it, must probably be too low to be any noticeable. If we talk about fireballs, maybe we must not lower their power, but we could make them take more mana, and be able to cast them only 3 seconds after the other. Machinegunning of fireballs aint so great.