Suggestion - Help

Daashi · Post by **Daashi** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:04 pm

My character was attacked by an elf and was crying out for help.

A dwarf noticed the confrontation and looked on, then I got an OOC message saying he doesn't speak english. And I couldn't speak german, so I couldn't plea for help in a language he understood.

Perhaps we should have something, a little note or something saying,
if you need help in fending off an attacker please type help in both english and german.
And then provide the word in question. For I am not the only one who cannot speak both language.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:17 pm

Could you explain what you are suggesting?

Are you really suggesting that, if you get attacked, the client displays the message:
"Type help in german and english!" ?

Don't you think your problem is easier to solve with either a dictionary and a few minutes time to write down some common words?
Or, if you prefer online things, Google Language Tool ?

Galahan · Post by **Galahan** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:23 pm

I couldn't understand what she wanted to do anyways

Galahan · Post by **Galahan** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:27 pm

If you need to shout help in german use this :

Hilfe

Gort Greegog · Post by **Gort Greegog** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:27 pm

Or just Rp you don't know the old language. That always works.

Daashi · Post by **Daashi** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:34 pm

On the manual.

Or on this board.

It really would have been useful to know what german for help is before my character has turned into a sobbing hysterical mess.

Which is why I'm not as good at explaining myself tonight.

*sigh* I think I'm developing MPS.

The situation was where I needed help but the only person around to help [well the only person around that wasn't attacking me] couldn't speak english, nor could I ask for help in german because I do not know the language.

Therefore he knew something was happening as I was shouting but had no idea what was going on or what I was shouting.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:38 pm

If you can't articulate yourself in such a situation then that's bad luck for your char. In RL you are just as equally screwed.
Also German players are not that stupid not to know what "Help!" means.
Even those with very little knowledge of the English language will understand some basic words. Just keep it simple.

Galahan · Post by **Galahan** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:40 pm

Use this is a japaniese guy attacks.

助け

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:41 pm

Since the Java-Client runs in windowed mode, you can have this page opened in your brower running in the background, if you need a quick (and dirty) translation.

http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en

I don't think we should turn our manual into a mini-dictionary, thats not what it is for, its a technical documentation.

Daashi · Post by **Daashi** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:45 pm

Adano Eles wrote:If you can't articulate yourself in such a situation then that's bad luck for your char. In RL you are just as equally screwed.
Also German players are not that stupid not to know what "Help!" means.
Even those with very little knowledge of the English language will understand some basic words. Just keep it simple.

I was shouting 'help' and 'help me'. And after about a couple of minutes of the dwarf just staring at my character I got a baddly written message that said something like 'I don't speak English'.

And I would like to think that he had no idea what was happening instead of knowing I needed help and walking away.

Alo in RL if someone is being threatened, body language is a give away. And body language is universal. So if you see someone being pinned againsts a wall and they're screaming and trying to get away it would matter if you didn't know the language that the person in question was screaming, because it would be fairly obvious what was happening.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:49 pm

Knowing what "help" means wouldn't change that. I'm pretty sure the player knew you needed help, he just didn't know what you needed help with.
Knowing what "help" means in German won't help you there at all. A complete lesson in German language would be more useful. And that's surely not going to be implemented into a technical documentation.

Daashi · Post by **Daashi** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:26 pm

How about this . . .

Say I am getting attacked by a mummy or a skeleton, I could ask for help. But then how do I know that those around have any understanding of the English language.

Frankly I have no idea what is being taught in schools in other countries, I don't know if they learn other languages and what thaose languages might be. And nor do I want to assume, that they can speak english or can understand english well enough to know that I want help.

And how do I know if they are good at learning languages, I took Japanese for 4 years and all I know how to say are 'Good Afternoon', 'How do you do?', 'Boy' and 'Fluro Pink'.

Jon Childs · Post by **Jon Childs** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:27 pm

Well, schools in england teach French and German I think...

But, It could have been easier if you would have said some more words, German is similer to English.

Daashi · Post by **Daashi** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:51 pm

I know the words for child, children, garden and the phrase 'good day'. In german.

And english isn't similar to german, english has some german words and phrases in it.

Markous · Post by **Markous** » Wed May 10, 2006 2:02 pm

English is quite similar to German, since English evolved out of the German language.

Concerning the Ingame happening: Players who can not speak english at all and don't even understand the basics of it are rare. Most players can speak english quite fairly.

Was just bad luck for your char.

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Wed May 10, 2006 6:59 pm

bad luck, doesn't need to be fixed. I said it once and I'll say it again, no matter what happens witht his game, "I'm not learning german." I would sooner quit Illarion

say he did understand help, what he going to do?maybey you need some help with your carpentry, ! doesn't explain much. how will he know that your being robbed?

Daashi · Post by **Daashi** » Wed May 10, 2006 7:46 pm

I wanted help because I was getting attacked, not robbed or anything else, I was being attacked.

Sylveria · Post by **Sylveria** » Thu May 11, 2006 1:45 am

My character Sylveria is completely mute. If you are really so desperate to find a solution, do what I do und just type "! ! !" . Can usually be understood (if you don't want to take so much trouble just to learn the word "Hilfe!" )

Jori · Post by **Jori** » Thu May 11, 2006 3:40 am

Ok I have a possible solution: Make a sticky thread on the forum that has a number of useful or common phrases in both english and german.
For example:

1. Help-Hilfe
2. German-Deutsch
3. .....etc.

I wouldnt be able to do it since I dont know german apart from a few random words but lots of players know both languages and people could just keep adding phrases they think are useful. It might become disorganized so a rule could be made that the phrase must be very common and useable so that it didnt overflow with random things like "I ate a loaf of bread today" or "He uprooted the little tree"

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Thu May 11, 2006 3:43 am

Markous wrote:English is quite similar to German, since English evolved out of the German language.

Concerning the Ingame happening: Players who can not speak english at all and don't even understand the basics of it are rare. Most players can speak english quite fairly.

Was just bad luck for your char.

English didnt so much evolve out of german as develop seperately from the same base language. Just saying

Rinya · Post by **Rinya** » Thu May 11, 2006 3:52 am

English is a germanic language. That is all.

Jori wrote:Ok I have a possible solution: Make a sticky thread on the forum that has a number of useful or common phrases in both english and german.
For example:

1. Help-Hilfe
2. German-Deutsch
3. .....etc.

I wouldnt be able to do it since I dont know german apart from a few random words but lots of players know both languages and people could just keep adding phrases they think are useful. It might become disorganized so a rule could be made that the phrase must be very common and useable so that it didnt overflow with random things like "I ate a loaf of bread today" or "He uprooted the little tree"

Yes, this has been suggested many, many, many, many times. Unfortunately none of the threads that suggested this idea were ever taken very far. You can find plenty of them with the forum's search function. I am not sure how useful each thread is.

Daashi · Post by **Daashi** » Thu May 11, 2006 7:22 am

Jori wrote:Ok I have a possible solution: Make a sticky thread on the forum that has a number of useful or common phrases in both english and german.
For example:

1. Help-Hilfe
2. German-Deutsch
3. .....etc.

I wouldnt be able to do it since I dont know german apart from a few random words but lots of players know both languages and people could just keep adding phrases they think are useful. It might become disorganized so a rule could be made that the phrase must be very common and useable so that it didnt overflow with random things like "I ate a loaf of bread today" or "He uprooted the little tree"

Jori

You read my mind. This is exactly what I was trying to say. If anyone who knows both english and german could do this. Please it would so help this absolute noob.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Thu May 11, 2006 8:18 am

Write some words in a translator, and hit translate. I remember I used to make alot more trades now that I could simply use the horribly incorrect grammar of "Du verkaufe eisen und kohl?" "Ich habe rustung, du braucht?" "Panzerplatten ist 250 geld" Simple words, welded together by the brains of the poor people who had to read it, but in the end I got my point across, and thats the whole idea.

Daashi · Post by **Daashi** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:40 pm

Gro'bul wrote:Write some words in a translator, and hit translate. I remember I used to make alot more trades now that I could simply use the horribly incorrect grammar of "Du verkaufe eisen und kohl?" "Ich habe rustung, du braucht?" "Panzerplatten ist 250 geld" Simple words, welded together by the brains of the poor people who had to read it, but in the end I got my point across, and thats the whole idea.

First of all, even the best online translaters have a nasty habit of being incorrect, and/or give you words that have totally different meanings than what you want to say. Many languages have words that may mean the same thing but it is the context that defines the true meaning.

For example, the Japanese language doesn't have "good day", it has words that mean "good morning", "good afternoon", "good evening", "good early morning" and 2 different words that mean "good night". Every single one of these have been translated to "hello", when you easily be using the wrong one, because the context is wrong.

Delakaniam · Post by **Delakaniam** » Thu May 11, 2006 3:06 pm

http://dict.leo.org

Best German/English translation site on the web, hands down.