My Day

[Arkadia Misella]

This is how my evneing ended.

A lizard under the number 36******* met my Orcess.

After my Orcess greeted him he simply walked right passed her. she followed him and kept saying hello. He finally came to a resting spot and lit fires around himself and greeted my Orcess. Insulted my Orcess demanded he never ignore her like that again. He simply told her (in very good english) that he only spoke the old language. The Orcess did not believe this for one moment and was insulted once more. She stuck him once with her axe as a warning shot and he ran through the flames. She gave chase as she found it amusing.

This is where it got really stupid. Instead of the lizard truly running away, all the did was run straight to the depot in the Seahorse Inn. After I shoved him back from it he simply kept walking right back up to it even though I was swinging an axe at him. This went on for about 5 minutes when he decided to run around the table to buy himself some time. In the end he ran out of the Inn and ran straight to the market (stopping along the way to pick up all the ash one by one from his fires from earlier) and went straight for the depot again. All the while I am waking him with my axe and he is smacking me with his hands. Eventually this "shove away from the depot and watch him walk right back up to it" game got really obnoxious so I stopped momentarily to write a !gm message with the happenings. In the time I had done so I approached the lizard again only to find out he had obviously put on armor and armed himself instantly. I then watched as my health bar sank like the Titanic. I was forced to retreat.

And as I made my escape he yelled a distinct "Bitch" at me.

Today was absoultely not fun. As a matter of fact, it was pretty damned stupid.

And even if the lizard's player does not know English.......He can at least say a hello when it is said to him. I always see this lizard in game and he does nothing but work, work, work. Never inteacts that I see. Just works.

I am getting tired of these players who are here only to work and not roleplay, and prove so when they end up in a RP situation.

And to end it all, my !gm's were never answered and the lizard is down in a mine mining his ass away as I type this. I guess not even 50 wacks in the back with an Orc axe will slow down a determined lizard who cares not for an ounce of roleplay.

[Arkadia Misella]

Oh. and I forgot to add this lizard I repoted just the other day for "throwing" 150 wool down the street so he wouldn;t have to carry it/couldn;t carry it.

Either the little talk they gave him didn't work or you GM's did not contact him.

[Garett Gwenour]

because your making a mountain out of a mole hill ? My character must say hello to your character or you'll attack him, i will remember to make sure to say hello to all characters of yours ? He cannot speak proper english, he told you that and you bothered him more ?
I would say YOU were in the wrong.

[Aristeaus]

I have to disagree.

The first part. No one's in the right/wrong it happens.

But the running back to a depot and getting armed whilst under attack, a big no no

[Arkadia Misella]

He told me in game in perfect English that he couldn;t speak my language. I'm sorry if my Orcess does not believe that. Later OOC he said his "English wasn't that good". I base my character actions by in game thoughts....and frankly my Orcess did not beleive a word he said. But regardless. Had he just run away I would not have pursued. Had he fought I would have off-clicked the attack and RP'ed it. Instead all he wanted was to arm himself to fight back, all while Im bashing him in the face with an axe and shoving him away from the depot. I must have pushed him away a good 50 times in total. It was rediculous.

And the fact that after all of that fighting and getting hit that many times he went back to work like nothing happened bothers me greatly.

If I get hit with an axe once, I don;t think I would be heading down to any mine to pick axe away at a giant rock.

[Arkadia Misella]

My character must say hello to your character or you'll attack him,

No. Just do not insult her. She does not take too highly to insults. She may be an Orc. She may be stupid, but she refuses to have her honor tarnished. And no She won't just attack instantly. I will always RP a way out of it. You had better just RP too or an attack is unavoidable.

He cannot speak proper english, he told you that and you bothered him more

He told me IC in perfect English and my character did not believe him.

i will remember to make sure to say hello to all characters of yours

By doing so you have offically announced you plan on mixing OOC knowledge with IC knowledge. I hope you are punished accordingly.

I would say YOU were in the wrong

How? Him ignoring all RP and only trying to desperately arm himself makes me the bad player? If someone yelling German at me begins attacking me, it gives me no right to bereak all RP rules to save my character's life. Hell, perhaps I could have been yelling in Orc at him. Would that be any better?

[Jeremy Gems Willowbrook]

Best advice...dont try to force a bad situation. If he doesnt want to rp or shows really bad rp - walk away. Call a gm or pm one later. But dont keep banging your head against a wall and making a bad situation worse.

[Retlak]

What you do is, !gm char ******* is not roleplaying respectfully.
or something.

[Dyluck]

I don't see a problem with the fight at the depot. Who can say the exact extent or impact of the orc's offenses on limiting the lizard's possible reactions, or what really happens during the "fight"? I would interepret the situation as him simply having fended off or doged most of your attacks (possibly being a better fighter than you) while he keeps trying to maneuver around you to pick up some kind of armament, which in his point of view may be his best strategy.

From a technical point of view you may have gotten "hits" on him, but who's to say what that really means IC? If IC injuries were really reflected accurately in impact by every single tehcnical "hit", how could any fight even last more then 3 hits by a sword or axe, or a single fireball? Everyone has different stats, and as long as a guy has some HP, he still has potential to fight back. Is the result of any fight predetermined after a certain amount of injury? Well that's what the whole health bar is for so that people don't have to argue over an arbitrary standard of how much injury a person can sustain. Ok, so you also pushed him a lot, and that's part of the fight, albeit 50 times is a lot. I'm not exactly sure what you expect that to mean though; that he won't get back up and try to fight or maneuver his way against you, even if that may be rather stubborn?

That being said, from your descriptions, it sounds like the guy probably wasn't really a roleplayer. But I don't find any wrong about his actual behavior during the fight or greeting in this particular case. People should just keep in mind that roleplaying doesn't mean that anything that moves must necessarily react to your advances or react in the same logic that you expect.

[Adano Eles]

It would be hard for anyone to put on armor while being shoved around by an orcess. Even if he'd rp'd to evade the orc mocking him that'd have needed at least a few words or one or two #me's.

[Dyluck]

Putting on a suit of armor on the spot right where he picked it up and right in front of an axe swinging orc, yes, extremely difficult.

Picking up a weapon or shield, very reasonable.


I really hate the game's culture on fighting these days. Instead of letting the technics of the game sort out the fight, there will always be ambiguities in everyone's own interpretation and they will force their own interpretations and imply the consequences of their actions on possible reactions of their opponents. Another day and people will be saying that before a fight starts everyone must #me their exact equipment, stats, and items currently in possession in order to avoid any argument of:

A: I hit you 10 times with my axe! You should be severly injured!
B: No I was wearing full armor and have high agility and defense!
A: Then you should be too heavy to jump diagonally!
B: I didn't jump, I just moved!
A: Yeah well my uber-enchanted axe of Irmorom would have cut your armor!
B: Yeah well I had my potion of uber-defense enchanment!
A: Well why didn't you #me it? Cuz I would have knocked that potion out of your hand!
B: I don't have time to #me it before I use it when my health bar is dropping like shiet!
A: Well too bad your RP sucks cuz you want to win instead of #me!
B: Yeah AS IF that #me was really the difference between Bad RP and instant RP Greatness!

[Markous]

If a rule was broken, please report it to a GM.

It is not really necessary to start a topic with the pure intention to yell about how stupid something was, when this matter could simply be solved in private.

Please consider this the next time.

[Misjbar]

One thing though, is that 150 wool thing pushing allowed then? I see it more often lately, be it with wool or coal or whatever, but it seems rather unreal and not allowed to me. Any statement on that?

[NirAntae]

Well, I can't comment on whether or not the bit with the wool is 'allowed' or not.

But I can and will comment on it being 'unreal'... I've *done* that. Granted, not for something I could have made two trips to carry... but when things you leave behind within a couple of minutes, I can see it, from a 'realistic' viewpoint.

But of course, there are more factors to be determined than 'realistic' when deciding if something isn't allowed.

[Arkadia Misella]

If a rule was broken, please report it to a GM.

!gm seemed to do nothing and the violation emails generally get no response back even if they are read and handled.

I also wanted to see the communities view on this. Whether they feel it was bad rp or not. As I see there are some varied views.

[Llama]

This lizard I have met occasionally.. i think its the same one. He doesn't respond when you talk to him... and claims not to speak english... So I think we can beleive that.

Pushing things on the floor is the equivalent of dragging a heavy sack i suppose, if you want to risk someone grabbing it and running... feel free.

[Misjbar]

If a rule was broken, please report it to a GM.

!gm seemed to do nothing and the violation emails generally get no response back even if they are read and handled.

I also wanted to see the communities view on this. Whether they feel it was bad rp or not. As I see there are some varied views.

!gm does not give you a message. Once you type it and press enter, it gets send, you just do not get a message of it.

[Fooser]

And as I made my escape he yelled a distinct "Bitch" at me.

It's funny how all the people who make this claim always have a decent vocabulary of things to cuss you out on, some similar things have happened to me in Illa and elsewhere.

[Rinya]

!gm seemed to do nothing and the violation emails generally get no response back even if they are read and handled.

I also wanted to see the communities view on this. Whether they feel it was bad rp or not. As I see there are some varied views.

!gm does not give you a message. Once you type it and press enter, it gets send, you just do not get a message of it.

Misjbar is right. It will not give you any kind of message to show that you have sent it, unforunately, but as long as there aren't really any typos in the "!gm" part of the message, it should successfully be sent to any GM characters who are online as well as the !gm message archive. I have not had access to Illarion for about three day, and have not even been able to check all of the !gm messages in that same amount of time. Whenever I am ingame, I answer all !gm calls immediately or ask another GM to take care of it if I am occupied.

You can include the character number/name in the !gm, and that will be investigated as well. If you don't feel that you can depend on that, please send a PM to your GM of choice. If you don't feel that you can depend on that, feel free to even contact by instant message. As said before, it will at least be investigated.

You can even do this right now.

[Arkadia Misella]

What you do is, !gm char ******* is not roleplaying respectfully.
or something.

If a rule was broken, please report it to a GM.

!gm does not give you a message. Once you type it and press enter, it gets send, you just do not get a message of it.

It will not give you any kind of message to show that you have sent it, unforunately, but as long as there aren't really any typos in the "!gm" part of the message, it should successfully be sent to any GM characters who are online as well as the !gm message archive. I have not had access to Illarion for about three day, and have not even been able to check all of the !gm messages in that same amount of time. Whenever I am ingame, I answer all !gm calls immediately or ask another GM to take care of it if I am occupied.

You can include the character number/name in the !gm, and that will be investigated as well. If you don't feel that you can depend on that, please send a PM to your GM of choice. If you don't feel that you can depend on that, feel free to even contact by instant message. As said before, it will at least be investigated.

Well, I am glad to see you all think I do not understand how the !gm function works. Thanks alot for your votes of confidence.

I am VERY AWARE that I will not get a message back from a GM after using the !gm function. What I meant was obviously my !gm messages went unanswered as the lizard was still running around working and nothing apparently happened.

I do not even expect a !gm message. It would be time consuming and a pain in the ass. However I do expect an answer when I write an email to the Violations account. If I can take the time the write an entire email with the sole purpose of correctly something that will in the end enrich the game enviorment, a simple "Thank you, we got your letter and are looking into it" response would be nice.

And by the way....the !gm message I wrote for a second time is what allowed the lizard to finally access his depot and fend me off. Got my ass kicked for trying to follow the rules.

I fully can understand someone grabbing a sword whilst being attacked. But putting on armor? Digging in a little magic box while getting attacked?

That is like being in the middle of a firefight in Iraq and walking out to an ATM, retrieving money, walking across the street to a vendar and buying 14 Abrahams tanks and crews, and then turning on the people shooting at you. It just does not make any sense.

[Arameh]

I agree with the part when he takes his armor, put it on etc from his depot. That aint RP at all, but well...next time youll know not to bother him

[Aurica Zaltana]

That is like being in the middle of a firefight in Iraq and calmly walking out to an ATM, retrieving money, walking across the street to a vendor and buying 14 Abrams tanks and crews, and then turning on the people shooting at you. It just does not make any sense.

Well, it makes sense (would you do it if you knew you could?)... but it isn't realistic. Relative realism is the point here. If he had had any kind of "realistic" (IG) reaction, such as complaining about the attack or trying to apologize, then I don't think there would've been a problem. According to Arkadia, there was no reaction. None.

Plus, I thought the rules and reasons for encumbering and requiring rest were in place to prevent powergaming. "Throwing" items along is a cheap and dishonorable way around it.

Finally, whether IG or OOC, one player calling another a bitch is neither necessary nor polite. Refusing any and all communication with a character, but taking the time to shout an insult, is highly irregular. No matter the circumstances, even if none of the other stuff had ever happened, this is inexcusable.

[Poots]

my thoughts:

her attacking the lizard is pretty wierd, but then again, she's rping an orc, so it makes sense to me.

everyone knows about the !gm thing, no need to explain it to anyone.

some of the people do speak in good english that they don't know it, they learn that one phrase perfectly, it makes sense, so I would have believed him, though he still shouldve said that instead of ignoring you at first. but if he called you a bitch, chances are he knows English.

him going to pick up ashes and get armour and stuff, is highly unrealistic. bad rp, and he seems like a good fighter, so he should know better. I hope this isn't what all the lizard bandits do.

orc: some people do know certain phrases perfectly.

orc: crappy rp, two thumbs down for you. I think he should be delt with by the gm's

[Dyluck]

I fully can understand someone grabbing a sword whilst being attacked. But putting on armor? Digging in a little magic box while getting attacked?

That is like being in the middle of a firefight in Iraq and walking out to an ATM, retrieving money, walking across the street to a vendar and buying 14 Abrahams tanks and crews, and then turning on the people shooting at you. It just does not make any sense.

Putting on body armor while being swinged at with a sword, yes unfeasible. But if you did let up your IC attack momentarily to OOC type the !gm then he had a little more IC time to do his thing, and Illarion time supposedly goes 3 to 4 times faster so he MAYBE could have put on some kind of light armor. Even with that argument aside for a moment, how do you know he put on armor and didn't just grab a sword and shield though? Sword and shield would make a huge defensive difference compared to bare hands already. How do you know he had to "dig" and that his sword wasn't just lying on the top of his belongings?

See, I'm not trying to defend him and I would believe that he probably DID put on armor and had to dig his depot in all probability. But the point I'm trying to make is that there are always some factors that you may not always be able to see and be able to judge the entire situation's actual "logic" or "realism". I just don't think you should be so frustrated over a situation that can still be very reasonably interpreted from your character's point of view in the context of the Illarion world. The player may not have had any RP or logical "intentions" when he acted, but that doesn't mean his character's resulting "actions" have to be automatically viewed with the worse possible RP or logic implications. I'm saying, don't just condemn as illogical the general sequence/action itself of maneuvering to a box and trying to pull out an item while struggling with an enemy.

[Rinya]

I apologize.

[paul laffing]

Eventually this "shove away from the depot and watch him walk right back up to it" game got really obnoxious so I stopped momentarily to write a !gm message with the happenings. In the time I had done so I approached the lizard again only to find out he had obviously put on armor and armed himself instantly. I then watched as my health bar sank like the Titanic. I was forced to retreat.

So there was a period of time between you attacking him and him putting on his armor. He didn't do it midfight.

I really don't see what the problem is. Arkadia is just kind of looking for attention here. So you lost a fight ingame and now you're flipping a bitch because he doesn't roleplay how you want him too? Attention everyone, you must all act the same and get rid of all variety from this game.

And arkadia wants to be a moderator...

[Aurica Zaltana]

!gm messages are techincally OOC, are they?

It is my understanding that OOC doesn't influence anything IG. Pausing to write a !gm wouldn't affect the battle at all. RPing that you are tired and are trying to catch your breath, IMO, would constitute an IG break in the battle.

No RP was made to indicate a break in the action. He took advantage of the time needed to report him to GM, and did not act in a relatively realistic manner.

Attention everyone, you must all act the same and get rid of all variety from this game.

Not anywhere even close to the point--Attention everyone, you should all act how your character would act in the appropriate situation. If a character gets hit in the head 15 times with an axe, they're not going to walk around collecting ash and mining. They're going to rest, eat something, complain about it in a manner consistent with their character's personality, and get on with life after a time has passed.

If this seems unfair, ask someone (in real life) to run you over with a car, then see if you can go dig a ditch. I will bet you 100 euro you can't dig more than 30 meters and act as though nothing is happening.

And Arkadia wants to be a moderator...

I see no problem with this. An injustice occurred, and she took the appropriate measures. When these seemed to not work, she took more drastic ones. Even though she is receiving verbal attacks from nearly everyone on this thread, she is holding her ground, unswayed by popular opinion.

Admirable traits for a moderator, if you ask me.

[Markous]

Everything said.

Arkadia now knows how to handle such situations in future.

Topic closed.