Suggestions for thing

[falco1029]

Hey, Im pretty sure Nitram has no problem with me telling you what Im working on (and if he does im sure ill hear about it ), and i figured one person's ideas wouldnt work best anyway.

Bottom line is im working on a lockpicking system (or should say, will be, since Nitram needs to send me a couple things first, and he's obviously very busy), and I want some of you other players' ideas. See, unlike Nitram, I like to hear what you have to say *ducks as nitram throws an outdated pc at him* ok ok just kidding .


Anyway, here's what I have so far:

-Lockpicking will be done with puncture weapons. If they're ever added, an actual lockpick would of course work better
-The skill will be based on perception, intelligence, and of course, dexterity
-A grandmaster of the skill with 18 of all the major attributes will have about a 1/3 chance of opening a lock. In other words, it wont be easy
-There will be a time of about 5 minutes between when you can attempt to pick locks. If you try before that time, you'll get a message sayign you cant.
-If you have a low dexterity, you can damage or break your weapon if you fail the pick


Im also considering an option of "effort", where if you increase your counter before picking, you'll be more likely to, but you'l lalso be much more likely to damage your weapon, and anything above 1 allows you to damage it even if you succeed the pick. I want some feedback on whether this should be done or not. Oh yeah, your perception will decide how high the counter can go (direct 1:1 ratio).


Alright, suggestions, questions, comments, concerns, insults (please no )?

[Azuros]

I kinda like the idea...it would help add in another aspect of being a thief because you can break into someone's house and such, however I have not seen that many locked doors, i believe ive seen 2 in Trollsbane (thasts what ive seen) and 1 in Varshikar. SO will they add in more buildings with locks or how will it be?

[falco1029]

Almost every door has a key, they just arent locked often. And one obvious use is breaking fellow crooks out of jail. Would encourage roleplay since you'd want guards to be around more, as there usually were (and are), guarding prison cells

[Arameh]

Well, your 5 minutes waiting would be unrealistic, and i think peoples can already escape from jail easy enought. I dont think it would be really worth implementing this yet, since there is no house to rob, and i think there are more important things to work on before.

[Avareniah]

But Ules isn't working on those other things. He is (or is going to be) working on this. And he wants suggestions. Not to be discouraged.

And the 5 minutes, is, of course, to counteract powergaming as it were.

[Arameh]

Why dont we just add 5 minutes to magic casting, fighting, crafting and..doing music? It would preven powergaming! I mean i think we should keep to logical things. Now if peoples dosent adress to me anymore, then im finished posting in this topic, be happy .

[falco1029]

Why dont we just add 5 minutes to magic casting, fighting, crafting and..doing music? It would preven powergaming! I mean i think we should keep to logical things. Now if peoples dosent adress to me anymore, then im finished posting in this topic, be happy .

Its not for powergaming actually, it's so its harder for you to pick locks. If you could just continually sahift click them, then no matter what your skill itd open soon (unless you ran out of puncture weapons, but still)

And as Avareniah said, im not working on other stuff. I work on what i damn well want to work on. And i want to work on a lockpicking system


EDIT: and also, as for house,s anyone with the money can contact gm's, but they usuallly charge a crapload for it, at least this is what ive heard. I think a few people own houses....

[Arameh]

Oh you would want to make it yourself, alright then.

[Poots]

interesting, never knew you were a programmer. kinda cool we have someone working on this cool, yet extremely hard subject.

what do I think......well, on the top of my head, I understand about powergaming and unlimited tries an everything, but 5 minutes? how would anyone become even close to a grandmaster? is there another way besides a time limit? puncture weapon is a good idea though. I don't quite get the counter thing though, could you explain more? thanks for working on this.

[falco1029]

interesting, never knew you were a programmer. kinda cool we have someone working on this cool, yet extremely hard subject.

what do I think......well, on the top of my head, I understand about powergaming and unlimited tries an everything, but 5 minutes? how would anyone become even close to a grandmaster? is there another way besides a time limit? puncture weapon is a good idea though. I don't quite get the counter thing though, could you explain more? thanks for working on this.

I just started workign with illarion, and im definitely no programming expert . Anyway, as for the 5 minute thing, i think it'd probably be the best thing, and i dont exactly WANT people to all become master lockpicks. I can probably make it less time, maybe 2 or 3 minutes, but there definitely needs to be a time limit there.

For the counter thing its simple, the higher the number on your counter, the higher your lockpicking chance, and the higher the chance that your weapon breaks or gets damaged. The counter's number is also limited bv your perception. k?

[Poots]

is it possible to damage a weapon? and I know you don't want poeple to be masters, I'm saying it has to be humanly possible, and if you only get to try once every five minutes, which no one is going to try every single five minutes, you'll never get decent. I suggest making it 2 or 3 minutes at least, and then making it so the levels go up faster than other skills, since you don't have many chances to practice. not super uber fast, just faster than most skills.

would intelligence give you a better chance of success?

maybey dextarity= chance of success

intelligance= counter thing up

perception= how much damage

seems more logical to me.

putting the counter thing up should do more, since it relies on attributes. like for complete, out of porportion example,

counter on 2= 20% chance of success, 5% chance of breaking weapon.

so that putting your counter up would be better, so it would be good to have high perception or whatever. they way you had it, it wouldn't matter, all it means is do you want to pick the lock or do you want to save you dagger. my two cents.

[Durgin]

Instead addition to the break inbetween attemps, I would say that someone who is picking a lock shouldn't eb able to do anything else. Maybe the first 30 second to a minute of that time they are sitting there picking the lock. This way if they were picking a lock and a guard came up they would see the person instead of someone running up, clicking the lock, and hiding for five minutes. If there is a lockpick skill there should be some sort of attatchment to the lock to add some risk of being caught, I think.

[Poots]

maybey, 1 minute to pick it, but they can stop if they want, and start over. but there would have to be some way for a guard to tell if they're picking it or not.



good night.

[Ziel Oden]

Hmm. If this goes into place, two things need to happen.

First, doors will have two positions that can be altered by Ctrl+Door+You. In other words, doors will open and close. Woulden't it be inconvenient while running away from the guard and have the door slammed in your face?

Second, important doors will have keys that can unlock and lock them. For instance, at night, a bar keep could lock up the bar to ensure theives don't raid their kegs. Copys of these keys could be made and smithed.

Add those in, and we have a nice soup for a lock picking skill.

[Devrah Liioness]

Doors can already open and close, by Shift+clicking them

[Ziel Oden]

How would I know?

[Gro'bul]

New lockpick gfx made and sent to Nop for implementation some days ago, the lockpicks item is technically a gm tool. I suspect they will make a seperate item though. Strait up % on chance to fail/learn/breakage based on skill+attributes seems easiest and most fair to me and consistant with other skills. Those 3 attributes seem right on, really you'd be rather bad at it without fair amounts to each of those. Int to understand th lock, perception to hear and feel whats going on in the lock, and dexterity to control the picks dependant on what your perceive. Using the counter seems a bit excessive, doesn't really make any sense. You can't choose how good of a chance you have to break something. Saving time on this maybe we can get lockable chests programmed, that would make it more useful, and even perhaps levels of difficulty locks? I think something like crown jewals would have a better lock than a run-down tavern's cellar.

[Keikan Hiru]

How are you going to realize this 5 minute countdown in LUA ?

[Llama]

Suggestions:

1) 5mins NO.. 1 rot cycle (can be realised)
2) Automatically #me 's "CHAR is picking a lock"
3) What about breaking the door down? I dont think orcs would bother picking it, What about hitting it with a hammer?
4) Is there really any use of this? its very hard to implement, hard to train, and if you want to get your friend out of jail... just RP it? ((And people will whine about you getting him out anyway))
5) I'm sure i had suggested it somewhere.. look for "Now that we have a working lock system"

[falco1029]

Suggestions:

1) 5mins NO.. 1 rot cycle (can be realised)
2) Automatically #me 's "CHAR is picking a lock"
3) What about breaking the door down? I dont think orcs would bother picking it, What about hitting it with a hammer?
4) Is there really any use of this? its very hard to implement, hard to train, and if you want to get your friend out of jail... just RP it? ((And people will whine about you getting him out anyway))
5) I'm sure i had suggested it somewhere.. look for "Now that we have a working lock system"

1) theres an ingame tiem coutner, it'll be base doff of that
2) Sounds good
3) I was thinking aobut that, but thats something for after lockpicking. And if Nitram doesnt approve it, sinc ehe's the one who was to implement stuff for me, coding it is useless
4) Rping a lockpicking needs a gm or to have a key in the first place. And really, this isnt very hard, im in the middle of it right now
5)That's nice, this is an announcement, not a suggestion.


As for what other people said, yeah ill change the time between lockpicks, and some of the time I suppose will keep the character still (im gonna have to look for taht function now...), Ziel, im doing a check in script that sees if a door is open or not, im not stupid. Itd be funny to unlock an open door though

Grobul, level of difficulty for locks isnt in the door script, and Nitram said only to add the lockpicking, not mess with the rest of the script, so unless Nitram gives me an ok there, that isnt happening. And lockable chests will need to be seperately scripted for lockpicking, as this sytem is being put right in the door for now. And yeah, those were the reasons i chose those attributes. As for the counter thing, its basically how much force you're putting into pushing the tumblers up, so more force - more likely to push them up = more likely to damage weapon, k? But as i said, im thinking of implementing it, it isnt a sure thing yet. Ill check again after im done with the rest as to what people think about it.

[falco1029]

hmm, nevermind about the time, it seems like the best route is to just always damage a weapon, with the amount damaged depending on dexterity...

EDIT: Ok, the damage is going to be 20 - your dexterity. so an average person's (10 dex) weapon of perfect quality would break after 10 unlocks. Weapon quality isnt taken into consideration for unlocking because seriously, as long as it's pointy it'll work just fine

[Llama]

I wasn;'t trying to belittle you .. I meant i had suggested it before, so you can see what others would have pointed out earlier, and possible solutions:

I found it for you:

http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... highlight=

[falco1029]

Hmm nothing there I could really use. Im using some of the suggestions in this thread, which should be fine

EDIT: Alright, final(?) lockpicking system (I think, iv'e probably overlooked something )

-No counter for now. If im told that people want that option before Nitram puts this in the database than ill change it.
-Dexterity, Intelligence and Perception are added together and divided by 50 (54 is all three being 18 and added together), then that number is multiplied by 1/4 of your skill for your percent chance.
-You can try as many times as you want, but it's a hard skil lto learn and you ALWAYS damage your weapon, the amount being decided by 21-your dexterity, so someone with 18 dexterity can pick a lock 33 times with a new dagger.
-The skill cap is decided by your three attributes; you dont have a cap (well, except the normal 100 cap) if your attributes added up are 50 or more
-you automatically #me picking the lock



Any last suggestions before i ship this to Nitram?

[Belgram]

Maybe different me's aswell as if the weapon breaks?

[falco1029]

Maybe different me's aswell as if the weapon breaks?

i know the client informs you of your weapon, but I suppose this would be good for others to see it, since a weapon snap or crack is more noticable than a click, so 2 #me's is good.

[Poots]

whoa whoa whoa....so you mean...this is going to Nitram to be put in, or this is going to Nitram to be judged? I never thought there would be a lock picking system in my illarion time...

[falco1029]

whoa whoa whoa....so you mean...this is going to Nitram to be put in, or this is going to Nitram to be judged? I never thought there would be a lock picking system in my illarion time...

Both i suppose. I tend to make some silly mistakes, i havent been using the language for long. And you're welcome

EDIT: oh yeah, ill send it to him when i go to bed at midnight (EST)

[Poots]

thanks for the lock picking system. I hope you continue to work with Illarion, I love knowing about upcoming features instead of not knowing a thing

[falco1029]

It's mainly out of pettiness believe it or not, i never caught devs listening when i used to post millions of suggestions, so i figured id be different and actually ASK for them .

[falco1029]

ok, first likely bugged version being sent to nitram now