Magic Discussion

Jeremy Gems Willowbrook · Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:31 am

Azuros wrote:hey, im just curious, is learning ancient still required to use magic?

either way, its a good thing i learned before the academy went down.

yes it is

Azuros · Post by **Azuros** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:32 am

k, thanks, thats another thing mages have to tackle to master their spells, reminds me, i need to practice ancient....

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:42 am

Gabon Corad wrote:Ara heres the thing...Athain and Gabon are both good friends and members/high position holders in Varshikar. It was RP and i really sugest you dont bring something like that out into OOC because you do not know what me and Athain might have been talking about before you and Stephen even saw us.

Gabon supported Athian and vice versa, i got no problems with that, it only piss off my character. But that we have to shut up and cant do anything cause we would get raped, that pisses me off. Yeah, maybe archers will be good against mages, and maybe magic resistance will make it more balanced. But RIGHT NOW, magic is overpowered, very, and nothing can change my mind about that, im only asking that you guys understand that it currently is, and stop saying stuff about me cause im arguing the opposite on you

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:43 am

i am sure you are one that i have seen standing outside the gates doing nothing but casting with not as much as one #me

I feel insulted now by you. You can ask everyone, and they all will tell you that i do a #me with every spell i do. just in fights there is no time for the äme, not if you are a char that dies after two hits

And every GM will tell you that even doing with rp it is powergaming to throw spells at someone, and he wants it, to raise your defence against magic or train your own magic, or to see how good you are.

As far as I know Athian got already a punishemnt for that in the past.

Turonga Mudwater · Post by **Turonga Mudwater** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:43 am

Case in point of every complaint brought up in the "Probable in game war" thread.

Just leave it, your character dieing isn't a big deal. Turonga's died a million times. Magic isn't a big deal, now you know who to kill immedeatly when you do another war.

The Beatles hit it on the head when they said "Let it Be"

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:46 am

Samantha Meryadeles wrote:
i am sure you are one that i have seen standing outside the gates doing nothing but casting with not as much as one #me
I feel insulted now by you. You can ask everyone, and they all will tell you that i do a #me with every spell i do. just in fights there is no time for the äme, not if you are a char that dies after two hits

And every GM will tell you that even doing with rp it is powergaming to throw spells at someone, and he wants it, to raise your defence against magic or train your own magic, or to see how good you are.

As far as I know Athian got already a punishemnt for that in the past.

Just saying its not me that wrote the upper quote.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:47 am

And no, i will not quit it until you say" Magic is currently overpowered ", even if they are 10 peoples arguing agaisnt me.

Berengar · Post by **Berengar** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:47 am

Firstly it is not that easy to become a fighter

To a certain point, yes (about where you are able to kill ogres without much difficulty), but it takes a very long time to raise the skill further, at least if you don't have a buddy to train with, which is quite unbalanced as well by the way. It takes +30 minutes (without walking time) to cap when fighting NPC's but less than 5 minutes when fighting players, which is in my opinion the main reason that we have so many strong fighters around... maybe this should be fixed as well when speaking of balance

However, fighting is the only profession where you are actually in danger of loosing skill and in addition to that it takes a lot of walking time, even more than smithing.

Now back to topic

, in my opinion it is unbalanced, because there are easy ways to protect you against fighting skills, but the only protection against magic is magic resistance, which you aren't able to get without PG.
Another problem seems to be that a mage being trained for about 1 month could easily pwn a fighter being trained for 6 months. So it doesn't really matter that mage skills raise that slowly if +1% magic skill gives you as much advantage in PvP as +10% fighting skill. I do agree though, that a mage should be able to pwn a fighter, unless he gets in close combat range, however, I don't think it is good that a newbie mage can easily pwn a master fighter, so maybe the damage of beginner spells could be reduced (yes, I have read estralis post that flame damage isn't spell damage, but as far as I know it also affects fireballs

) It used to be like that pre-wipe, and I actually like it. My fighter was able to stand a few fireballs but had no chance against an ice flame.

Gabon Corad · Post by **Gabon Corad** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:54 am

Quote:
i am sure you are one that i have seen standing outside the gates doing nothing but casting with not as much as one #me

I feel insulted now by you. You can ask everyone, and they all will tell you that i do a #me with every spell i do. just in fights there is no time for the äme, not if you are a char that dies after two hits Rolling Eyes

And every GM will tell you that even doing with rp it is powergaming to throw spells at someone, and he wants it, to raise your defence against magic or train your own magic, or to see how good you are.

As far as I know Athian got already a punishemnt for that in the past.

you started it...i was offended by your little hissy fit at my post so my only thing i know to do it fight back!

Edit- after all i am a worrior and thats all i know to do

Azuros · Post by **Azuros** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:56 am

@ berengar:

you make a very good point, except for the mage training in one month, unles you dont count the time spent getting the runes that is. Still, becoming a mage is a little harder to be, because for a fighter, though it is harder to train without powergaming with friends, you can just get a weapon and start training, as of right now, you have to find a teacher who will show you the ways of magic, i should start looking for one myself, i havent looked since the academy's fall. maybe the strength should vary more on the skill after all, once i read your post, it makes me think a bit more.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:59 am

Thats right, maybe its harder to become mage, but once you get your rune, its very easy. Maybe we could make that magic strenght raises less faster with the same amount of skill gained. And Berengar made a good point, mages never miss, this could also be changed.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:05 am

a mage has not enough points to also raise perception. Not if he wants to have higher strength and consti than 3 <_<.

A warrior can forget to put points into int, willpower and essence, but a mage can't do the same with strength, constitution, agility and dexterity. Not if he want to be more than a cripple

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:13 am

Same for a fighter that cant have a high essence, Arameh has 8, and thats why he gets beaten by all warriors.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:14 am

I remember Arameh to be a warrior able to beat most of the others. So I am not sure about which Arameh you are talking

Gort Greegog · Post by **Gort Greegog** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:24 am

Maybe some one should get working on those magic npcs!

So every fighter can powergame and pwn de mages!

Right ara?

If the magic monsters do ever come then.....

NewbSlasherX: What do I do? I maxed Parry, Concussion, Dodge, and Slashing.
NewbSlasherX walks to the graveyard.
NewbSlasherX: Oh a magic spell hit me! Wait I can take like 50 of these!
.......................2 weeks later
Super Arch Mage: Die NewbSlasher, That is the last citizin you will kill!
Super Arch Mage: [anc] **********
Super Arch Mage: Wtf?!
NewbSlasherX: It's called powergaming! Newbah!
NewbSlasherX pulls out a small dagger and swings at the mage once.
Super Arch Mage: Walk to the YELLOW CROSS to get resurrected !
Super Arch Mage: Walk to the YELLOW CROSS to get resurrected !
Super Arch Mage: Walk to the YELLOW CROSS to get resurrected !
Super Arch Mage: Walk to the YELLOW CROSS to get resurrected !
Super Arch Mage: Walk to the YELLOW CROSS to get resurrected !

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:26 am

You want the truth, Arameh is one of the character who has the hightest fighting skills in the game currently, second after Salathe. But Arameh gets beaten by Gort, Revlen, Stephen, Berengar, Gabon, Gorge, Salesh, Rand etc...they all have lower skills. Arameh also has the best equipment possible(well, just not the magical elven armor(Athians's armor)). Nightplate, Drow armors, dark axe etc. So in fact, Arameh is a regular fighting hiding in heavy steel and having very high skills trying to keep up with his sucky stats. His skills are too high so he ever possibly become stronger. There, Arameh's mistery is known now

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:49 am

The main problem I see is that:

There are three orcs attacking out of nothing the town and killing peoples, sending them to the cross. They use potions when they are low on hp and continue to fight against the few defenders.
And than they are complaining about magic ooc when a mage arrives, they attack the mage, and help the defenders to defeat the orcs who were attacking just out of lust for a killing spree everyone else.

They complain because with the help of the mage the defenders were able to win. the defenders alone would have lost, the mage alone would have lost, together they were able to defeat the orcs.

And Arameh whines every time when he thinks someone could be again stronger than he <_<

Berengar · Post by **Berengar** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:05 pm

Arameh_ wrote: And Berengar made a good point, mages never miss, this could also be changed.

That's actually not what I said...

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:09 pm

That mages hit makes the wand, thats the purpose of a magic wand.

Aristeaus · Post by **Aristeaus** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:42 pm

Arseholes

Caeldrian · Post by **Caeldrian** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:47 pm

Aristeaus wrote:Arseholes

lol, well said.

Personally, i think mages are still pretty weak and Arameh, you can always Powergame your 'magic resistance' skill.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:58 pm

wow i'm getting accused alot again.

@ Arameh: for someone not being a whiny bitch you sure are a whiny bitch. believe me in one thing Ath has been here awhile his combat skills are much higher then you think they are. in fact skill wise i'm probably higher then you. anyone with higher skills that thats after me such as you seem to believe must have worked very very hard.

the armor the character wears, sparingly i might add isn't uber armor of any sort he's dueled and lost in it just as he would in anything else. but Ath isn't going to die in five hits. or ten hits or fifteen hits even in leather armor, if you want to kill me your going tohave to work for your food.more over there aren't many warlocks on the isle...there is ...one last i checked, a character type that takes twice as much play time to make effective as either a mage or a fighter and with far less benefits. Warlocks will never be able of winning duels against uber fighters or casting super spells mages do. but in a real battle you wear your best armor carry your best weapon and use all your abilites to your advantage. why would I, after all it's a WARlock, theres a prefix there you could look at

if you think it's bad now Arameh you should have seen my in the old system. when my fighting skills and runes all stopped around grandmaster, believe me by comparison this system is FAR FAR more balanced then the old one.

right now no matter what your essesnce is a regular player even a mage isn't immune to magic. there's no magic resistance currently. also magic resistance will in retrospect only give you as much defense as your stats allow. essence 8 is more then most fighters true but without the corresponding skill you have to realize. thats not even half of it's potential.

now can i ask a question? why is it so important to be able to kill a character with magic? why don't you leave he/she/it alone. i think it's people having to much of a hero complex...

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:03 pm

Japheth wrote: Japheth says:
We'll let it be..
Japheth says:
Until they start swearing at each other
Skrump says:
until they start insulting eachother

LoL, Japheth on quote topic...

But who would want to stop this skill obsessed people vs skill obsessed people action?

Quinasa · Post by **Quinasa** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:08 pm

Apparently Japheth and Skrump. ^^

Post by **Nitram** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:28 pm

I didn't read all the things written here. But in any case, i don't have much to say.

First. The Damage.

Constitution helps against physical damage.
Essence helps against magical damage.

A Character with essence 1 is as resistent against magic, like dry grass is resisten against open fire.

The only things that would help is the magical resistence skill.

Without Essence and magical resistence, the magic will hurt alot.

Nitram

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:53 pm

Thats so true.

Yesterday in the battle Samantha was two times down to 1/20 of her lifenergy. there was just a millimetre left. it was pure luck that i survived and were able to cast spells.

so stop speaking of overpowered. You don't know what you are talking.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:04 pm

Samantha just wears robes.

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:14 pm

I will not bother reading all of your posts, because 10 pages of repetitiveness. But i will say one thing..

Mages are meant to be powerfull, but rare. (powerfull, ok. Rare? not when i see every ****ing second character around town speaking in Ancient casting magic everywhere.)

Also an example for this, several tribes of warriors, and somewhere amongst them is the dangerous mage blah blah blah. Not a damn tribe of mages.

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:18 pm

we can't solve that problem. everyone loves magic. i don't know much about the magic system, but i hear it involves runes. couldn't we just not give so many of these out?

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:19 pm

We have curretnly 8 mages, just 4 of them are strong enough to harm you. so no, mages are not everywhere.