I want to discuss the roleplay of dwarves in the last days. To be honest, in my eyes the rp of Durgin, Belgram and Syrana sucks.
They are complaining that Ghorn is greedy, quick quick with his axe, and short tempered. They are complaining that he is a damn dwarf, by god!!!
They are complaining that the king decided, that the kind dont was voted, that we have no "democracy".
That is not dwarven roleplay!
You peoples show terrible racial roleplay, and you are not able to play proper dwarves. Since month I am working with Ghorn on right dwarven roleplay ingame. i wanted to give the players a true dwarf. to be a symbol for pther dwarfs how a dwarf should be like. and what happens? some dwarven players come and complain that ghorn has dwarven roleplay!
I would like to see that GM's watch such happenings and when the roleplay goes too far away from the racial roleplay they should interfere and tell the players. if they dont listen 1 week ban for char. and so on.
We are a roleplaying game, and someone who plays an elf, a dwarf should roleplay him RIGHT!
Dwarfs are greedy, quick with their axe, short tempered, monarchs, believing in a king, and so on!
Bad dwarven roleplay
Moderator: Gamemasters
I am sick of your whining. You are sounding like you're upset just because they wont go with you trying to rule all dwarves. As I pm'd you, you should have spoken in private to players, not dragged this out in public. It makes you look just as bad as the "bad RPers."
Ghorn's reply to my suggestion of pming the players as not to make this whining complaint public:
Ghorn's reply to my suggestion of pming the players as not to make this whining complaint public:
No it isnt. Then you dont look like a whining baby to others, and you can deal with the players in a non-flame war environment, as I know this is already becoming.it is useless to tell them over pm.
Last edited by Pocal on Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cliu Beothach
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No, I am upset about bad roleplay. And yes, playing a dwarf who thinks an other dwarf is too greedy, to fast with his axe and so on and who thinks not the king should decide but the peoples IS bad dwarven roleplay!
Their try to overtake Silverbrand would be okay, if they would do it with dwarven roleplay. but no, they don't. they show not a bit of dwarven roleplay. they could all be humans, elfes, halflings, it would make no difference. it would fit what they play.
They are complaining in character
And I make it public because i want see others what is wrong with such roleplay. that it is not really dwarven roleplay.
Their try to overtake Silverbrand would be okay, if they would do it with dwarven roleplay. but no, they don't. they show not a bit of dwarven roleplay. they could all be humans, elfes, halflings, it would make no difference. it would fit what they play.
They are complaining in character
And I make it public because i want see others what is wrong with such roleplay. that it is not really dwarven roleplay.
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Cliu Beothach
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Indeed, it is hard to question a character's true motive unless you are him. Trying to take over silverbrand looks quite greedy, especially going to the point where they insult you.Ghorn wrote:No, I am upset about bad roleplay. And yes, playing a dwarf who thinks an other dwarf is too greedy, to fast with his axe and so on and who thinks not the king should decide but the peoples IS bad dwarven roleplay!
Their try to overtake Silverbrand would be okay, if they would do it with dwarven roleplay. but no, they don't. they show not a bit of dwarven roleplay. they could all be humans, elfes, halflings, it would make no difference. it would fit what they play.
They are complaining in character
There, a dwarf complains like that about an other dwarf...hello??Ghorn is too greedy. He is too fast to his axe. His temper is too much. He is too angery. And, he is never around.
What kind of king is this? He would goven over merely 3 of his followin' dwarves, if even that many. We don't want silverbrand to come to an end, thus we acted, fer the best of silverbrand.
An' it ain' like we walked in an' killed 'em. They struck first! We fought for our kingdom, he fought for greed of becomin' king.
A dwarf complains that the king decides, and not the folk...hello again??
You are playing dwarves, so play them like dwarves! And if you don't can, don't do it!
By the way, Ghorn got the acceptance of Tialdin and he crowned him. So it is not really a "take over". The old king made him to the new one.
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Cliu Beothach
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Maybe these dwarves are excessively greedy and show it by insulting you with "compliments".Ghorn wrote:There, a dwarf complains like that about an other dwarf...hello??Ghorn is too greedy. He is too fast to his axe. His temper is too much. He is too angery. And, he is never around.
What kind of king is this? He would goven over merely 3 of his followin' dwarves, if even that many. We don't want silverbrand to come to an end, thus we acted, fer the best of silverbrand.
An' it ain' like we walked in an' killed 'em. They struck first! We fought for our kingdom, he fought for greed of becomin' king.
A dwarf complains that the king decides, and not the folk...hello again??
You are playing dwarves, so play them like dwarves! And if you don't can, don't do it!
By the way, Ghorn got the acceptance of Tialdin and he crowned him. So it is not really a "take over". The old king made him to the new one.
No, these dwarves say they want silverbrand to be friendly, kind and generously. does that sound like dwarves for you? the dwarven rolepaly will go under with that! That is not fantasy roleplaying game anymore! that is "we decide now that dwarfes are peaceful, kind and generous peoples who like hugging others!"
There ARE ways of how playing a dwarf. you can differ your roles, but there are essential things at the roleplay important so that it is racial roleplay.And they are missing those essential things.
oh, and of course they are complaining i am never around. i am ingame once a day. but they are from america, so they are ingame late day and night. of course they wont see me ingame than. to complain ig about something that has ooc reasons is cheap and not good roleplay either.
There ARE ways of how playing a dwarf. you can differ your roles, but there are essential things at the roleplay important so that it is racial roleplay.And they are missing those essential things.
oh, and of course they are complaining i am never around. i am ingame once a day. but they are from america, so they are ingame late day and night. of course they wont see me ingame than. to complain ig about something that has ooc reasons is cheap and not good roleplay either.
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Garett Gwenour
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I feel like Ghorn, the player, feels threatened by what is happening ingame. If you truely felt this way Ghorn you would not complain about the dwarves players as they DO play extremely well. They are not 2d characters that are predictable in their actions. Behold, they have layers to their characters and depth to their roleplay and you say having a complicated character/dwarf is bad roleplay. Perhaps this is why people don't listen to you about roleplaying ?
Furthermore if you truely felt this way you would also go after the lizards whom act like a regular person or elves who don't know their right from their left. But for you to go after these players, who play dwarves in perfect ways, just because they oppose you is out of the question.
To add Ghorn, we did not mean you were not ingame, we mean the characters whom support Ghorn are the ones who only log in once there is an event or someone calls them to go online. Those are whom we speak of, you simply misunderstood.
Furthermore if you truely felt this way you would also go after the lizards whom act like a regular person or elves who don't know their right from their left. But for you to go after these players, who play dwarves in perfect ways, just because they oppose you is out of the question.
To add Ghorn, we did not mean you were not ingame, we mean the characters whom support Ghorn are the ones who only log in once there is an event or someone calls them to go online. Those are whom we speak of, you simply misunderstood.
Last edited by Garett Gwenour on Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
I am never around for them because they are from american timezones. to use that ingame IS bad roleplay. because you use against someone the fact that the player lives in a timezone 6 or more hours away!
And stephen, that is nonsense. their roleplay is NO perfect dwarven roleplay. it is human roleplay, elven roleplay, but no dwarven roleplay.
And I wrote before that there are also lizards and elfes who show lack of proper racial roleplay. But this is about dwarves because that is acttual, and happening at the moment.
I know that the palyers are good players, who bring deepth into their role. but their role simply don't fits a dwarf. it would be great at humans or elfes, but it don't fits to dwarves!
I don't say depth is bad roleplay. but playing dwarves who dislike that an other dwarf is greedy, rough, unfriendly, short tempered and quick with his axe is a joke. Dwarves who want the peoples to decide, not a king, who wants votes, that is another joke. But it is no wonder that you come with that. since your first day you were trying with your chars in a medievil soceity to fight for democracy and human rights
And no Garret, they mean Ghorn not to be ingame. she adressed it to ghorn.
And stephen, that is nonsense. their roleplay is NO perfect dwarven roleplay. it is human roleplay, elven roleplay, but no dwarven roleplay.
And I wrote before that there are also lizards and elfes who show lack of proper racial roleplay. But this is about dwarves because that is acttual, and happening at the moment.
I know that the palyers are good players, who bring deepth into their role. but their role simply don't fits a dwarf. it would be great at humans or elfes, but it don't fits to dwarves!
I don't say depth is bad roleplay. but playing dwarves who dislike that an other dwarf is greedy, rough, unfriendly, short tempered and quick with his axe is a joke. Dwarves who want the peoples to decide, not a king, who wants votes, that is another joke. But it is no wonder that you come with that. since your first day you were trying with your chars in a medievil soceity to fight for democracy and human rights
And no Garret, they mean Ghorn not to be ingame. she adressed it to ghorn.
Last edited by Ghorn on Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kerigan van Ildoran
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Its not really intellegent to start a new topic with the same name... -.-
All here, tell an another story , who tell the right one??
Better when a GM check this up and you all can go sleep now
Its just kidding to discuss so much , its done , when the GM do nothing , sorry
but we must live with that...
When Ghorn is right , welcome a new king , but please stop this spaming...
ITS ALL THE FUCKING SAME AND IT SUCKS!
All here, tell an another story , who tell the right one??
Better when a GM check this up and you all can go sleep now
Its just kidding to discuss so much , its done , when the GM do nothing , sorry
but we must live with that...
When Ghorn is right , welcome a new king , but please stop this spaming...
ITS ALL THE FUCKING SAME AND IT SUCKS!
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Josefine da Vince
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The only thing is that here is someone who wants the good old times back with Tialdin, Rugosch, Bombor, Sherwood etc which isn't possible.
On the sidenote: I enjoyed those times as well, but even those well known dwarven characters would be called bad dwarven roleplayers when they were new now. Think about it Patric.
On the sidenote: I enjoyed those times as well, but even those well known dwarven characters would be called bad dwarven roleplayers when they were new now. Think about it Patric.
for one thing many people take this way to serriously. IT IS A GAME. MADE FOR YOUR ENJOYMENT NOT so you critisize others about how they play the game. Now that thats been said, i just really think this is all IG stuff, no OOC needed. All this bickering OOC is nothing but getting players worked up about nothing. There are many who think different about Rp...who is to say how a dwarf should act really? im not saying they should act like humans but to judge others on how you think they SHOULD be played it stupid. There are those who play traditinal dwarves and i guess Ghorn you fall into that catigory. I myself and going for that as well, but just because someone else does something you dont like doesnt mean bad RP means they add some edge and excitement. Read some old book, there is always people fighting for the thrown, behind or under the king or future kings nose. I just strongly think people take this way to serriously and my proof is this here thread, compleatly unessary OOC convorsation that is only made to get people riled up.
Personally i think Durgin, Belgram and all are RPing well, they must not all follow ghorn because they are dwarfs, as you said they dwarfs are greedy tempered etc...Thats why they came in Silverbrand and dethrone you with force! And even though your all in the same race dosent means that you must act all the exact same, they act like dwarfs, they just dont act like you want them to be. Dwarfs are not loyal, you gotta make up with it. If you wanted to rule over loyal servants you had to chose lizards or orcs. I say lets just end that OOC giant shit and keep up with the game.
theoric and arameh haven't understood what I wrote. please read better the next time. It is bad dwarven roleplay that they want votes. want that the peoples decide, and not the king. if they want to play traitors with doing it behind the back of others, okay. but than they should do it as dwarves.
i didn't say they have to follow ghorn. but when they do something against him, than they shall do it like dwarves. they dont shall come and say ghorn is them too greedy, short tempered and too mean against nondwarves, oh please <_<. and they shall not start with votes, and desicions by the peoples, not by the king. that is the "american dream", but not dwarven roleplay.
Dwarves are greedy, they do love gold. the are fast at their axes when someone angers them. they are not the best friends with orcs and elfes. dwarves are rough guys, direct in their opinion and speach. THAT is normal dwarven characteristics. if you dont want to roleplay them, play no dwarf! so easy it is.
i didn't say they have to follow ghorn. but when they do something against him, than they shall do it like dwarves. they dont shall come and say ghorn is them too greedy, short tempered and too mean against nondwarves, oh please <_<. and they shall not start with votes, and desicions by the peoples, not by the king. that is the "american dream", but not dwarven roleplay.
Dwarves are greedy, they do love gold. the are fast at their axes when someone angers them. they are not the best friends with orcs and elfes. dwarves are rough guys, direct in their opinion and speach. THAT is normal dwarven characteristics. if you dont want to roleplay them, play no dwarf! so easy it is.
Okay, So basically...your saying that because they don't act like dwarves it's bad Rp...Okay..Lets see...Hmmm...
Lets take the Russians for Example. And for an event, lets take Bloody Sunday. Just a nice peacefull day, the Czar all cozy with his wife, While outside in the snow are anger Russians, Communists. The Czar sends the troops out to protect the perimeter of the Building, The Protesters start through rocks, the Czar gets pissed and calls the Open fire. Now. After this, Lenin arose and took a seat of Power in the Socialist Party. Since the Common man(Well, dwarf in your place) Was not happy with their King, they over threw it and took it upon themselves to establish a new Government system.
We know the Russians arn't the happiest, eventempered, nor even the most generous. But they accepted a new form of government for a short while, before it was overthrown for Capitalism and Democracy. What makes dwarves any different.
If you need an example a bit more close to home, Look at Hitler Germany to Post Hitler Germany. Same thing really, just different circumstances.
And before you come at me with the Too much like RL bull shit. Let me tell you one little thing, You Brought this arguement OOC, So i'm brining OOC Sources.
I rest my case for now
Lets take the Russians for Example. And for an event, lets take Bloody Sunday. Just a nice peacefull day, the Czar all cozy with his wife, While outside in the snow are anger Russians, Communists. The Czar sends the troops out to protect the perimeter of the Building, The Protesters start through rocks, the Czar gets pissed and calls the Open fire. Now. After this, Lenin arose and took a seat of Power in the Socialist Party. Since the Common man(Well, dwarf in your place) Was not happy with their King, they over threw it and took it upon themselves to establish a new Government system.
We know the Russians arn't the happiest, eventempered, nor even the most generous. But they accepted a new form of government for a short while, before it was overthrown for Capitalism and Democracy. What makes dwarves any different.
If you need an example a bit more close to home, Look at Hitler Germany to Post Hitler Germany. Same thing really, just different circumstances.
And before you come at me with the Too much like RL bull shit. Let me tell you one little thing, You Brought this arguement OOC, So i'm brining OOC Sources.
I rest my case for now
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Josefine da Vince
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English: http://www.moonsilver.de/english/races/dwarfs.htm
German: http://www.moonsilver.de/deutsch/races/dwarfs.htm
@Patric: Sure about that? I thought moonsilver is the holy backgroundstory of Illarion. There is nothing wirtten there about it. Is it missing or are you refering to Tolkin her?
Yeah I know the old discussion, should the races played like Tolkin or free...
German: http://www.moonsilver.de/deutsch/races/dwarfs.htm
@Patric: Sure about that? I thought moonsilver is the holy backgroundstory of Illarion. There is nothing wirtten there about it. Is it missing or are you refering to Tolkin her?
Yeah I know the old discussion, should the races played like Tolkin or free...
i speak of common dwarven roleplay. like used in most of the fantasy games.
And Amulus, this is still a fantasy roleplaying game, not the reality. the russians are not dwarves. russians are humans. And huamns is the race with the wide range of different roles. that is why it is the race which is most easy to be played. someone who cant play a dwarf or elf should better start playing humans, until he may play also other races.
And Josi:
http://illarion.org/development/us_people.php
the text about the dwarves
And Amulus, this is still a fantasy roleplaying game, not the reality. the russians are not dwarves. russians are humans. And huamns is the race with the wide range of different roles. that is why it is the race which is most easy to be played. someone who cant play a dwarf or elf should better start playing humans, until he may play also other races.
And Josi:
http://illarion.org/development/us_people.php
the text about the dwarves
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Josefine da Vince
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Dwarves are no humans...well why do they have a king? I don't know any dwarven king...oh no! Wait! There are no dwarves anywhere in the world...damn....what's know? Hmm... we should delete all dwarves, elves, halflings, orcs from illarion since they are no humans and we do not how they would act.
Wait! Fantasy? Heard of it. Could it be that Illarion is based on the fantasy of the players? Hmm...
Now, what happenes when the majority like the idea to play a dwarf different then it used to be. Like it is in other games. Wait...I hear martin here "Illarion is his test phase and non commercial" yaeh..that was the graphic thing but don't you think that it fits here to?
Ok. We used to play dwarves though, it were mostly german players and liked each other. Now there are mostly american dwarven players around and want to play their dwarves like they imagen them, because it is a FANTASY roleplay game. So, face it. The time of the though dwarves it over. Sad but true. Maybe in 4 years from now we'll have though dwarves again.
Wait! Fantasy? Heard of it. Could it be that Illarion is based on the fantasy of the players? Hmm...
Now, what happenes when the majority like the idea to play a dwarf different then it used to be. Like it is in other games. Wait...I hear martin here "Illarion is his test phase and non commercial" yaeh..that was the graphic thing but don't you think that it fits here to?
Ok. We used to play dwarves though, it were mostly german players and liked each other. Now there are mostly american dwarven players around and want to play their dwarves like they imagen them, because it is a FANTASY roleplay game. So, face it. The time of the though dwarves it over. Sad but true. Maybe in 4 years from now we'll have though dwarves again.
So that is your opinion. "And after me the flood". But I don't want to give up like others. I still believe in the traditional and in my opinion good way to roleplay dwarves.
I won't give up and see how others make dwarves with own characteristics and culture into a bunch of humans with short legs and long beards. they destroy the uniqeueness of the dwarves and transform them into humans. we will lose part of roleplay of a fantasy game. the folk of the dwarves and their racial specifics.
I won't give up and see how others make dwarves with own characteristics and culture into a bunch of humans with short legs and long beards. they destroy the uniqeueness of the dwarves and transform them into humans. we will lose part of roleplay of a fantasy game. the folk of the dwarves and their racial specifics.
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Josefine da Vince
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Josefine da Vince
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Why playing a dwarf who behaves like a human? Why playing a dwarf who is nothing else than a human with short legs and long beard? Where is the roleplay behind that? Where is the challenge?
What sense have dwarves if you don't have dwarven characteristic roleplay? If we do it like you and others think we can delete all races and just play humans. if it is okay when others dont want to roleplay dwarven or elven characteristics than we don't need the races anymore! delete them all, just humans will be left!
oh yes, a great fantasy roleplaying game where everyone playes like a human and where are no racial characteristics
What sense have dwarves if you don't have dwarven characteristic roleplay? If we do it like you and others think we can delete all races and just play humans. if it is okay when others dont want to roleplay dwarven or elven characteristics than we don't need the races anymore! delete them all, just humans will be left!
oh yes, a great fantasy roleplaying game where everyone playes like a human and where are no racial characteristics
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Josefine da Vince
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......fantasy......Josefine da Vince wrote:Dwarves are no humans...well why do they have a king? I don't know any dwarven king...oh no! Wait! There are no dwarves anywhere in the world...damn....what's know? Hmm... we should delete all dwarves, elves, halflings, orcs from illarion since they are no humans and we do not how they would act.
EDIT: You don't want to understand me. Well. Anyways. If the majority of the dwarven players want to play the dwarves as small humans, let them. It is the majority and we're not playing UO, Tolkin etc here. This is Illarion. We should rename the races. Really.