Bis Bald

[Garett Gwenour]

I (Once again), find myself banned from this fun online game. So now it is time i moved on forever from illarion, on accordance to my permanent ban. I am sorry, I thought I was doing good, I played nice, I didn't make the same mistakes I made when I was originally banned, I helped new players when I could, I made some of the best roleplay I could. I thought that was what this game was about, roleplaying and making friends. But maybe there is something I didn't see when I played.
So this is Sam saying goodbye.

Stephen Rothman - Went missing after he realized he could never truely be as close to his son Skyler as he would have been if he never died. He leaves everything like he left his mother and father long ago, in shame. He is found drinking is sorrows away in taverns on the mainland.
Jacob Kent - Left the island as his dreams of finding a home where he could simply live without obligations was dissolved in the war. He left a letter for Virginie and is never seen again.
Garett Gwenour - Tho heart broken to have to leave Isilwen his love, he understood that she was making a life apart from him in Tol Vanima, somewhere he could not follow. And as his very good friend Pendar Fayed moved farther away from the man he had known, Garett decided it best to leave the island before he fell into despair.
Klast Glamring - Not liking what he found on Gobiath leaves with no regret and no attachments.

[Pendar]

Well that really takes the wind out of my sails; I mean I came to this game and met you Sam. If it was not for you character Garret and a few choice others I may never have stuck around.
You were one of the more influential role-players in Illarion who made things happen and created spaces for new players to come into there own, not mention having wonderfully deep and varied characters who were always a pleasure to play with.
I think what really disappoints me is that anal rape and #meing your cock with the only intent to make a nuisance of yourself, got a one month ban.
I am aware of players who play this game like runescape and others who are as deep and enjoyable to role-play with as a puddle of mud. I have seen people whisked away by Gm’s for res-killing and I am aware of other truly crap role play and rule breaking that goes on.
I just hope that with such an influential player banned the GM’s responsible will at least do us the players who will miss you the courtesy of informing at least you the reason for this ban. I am aware of your ban as grant but many people come back and play this game under new identities and other back handed tricks. You returned proved your role-play hugely improved and made the game a more exciting place for me to be.

If it that you have been banned for old transgression that no longer cuts it, not when you have put so much time and effort into varied characters and enriching the actual in game environment. I have played next to you for a year, if in a year you did nothing worth banning then I cannot believe the “old” ban holds any worth, to us the players. It may or may not serve to grind an old grudge.

We want a better game we want a busy server but “questionable” role players get through the account system all the time. Then it is decided best to ban one of the games more influential players.
All you need to do is convince me this ban is in the best interest of the game and I will drop it, until that point I remain really unhappy about this. If for no other reason than the player who has just been banned is one of the few not a GM who actually leaves a mark on the game world. A grievous loss to a small server…
Brian

[Gabon Corad]

Yes i agree with Brian on this one because i have long played this game from Grutok to Gabon and i have had many incounters with Po Stephen being i was in the Knights of Kallahorn. Not once did i ever see him do anything against the rules, he did not kill constantly he did not attackwith out #me's and if this whole ban is about a char that doesnt even exist any more then its all a biheriong load of shit. I have heard of the char calleds Grant Herion but i never did get to Rp with him, it was before i came to this game. If Gm's start throwing out old players who know the game, the whole thing will go down hill because then there will be no one to straighten out the "noobes". I have seen sam help out new players who know very little to nothing about the game of illar, always had patients and never seemed rash. Im not saying ban me too, but i know i have has some questionable Rp on Grutok, will i be banned for a char that no longer exists/is active too? I really dont mean to sound like an ass but if thats the only reason he was banned then its preaty gay.
PO Gabon

[Sylathen]

I have to agree with both statements. I have played with Po Stephen, with many different of his characters, As he has with Mine, And never once with any of those characters, have i seen him do anything against the rules. As to his ban, i never heard of it. But This makes no sense. Sure he was Perm banned long ago. But it appears obvious to me that he has matured from his previous Role Play into something productive and non-vulgar. On Syla i admit i had done some Riskeh Role Play, but that was back before i knew all the rules. Now, I've played the Darkside of Roleplay with Po Stephen, as i still do without his char. But even that char never did anything wrong. Infact, he's one of the few Villians that will accept Perm death like i do.

I haven't played that long, but I have had an ifluential impact upon this society, And i believe this ban to just be an old grudge and not allowing him a second chance. If you can prove that your role play has suffeciently increased such as Po Stephens has. I believe and reconsideration should be due course. And by this i do not mean That the GM's decide, since you seem to hold a grudge, But allow a survey of the characters close to his new characters after a trial time of say..one or two months. If he is not up to par, and Po Stephen is way above par. Then By all means, Trash his ass again.

I stand by brian with his comment:

All you need to do is convince me this ban is in the best interest of the game and I will drop it, until that point I remain really unhappy about this.

I don't mean to sound like an ass. But this just does not make sense. It's like killing a man twice for the same crime..

My two cents have been thrown into the dragons lair. Let them breath fire back to us.

~Broc

[Josefine da Vince]

Wow...now that is weird.
I never liked Grant to be honest, even though he was always nice to her..which was even more disturbing >.<
But I really have to agree with Brian on that one. I really can't understand the reasoning of this ban. A ban just for being Grant in a "former live"? That is dull ...

He proved that he's a good roleplayer and I really enjoyec playing with him. It was really fun.

[AlaineMilan]

I have to agree at all.. I didnt know Grant, but I played with him as jacob and I really enjoyed it.
To be honest first I thought he is a new player who is unbelievable awesome and I was happy that I had the chance to play with a player like him. ^^
I cannot understand the new ban, because he proved his roleplay skill more than one time and this should be reason enough. He showed us all that he can do it.

[Poots]

what ever! he's a sick pervert!It's because of people like him that make people like me having there mom watch over their shoulder on every website they visit! ban him!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rinya]

!!WAIT!!

I hereby declare that this goodbye thread is NOT yet valid!

It might be. Might. But right now it is NOT valid! On my order! Confirmation is still pending!

[Pendar]

erm poots wtf was that?
If that was random spam go play some place else. If it wasn’t and you have valid complaint then at least be eloquent in context of a thread we are obviously taking seriously.
As i have no idea what the hell you’re talking about though, I am going assume it irrelevant.
As to mothers and shoulders 16+ reccomendation and above post illastrates why its a good guide line.
Brian

[Fooser]

I dont agree with some of the RP done (resurrection, etc), but that doesn't really mean anything. Me and the PO use to play a lot back in the Movement days, and we did stupid things, sure, but so did most other people, because this was Illarion of 2+ years ago. And everyone kind of got a bad reputation for being in that guild, when others did similar, or worse things. A lot of dispicable nonsense went on back then, like GMs following people around invisibly (but their numbers were still visible ), for what? Trying to get someone in paticular in trouble?

I think Grant and a lot of others got a bad rap for that, The Movement did actually have solid RPing in many spots, like Val De Gausse, among many others which I sadly can't even remember off hand anymore. I don't know everything the movement did that was so bad, but it truly was no worse than anything else of the time, and the PO Stephen has had that following him around for how long now?

The PO Stephen/Jacob has improved quite a bit. A lot of movement char players are no longer here, but for all the others, myself included, I'd like to think that we have improved as well, and I think we have. Again, I am unsure of the full story here, a lot went on that I haven't seen, both IC/OOC, but if this has to do with the past, then I say: Shed off the old nonsense and move on, the player in question here has, and he has done so in a classy manner.

[Galim]

Now I am surprised o_O

We haven't the best relationships past in your Grant Herion times and often we had discussions about your roleplay and your doings in that time, and a ban to that time was for me understandable.

But this ban now, a permanent ban, is not understandable for me. Since you came back I didn't saw disturbing behavior or breaking rules by you. Sure there was things which weren't so good in my eyes, like the mentioned ressurection. Or a few things by Jacob. But that never is worth a ban. It's my personal taste of roleplay but wasn't against any rules. I saw more worse things ingame by others, things which happened without any ban in the afterway.

I don't think that a ban is fair and shall be spoken about you and your chars. and that says one of the greatest critics of Grant Herion, and other chars of you.

For me there's something foul with this

[Poots]

I think what really disappoints me is that anal rape and #meing your cock with the only intent to make a nuisance of yourself, got a one month ban.

it's against the rules, and makes this a sick game, no matter how good he is at rp, if he got banned twice, what stops him from doing it a third time? you can just keep bending the rules, or else the entire game turns into another runescape.

[Sylathen]

He got banned Once for it, the second time was for the same offence long ago. Read a bit more.

[Avareniah]

I think what really disappoints me is that anal rape and #meing your cock with the only intent to make a nuisance of yourself, got a one month ban.

it's against the rules, and makes this a sick game, no matter how good he is at rp, if he got banned twice, what stops him from doing it a third time? you can just keep bending the rules, or else the entire game turns into another runescape.

Poots, you misunderstand. Sam, the PO Stephen/Jacob, was not the one that did that. That was anarchist, remember? Pendar is saying that while anarchist got a slap on the wrist for something so offensive, Sam is being banned (again) for something two years old and not likely to compare to that orc's actions.

[Dónal Mason]

If he is banned, then I'm calling bullshit. I never really liked the guy, but if he's being banned for a stupid old grudge, then I'm afraid I'm against the GMs on this one.

Edit: Poots, shut up please. Read the whole post or none at all.

Misj, they'd have locked down his account long ago if that was true. They knew quite well that he had more than one character.

[Misjbar]

Wasn't it so that Grant (person in question), was allowed only one character, as a part of his punishment? (I mean, that was decided apparently)

[Aegohl]

I, and other members of the staff, are protesting this unilateral decision. I doubt it will stand. In fact, the account is currently set to "playable."

I'm rather tempted to get a lot more vocal about this, because this is the second time I've had to launch a protest on behalf of this player, but the funny thing is this was entirely related to a mistake--a mistake that under no conditions should happen--but a mistake, and that mistake is on the part of the staff, rather than the player. The fact that the player ends up being punished for the mistakes of the staff is not right in any way.

However, continue to express, yourselves, how you feel about this ban. I think some elements of the staff *need* to hear them. Sam is a player who plays Illarion, likely, more often than all staff members combined, or at least nearly so.

Some of us are so set in our ways, I would argue, that we're still rping with the same people we always rped with, and since there is so few of them left, only so rarely at that. Some remember Sam as Grant Herion and that's all.

I remember Grant. One thing I remember about Grant is that when he wanted to roleplay he was an incredible roleplayer. I had a lot of fun roleplaying with him on the rare occasions that I got to do so. Others never even gave him that chance. They only saw him during the Trollsbane or Northerot battles or even worse only knew him from the OOC board battles after said ingame attacks.

We were all annoyed by those, yes. However, it occurs to me that that was nearly two years ago, and Sam is still a young man. He's in a very formative stage in his life, and while two years is a blink of an eye to me, two years means a whole change of outlook to him, almost enough to form a whole new life.

Admittedly, when the rumors first came to me that Stephen Rothman was this same person, I worried we'd see a lot of the same things. I was and still am cautious, but not for any personal reasons. It's only that I'm a member of the staff and I should be careful to make sure everything is right for the players. If I had more time, I'd likely roleplay with Sam a lot, and not think about Grant Herion for a moment. He's earned that, I think.

The past of a player counts, but only to an extent. If Sam were to violate a rule, I would likely argue that he get a greater punishment than someone with no record who violated the same rule. However, punishment without a violation is something I am against here at Illarion, and so another protest begins.

[Nop]

Maybe I lack the historical background but I don't understand the most important thing about this matter.

So could someone please state in simple words: What is the offense that this player is being banned for?

[Aegohl]

He was banned, technically, for a violation a long time ago. He was given restraints for when he returned, but the GM in charge of this didn't handle the issue and so it was looked over... until now. Which is silly.

It was the fault of the GM for being forgetful and not the fault of the player. If the GM handled this properly, the restraints would have been a thing of the past. Instead, the GM banned him for not following the restraints. Well, what does one expect?

That is why I've launched a protest of this, and I'm not alone in it. In fact, I have a good feeling that the majority of the staff know that Sam has become a, more or less, valuable part of the community. That is not to say that they want to be best friends with him (he tends to be a bit iconoclastic and anti-GM, but speaking with the player personally he's altogether a reasonable young lad and friendly, I assure you), but most GM's are reasonable enough to realize when a punishment is fair or not and will act in the interest of fairness.

The only reason I speak openly about the situation here is because it's a bit embarassing, frankly. How could a player be banned twice in two weeks and not violate any of our rules? I don't want the players to think that we are arbitrary in our decisions, and so I feel that everyone should know that this ban won't stand and hasn't stood. He's already unbanned, at least while we discuss this internally.

[Isilwen]

He left me *sob*

[Aristeaus]

I just did a large post and my browser crashed :/ so here is the smaller version.

I think this is a bad decision and the player in question Sam is owed an apology in the least. There are ways to make players feel welcome and this truely isnt the way, if our tables were turned i would personally leave.

Sam has influenced the game since the reset of the client more than any other player, his characters have all been well played and his actions complying with rules, to ban him for any of the actions he has taken is pure discrimination.

I guarantee you would not have all the players and history you now have if it werent for sam.

[Keikan Hiru]

I still don't understand why its a GMs fault when a player knowingly ignores restrictions layed upon him.
Sure, closer checks would have reveled this earlier and we would see ourselfs not confronted with a situation like this.

So, when you ask me what to expect, I'd say:
The player following the restrictions until hearing otherwise.

Is there something I am missing to see?
Or is this situation otherwise because I, as the others here, have no real clue whats going on?

[Dónal Mason]

Keikan, let's put it like this.

"Don't break these rules. Now, I'm just going to turn around, shut my eyes, put my hands on my ears and hum loudly."

Obviously, if it is so easy to get away with it, and for a fairly long period of time, the player will do it. It's not his fault your GM failed to enforce a rule. Sam did not hide the fact he had multiple characters.

[Keikan Hiru]

Thats not only a weak argument (from my point of view), thats also a quite dangerous life-style you propose there.
Will get you in trouble with every law, rule and agreement you ever encounter in your future life.
I can asure you.

Just because nobody notices doesnt make things legal, you know ?

[Nop]

I still lack understanding:
- What restrictions did he have?
- What did he do to violate them?
- and when?

Banning someone today for a violation he did a year ago and nobody noticed would be sort of silly.

[Aristeaus]

The restriction was placed, the restriction broken, but was there harm done?

Should not a probation hearing be heared, it seems as if he is being sentanced. And all criminals get to place thier plea after a period of time since the crime was commited.

[Aegohl]

I still lack understanding:
- What restrictions did he have?
- What did he do to violate them?
- and when?

Banning someone today for a violation he did a year ago and nobody noticed would be sort of silly.

That much is between the staff and the player.

And Keikan, that would be fair, yes, if the player came back and was told that it's time to go through those restrictions. It was the GM who forgot to apply them.

[Kenny]

Aegohl, you made the same mistake when you docked my character's skills based on my past reputation of a character I played before.

The character I refer to is Kenneth. He has the highest skill on the server, obtained by legal means of daily training, after the skill cap was already implemented. Yet you docked the char's skills purely based on the fact that my past characters annoyed you.

That was a same kind of thing, yet that one you didnt feel bad about.

Ain't that kinda hypocritical? What's up with that?

All my former violations I have alreayd served my bans for.
So what was this last skill dock and ban all about?

Why was Kenneth docked and banned? Same bloody thing, mate. Except it was your mistake that time.

[Aegohl]

Aegohl, you made the same mistake when you docked my character's skills based on my past reputation of a character I played before.

The character I refer to is Kenneth. He has the highest skill on the server, obtained by legal means of daily training, after the skill cap was already implemented. Yet you docked the char's skills purely based on the fact that my past characters annoyed you.

That was a same kind of thing, yet that one you didnt feel bad about.

Ain't that kinda hypocritical? What's up with that?

All my former violations I have alreayd served my bans for.
So what was this last skill dock and ban all about?

Why was Kenneth docked and banned? Same bloody thing, mate. Except it was your mistake that time.

There is a big difference. I can cite a rule in your case, and the GM's all added input to this case. That's right, the whole staff docked you for violation of rule #9. The fact that you derail topics about this constantly will likely lead to your board accounts being removed as well.

Your case has already been closed, several times over.

This is a case of one GM banning a player for no violation.

[Keikan Hiru]

Sorry Aegohl, I fail to understand your last sentances. Meaning, I can't translate them with any senseful meaning.
Could you please rephrase that ?

Edit: I am refering to that posting before this rude interruption.

Additionaly to my previous postings I want to state, since it may not be that clearly to see, that I not stated anything about prefering any sort of punishment or no-punishment.
I just think you (you all) are rushing into the extreemes way too fast and pointing fingers at each other.

There is a chain of mistakes leading to this situation.

First of all there is Sam, making the mistake not to ask beforehand if he can, contrary to the restriction he agreed at, create multiple characters.

Then there are the GMs (plural please, since you are a team), who simply did not often enough check up thier babies and maybe even forgot about one.
I belive nobody with the tag of a Gamemaster can speak himself totaly free.
You all had the abilities to check up on Sam, and each of you who could read could have been aware of the restrictions imposed on him.
(Assuming its written down somewhere.)

I still imagine this like a routine police check of my car, looking if I have my first aid kit with me and that warning triangle, and after asked for my drivers license I just shrug and say:
"I don't have one. And since I am a very good driver, driving for 5 years straight without any accident or crash, I think you should not punished me for that.
I even expect a apologize from you."
(Last sentance was a bonus for Arist )