Bug Abuse? - .

Tal Rash · Post by **Tal Rash** » Tue Sep 11, 2001 8:37 pm

Today I found 2 people training and spammin spells on the roof to the shop.
I went up and told them to stop spamming.. then they pushed me down. Went up again and asked who it was, then they pushed me down again.
I went up, killed one of them named Boston(8728) then his friend 6674 got me.
We fought some times after this mostly I died.

BUG ABUSE, they healed me then killed me again.. healed me then killed me again.
Isnt that bug abuse? I think they deserves a punishment..

Anyways, they are added to my guilds deathlist and will die until they dont want to live anymore.

Tal Rash · Post by **Tal Rash** » Tue Sep 11, 2001 8:41 pm

Just wanted to add,

They were powergaming, casting spells on eachother alot. And MANY people told them to stop...

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Tue Sep 11, 2001 9:09 pm

Boston has a permanent server banishment anyway. He just keeps on creating new characters which are deleted almost daily so don't worry about him.
I'll checkt the other player.

Boston · Post by **Boston** » Tue Sep 11, 2001 9:32 pm

What the hell you are saying you killed me first and you killed me a lot times and i killed then you too that is fair...And what for manay cara???

Tal Rash · Post by **Tal Rash** » Tue Sep 11, 2001 9:35 pm

One more thing, the other guys number is 6674.
He told me his other chars was Darkwalker or something like that. And Silth.
He got good skills.. probably training all day long
He told me all his other chars have been deleted.. what about deleting this too?
Delete it in the name of Anti-Assholery

People like him where the reason why I stoped playing Tibia, dont want to see morons like him here.

/Tal Rash, played since the beginning

Boston · Post by **Boston** » Tue Sep 11, 2001 9:42 pm

Okay okay...You killed me 4 or 5 times and now it's enough ....peace???I don't want a war

Galin · Post by **Galin** » Tue Sep 11, 2001 11:42 pm

did you say 6674? I believe you Tal Rash and I think it should be checked 6674 seems to be doing a lot of things.

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Tue Sep 11, 2001 11:45 pm

BTW chars of Boston are not allowed in my shop...
You will be punished if I see you on the SilverStar Territory.
Darkwalker I allow in since I respect his power.
If you attack me or any of my co-workers, you will be punished.
You will also be restricted from any special activities we plan.
Get it, Got it, Good.

Thoer · Post by **Thoer** » Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:30 am

Lets get a few things straight rasha.

1. You openly admit to killing boston just because you were thrown off a roof, how stupid. We never attacked you, yet you kill boston because you were thrown off a roof you only went on because you wanted to start some trouble. We never multi-killed you, i only revived you once and killed you right after you killed boston for no reason. You kept on attacking us even after we warned you to stop, so we had to defend ourselves, and you died. We didn't start hunting you until you kept attacking us. We challenged you to a one-on-one duel to settle things, 6622 is witness, which you refused yet kept on attacking us. Many times i only stunned you and threw you off roof, though I could have killed you, cosmaterra and 6622 witness to this. You asked for your death over and over again, we did not senslessly kill you. Now boston hasn't killed anyone really because he is new, but i have. That day I killed a woman dwarf, who came on roof and said no casting in town and attacked me, even though i never even looked at her wrong. I killed a lizard who attacked me for casting fields in town, a male dwarf, a couple of humans/halflings, but not once in any of those cases did i attack first, i only defended myslef. I asked them to stop, i ran away, yet they still followed me........ so i lured them in to library entrance and blocked them in with fields and picked them off as long as they kept on attacking, i never attacked anyone first, i let them hit and cast on me for a long time before i got aggressive.

Now I know your saying that I'm asking for trouble by provoking people, but that is the whole idea. I don't kill anyone without reason, but many people are willing to attack you for very simple things, so then i have a reason, and i don't always kill them. I roleplay, i say and do mean things without causing harm, and let people give me a reason to kill them. I don't cuss, or spamm, i only roleplay insult and steal.

2. We did not spamm purposely, it is not our fault that spells make sentences when they are cast. Why should we have to go way out of town away from people who can heal or offer advice because of something that the game does. Spamming is writing something like #&%(#(*$#)( to annoy people, which i don't do. Now there are people who will spamm with useless script from real life, or spam the noise with doing all their skills in town. Gms are as guilty as players in this. I may talk out of character but it is rare, regardless of what people say, because i rarely even start a conversation or introduce, let alone talk in groups.

3. Now for powergamming, how are we guilty for training. Yes we cast spells on each other, but how else are you supposed to increase magic skills and resistance without having other people cast on you?? There are no magic casting monsters , but many players use magic so you have to have a defense for it somehow. Yes we did it alot, but is only to increase magic resistance fast so we did not have to spread it out over time and annoy people for longer than is necessary. We cast it in town so someone can heal us in case we killed each other by accident, we shouldn't have to travel half the map to a cross because you dont like it.

Yes i cast fields in town, but it was never on people, and it was only poisen at first before people started attacking me. You can walk through about 15 without any resistance so it is not dangerous. I may block the immediate access to something, but i always leave a way open. I don't act like some people and have a conversation in the middle of road and block all access to things. Now bror did not include anything about casting fields in town at all, players made up that rule so they should be only ones to enforce it, and then i have another reason to kill them for attacking me, so whats the problem, its all roleplay.

Now bror if your going to look up what happened look carefully because all i've said is true, which the logs will prove and i'm sure the witnesses above will also agree to the things i said. People might not like me for what i do sometimes, but I also contribute to this game (certain gms know what i'm talking about)and i've played it for a long time so it shows i actually am invested in the game. I give ideas, report bugs, and half the time help out and offer advice to players, which is more than what all but 1 gm does (right pal). Boston doesn't like getting deleted, one of the first things he asked is how do i roleplay and kill, which is what i'm showing him. I don't act like bror and give up and delete them because of some mistakes they made, i actually give a damn (i have a sensitive side, scary).

Now even though i've covered my ass with witnesses, roleplay, and non cussing i'll probably still get deleted, so then i create another character and go at it again even though its annoying. If someone wants me to be good though why not challenge me to a duel and if you win i'll take all your requests of stopping what i'm doing.

boms · Post by **boms** » Wed Sep 12, 2001 4:03 am

you mean bomb... the crime fighting lizard who only tried to stop you??? he never casted A FEILD SPELL once! and anyway , why do you need to duel if you know what you have created... but anyway i am letting this pass through i will forget this ever happened. No replies or anything

Guardian Angel · Post by **Guardian Angel** » Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:38 am

1. Its a perfectly good roleplaying reason for him to kill someone who pushed him off a roof. It just happens that in this game you don't get hurt from falling of a roof, but if someone pushed you off a roof wouldn't you be pretty pissed off at him?

You keep challenging people to duels to settle things but duels don't even settle the issue of right or wrong, so it shows that you're nothing more than some moron who's trying to look for a fight.

2. Regardless of whether you were spamming on purpose, the fact is that when you keep casting spells it creates spamming and disturbs the conversation of other people, which you don't take that into consideration because you're an asshole.

3. If you really casted in town just because you wanted to be revived in case you died, you could've just trained at the cross behind the library where's its more deserted. Its just a stupid excuse you use so that you can powergame at your convenience and try to justify it. Roleplaying a mage isn't standing in the middle of the town or the roof of a shop and casting spells just for the purpose of convenient practice.

The only reason you try to roleplay is because you have already been deleted many times for mass killing with no purpose which is your true colors.

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Wed Sep 12, 2001 7:58 am

I wanted to add two points. The first point has already been written by Guardian Angel as point 1.

>Now for powergamming, how are we guilty for training. Yes we cast spells on each other, >but how else are you supposed to increase magic skills and resistance without having other >people cast on you??

How are you supposed to increase your skill "jumping from skyscrapers" in real life? Is there a need to increase it? Perhaps if there is no roleplaying way to increase it, it shouldn't be increased except for fights with enemies? If I see this kind of behaviour again, your magic resistance skill will DECREASE significantly.

This all shows me that you don't realy have the clue of roleplaying. Perhaps read the rules again and think about why they are this way - play by the spirit of the rules not their exact word. I do the same when it comes to punishing.

Rugosch · Post by **Rugosch** » Wed Sep 12, 2001 10:26 am

> I may block the immediate access to something, but i always leave a way open.

What? WHAT?

Thoer. You've blocked all without a way open. We have tried to persuade you, that you should stop, but you've not heard.
You've blocked the way to the new depots with 3x4 fields. You've blocked the way between town and the digging field with 3x3 fields. There was no way.
And I try to not going through fields of poison or fire, if there is not absolutly necessary.
Do you go in real life through a fire, because you don't want going around?

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Wed Sep 12, 2001 11:43 am

@ Thoer: I know you you attack with words and weapons .... and for killing you need only a lesser reason as pushing....

Peregrin · Post by **Peregrin** » Wed Sep 12, 2001 11:49 am

Thoer you mean we blocked the way to the blackmill?
Well there was a way free - many others went in and out without pushing me away. And if you came this way and asked me, I would have moved, too. But you didn't ask or walk around us, but you stood next to us and casted ONLY because you wanted to spam and use it that way: "Stop blocking the depots and I will stop spamming."

Peregrin

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:51 pm

bah.

its stupid that ur even trying to defend what your doing , thoer.

i saw one day that u casted like 20-30 fields in the town , we asked you to cast some else place , but you refused to do that , ur trying to make people to attack you by provocating them shamlessly.

SHAME ON YOU!

"defending" yourself while breaking law isnt acceptable.

i despise you , and all alike you.

Tal Rash · Post by **Tal Rash** » Wed Sep 12, 2001 6:40 pm

As I thought, no one likes Thoer..

And about the bug abuse.
You paralyzed me, killed me, healed me, killed me, paralyzed me, killed me, healed me..
Im defendless if anyone does that..
And Boston, I killed you 2 times.. So dont even try to lie about it.
Both me and Shi Long stood and shot Thoer with hept kel.. he only stood and danced, ok, VERY good skills I have to admit, but powergaming isnt hard to do so why brag about it?

Grunter · Post by **Grunter** » Wed Sep 12, 2001 8:13 pm

Grunter likes thoer and thinks he brings valid points except for casting on your self or others to raise the skill. Grunter will most likely be a soldier and soldiers did train with others to be at there best so in a time of war they were not unprepared so when I train it is not to increase a skill i know about it is to prepare me for when the art of fighting will come in handy. To protect or kill people like darkwalker. Hi wandy remember me. i now know who killed me a couple of times but i do not like hard fellings so i will let it drop. besides you did not kill grunter any way. The middle ages was not so moral and had many wars but i do not think that mages would have trained on each other they would cast at meaningless objects to better their arts until they thought they knew what they were doing and could rattle it off in battle when the need was great. So what if the person is not rude if you do not like it linch the poor bastard. get a attack force. magic resistance does not mean immunity five people could kill him if they really tried. i know i almost did long ago.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Wed Sep 12, 2001 8:58 pm

There are many misunderstood points from several persons. Thoer wants to defend against magic, an tries to play a "badguy" in roleplay. The spellcasting on each other is powergaming, perhaps we will someday need to rise it otherways, with the use of expensive items to make rituals and stuff, or perhaps through magic drugs.
The practicing of spells can be done well in the wilderness when casting on the ground, ifferent places, and things like that. Rising each other's MR skill fast is powergaming too, but not possible to rise it otherways, except for really long magic duels.
That way, i have another idea : Magic Duel instead of practicing. The two duelling persons stand on one spot, and cast the spells not with a locked wand. The person who loses is the one who steps out of the place first or who uses the first healing spell. Rules may be, no field spells (that would make it stupid), or to use not the both most powerful spells in the duel.
But, better don't do such duels in the middle of the village

It is hard to do "evil" roleplay. Bror has given some links to great tips related to that.
If you meet an "evil" acting person, and you loose against him, then do not attack after dying again and again. Hurt persons, or killed ones, on't o that.
Perhaps we need a delay after dying - a kind of otherworld or such - where you get to after ten seconds as a ghost without been revived, and must manage to come back.

Bordan · Post by **Bordan** » Wed Sep 12, 2001 9:41 pm

Well Damien, your right in some of your points.
Indeed it's hard to play an evil person, because the people you threaten or whatever you do to them don't react like threatened people. Most of them attack you (even if they know they have no chance) nearly everyone insults you and some say they know Bror personally and so all your Chars will be deleted. And indeed as long as there are many bad (and aggressive "good") people around that attack you with magic, there is a need to raise magic resistance. That is only possible by casting on each other. Training mr in a battle against a mage is called Harakiri in other cultures

.
But to come back to Thoer: He doesn't try to play a bad person. He tries to fight and kill everyone. Just some hours ago I had a little talk to him, when he said about another Char that it's a PK and he thought it was deleted, as he himself almost was. So I asked him if he was a PK, too. His answer was: "But I watch that I always have a reason" or something like that. And that's exactly what he's doing. He provokes almost anyone he meets, just to kill him as soon as he attacks. Yes Thoer I know - you are mercyful and let some of them live... but how many people do you kill a day? 5? 6? And how many other things do you do, that can be called roleplay?

Cosmaterra · Post by **Cosmaterra** » Wed Sep 12, 2001 10:23 pm

Hmm Thoer...

Why you named me in your posting,..isent it right that the only reason i was on the roof , the one was to talk to you about the spamming?? We asked you to stop it inside the town,...cause a normal talk was impossible in town,...yes i see you pushed the elf from the roof,...but you killed him before, and he havent a chance for a revange in cause of your power,...good its "your" Role in this play

....and i hope theres somebody brave which can defeat you.....Farewell all...and please exucse my bad english ...bye bye

shona abrios · Post by **shona abrios** » Thu Sep 13, 2001 7:06 am

darkwalker? hehe he back? not like i couldn't tell it was him his fingerprints were all over that character lol bad why do you continue to be a pain to all? why cause trouble why not just behave? *sighs* did i teach you nothing? did i not teach you the finer points of being a productive character? back when i was another character. i thought that you had straightened out under alexs teaching oh well guess you can't be helped just deleted.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:41 pm

Nope, shona. He behaves as a character. The char is a troublemaker, fur sure, because he plays a character who likes to make trouble. Simply the role of a person who likes to cause trouble, kind of desperado in a fantasy scenario. And if you need a mercenary, or even assassin job done, pay him some silver, he will do great work on the job.
Every roleplaying game nees "good" and "bad" people, it is much harder to play the "bad" ones if you don't have game master abilities ( the gm jobs will be increased, i.e. banning people etc.). Thoer played some "good" roles without any problems, he even helps out in some quests with a character. The "bad" roleplay is hard to do, and takes some practice to do it good.
Perhaps, we should define the word "powergaming" more exactly in the rules section. It has been misunerstood by many.

Bordan · Post by **Bordan** » Thu Sep 13, 2001 1:58 pm

Yes Damien, I myself try to be kind of "bad" and I know how hard it is.
And I appreciate what his other char does, especially for the tournaments.
But please don't tell me that any "desperado" would act like Thoer! He trys to find and use every trick in the game, may it be a secret knowledge or a bug and he trys to bend the rules to make what he wants without getting deleted. That is no ingame or roleplay behaviour.

Tal Rash · Post by **Tal Rash** » Thu Sep 13, 2001 4:20 pm

Erm.. Damien, he dont play a role..
He is not a roleplayer.. far from.

AND LETS GET BACK TO THE TOPIC!

Yes bug abuse, paralyze someone, kill him, heal him, kill him, heal him, kill him..
That is what I call a bug.

royan · Post by **royan** » Fri Sep 14, 2001 4:22 pm

I think you should redefine powergaming heavily. I think it should be Ok to train with eachother. Bror you used an example with "jumping off scyscrapers" but that is really a totally different thing. Jumping off a building would most definitely kill you. In a fight with swords or somthing one hit won't kill you. How do you think the medival knights did? If you think they wen't out to fight an enemy untrained you're wrong. What they did was that they fought eachother. Sure they got hurt, but they didn't die and they got stronger. And the ones who couldn't take the pain could go home to mom while the big boys went to war.

They say that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. That's the way it would happen in real life so there is no reason why it shouldn't be ok to do so in the game.

Same thing goes for training magic.

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Fri Sep 14, 2001 4:47 pm

I didn't talk about fighting with arms. This might be a good thing for a knight (I doubt they have done that 24 hours a day, 7 days a week like some of the Illarion players do it ...).
I was talking about shooting spells at each other to strengthen their magic resistance. And I have never heard about knights that step into burning flames (fireballs), to increase their fire resistance in case an enemy attacks with burning arrows. This thread was about two people doing that.

Grunter · Post by **Grunter** » Fri Sep 14, 2001 7:56 pm

Bror is right. In fact I do not remember ever, in any book I have ever read, mages gaining magic resistance by training magic on themselves or ever getting it by being hit by magic. Most died upon getting hit once. Only when the mage had erected a magic barrier or had a special amulet that protected from certain spells better to protect themselves from magic.

Guardian Angel · Post by **Guardian Angel** » Fri Sep 14, 2001 8:30 pm

Damien, his intentions are to kill other players, not to roleplay a bad guy. He just tries to roleplay a bad guy because that's the only way he can find an excuse to kill people.

Guardian Angel · Post by **Guardian Angel** » Fri Sep 14, 2001 8:36 pm

Just one question though Bror, if you've never heard of knights increasing therir fire resistance from getting hit by fireballs, then why did you make it that way so getting hit by fireballs increases your magic resistance?