Skill Cap - A crime agiasnt Illarion
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Jeremy Gems Willowbrook
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Better to have the skill cap on all the time.....then it works the same for everyone.
Agreed it is not a perfect system but its the best we have right now. It is good to slow down skill gain else powergamers and those with lots of time to play would dominate the game with no RP reason for being able to do so.
Agreed it is not a perfect system but its the best we have right now. It is good to slow down skill gain else powergamers and those with lots of time to play would dominate the game with no RP reason for being able to do so.
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Cain Freemont
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Bloodhearte
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WTF Cain, a light saber? May the Force be in my pants.Cain Freemont wrote:Sitadel wrote:Maybe the skill cap is there only to annoy you, ziel
No, no no. Its there to annoy me as well.
The skill cap is kinda annoying. No matter what kind of barriers for quick skill gain is put up, somebody, somewhere, will put more time into their character than others. The only difference is that all players are affected, and it's a kick in the mouth to the casual players.
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The Returner
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CBA to read whole post, I'm a lazy prick.
Anyway, regarding skillcap and specialization, I am one of the few people that believe a skill cap should be removed, this would allow alot less generalization among characters, plus a skillcap removal PLUS Specilization in smithing and other craft trades for quality would mean that one with good skills and one with mediocre skills could finally become a decent fight, rather the then strong survive mentality that is in every single online game on the planet.
I also think accesible skill metres should be removed altogether, If a player wants to be a smith, he will smith. He doesen't need to constantly check his stats scroll to see what colour he is in smithing, in my oppinion. As much as I hate seeing OOC "My stats are all maxxed out" in the game, It also gets annoying on the forums when people pull superiority over others.
And trading with specialized items would increase illarions overall economy, players who smith can specialize in WHAT they smith and be sought by other players, rather then just one guy being "master smith" and giving you all the wares you need, this allows more customization and roleplaying oppurtunities.
You may now bash my post.
~Turny
Anyway, regarding skillcap and specialization, I am one of the few people that believe a skill cap should be removed, this would allow alot less generalization among characters, plus a skillcap removal PLUS Specilization in smithing and other craft trades for quality would mean that one with good skills and one with mediocre skills could finally become a decent fight, rather the then strong survive mentality that is in every single online game on the planet.
I also think accesible skill metres should be removed altogether, If a player wants to be a smith, he will smith. He doesen't need to constantly check his stats scroll to see what colour he is in smithing, in my oppinion. As much as I hate seeing OOC "My stats are all maxxed out" in the game, It also gets annoying on the forums when people pull superiority over others.
And trading with specialized items would increase illarions overall economy, players who smith can specialize in WHAT they smith and be sought by other players, rather then just one guy being "master smith" and giving you all the wares you need, this allows more customization and roleplaying oppurtunities.
You may now bash my post.
~Turny
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Pendar
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I think that one major problem with the skill cap debate is that illarion needs to be looked at differently to other mmorpgs. We are not Tibia and RS nor are we warcraft.
Illarion is strongly roleplay based which brings its own challenges with balanceing the game, if all players were of the same mind and had the same idea of what realistic skill progression meant we would not need a skill cap how ever, that is simply not the case.
A large majority of us wish to play grand heros,secret assasins and master smiths.
As such with the removal of any skill restriction we fall back into the old trap of PGER finger pointing and sudden grand masters.
X lost a fight so rp to them is to kill 300 ogers in a super human show of might caused by rage and return 2 days later to kill Z who was thrice as skilled when the intial confrontation occured.
Yes we have seen it all before...
Now we are playing an RP game so when we ask for the skill cap to be removed we are actually say we desire to train our character at an unrealistic rate to PG our skills.
I want to train constantly and gain skills when there is no rp around.
I wish to master a skill quickly to more effiecently rp our character
I want to gain skills rapidly with out rping consitantly
What does any of this have to do with solid RP this is the base and core of Illarion and the actual point.
The current skill cap works it encourages rp and you know what in +- 3 months spending on average 25 minutes 5 days a week. You could propably do it faster I am just useing my expierence.
Thats pretty much what Illarion is about is not ? Rp over skill gain...
End of the day illarion is not a game designed for single play to me it is that simple. I play skill based and purely rp characters and you know what the capp works. It also ensures that we have a diversity of warriors and crafters and certainly puts an end "mostly
" to the masters of 3 crafts.
Brian
Illarion is strongly roleplay based which brings its own challenges with balanceing the game, if all players were of the same mind and had the same idea of what realistic skill progression meant we would not need a skill cap how ever, that is simply not the case.
A large majority of us wish to play grand heros,secret assasins and master smiths.
As such with the removal of any skill restriction we fall back into the old trap of PGER finger pointing and sudden grand masters.
X lost a fight so rp to them is to kill 300 ogers in a super human show of might caused by rage and return 2 days later to kill Z who was thrice as skilled when the intial confrontation occured.
Yes we have seen it all before...
Now we are playing an RP game so when we ask for the skill cap to be removed we are actually say we desire to train our character at an unrealistic rate to PG our skills.
I want to train constantly and gain skills when there is no rp around.
I wish to master a skill quickly to more effiecently rp our character
I want to gain skills rapidly with out rping consitantly
What does any of this have to do with solid RP this is the base and core of Illarion and the actual point.
The current skill cap works it encourages rp and you know what in +- 3 months spending on average 25 minutes 5 days a week. You could propably do it faster I am just useing my expierence.
Thats pretty much what Illarion is about is not ? Rp over skill gain...
End of the day illarion is not a game designed for single play to me it is that simple. I play skill based and purely rp characters and you know what the capp works. It also ensures that we have a diversity of warriors and crafters and certainly puts an end "mostly
" to the masters of 3 crafts.Brian
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Bloodhearte
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@Pendar
One of the beauties about Illarion is that you can create your own character, choose what he does, choose how he acts...so who the heck wants to play an unskilled, retarded beggar for 6 months before doing the stuff they really want to do?
Even in the real world, it takes an average person no more than a couple of months to be significantly better at something than the average dumdum just getting started (any longer than that and they're probably doing something wrong or just being lazy).
It's mastery of a skill set that should take a long time, not just plain gaining the skill. I liked the way it was initially, where skill gain could be quick but progress really started to mellow down once you started to hit the higher levels. It made the game more exciting because characters had definite (both technical and RP) ways to separate themselves from just being like everybody else. One guy was a damn good blacksmith, the guy next door was a damn good tailor, the guy next to him was a damn good swordsman, and so on. Now, everybody seems to be the same - sucky at everything.
Things have been changed, and in many people's opinions, these changes were for the better. But personally, when there's only a handful of consistent players and even less of them online at once, it's boring. Illarion requires too much patience for the average gamer's tastes (I can't tell you how many hours I've been using just to find a darn mine).
One of the beauties about Illarion is that you can create your own character, choose what he does, choose how he acts...so who the heck wants to play an unskilled, retarded beggar for 6 months before doing the stuff they really want to do?
Even in the real world, it takes an average person no more than a couple of months to be significantly better at something than the average dumdum just getting started (any longer than that and they're probably doing something wrong or just being lazy).
It's mastery of a skill set that should take a long time, not just plain gaining the skill. I liked the way it was initially, where skill gain could be quick but progress really started to mellow down once you started to hit the higher levels. It made the game more exciting because characters had definite (both technical and RP) ways to separate themselves from just being like everybody else. One guy was a damn good blacksmith, the guy next door was a damn good tailor, the guy next to him was a damn good swordsman, and so on. Now, everybody seems to be the same - sucky at everything.
Things have been changed, and in many people's opinions, these changes were for the better. But personally, when there's only a handful of consistent players and even less of them online at once, it's boring. Illarion requires too much patience for the average gamer's tastes (I can't tell you how many hours I've been using just to find a darn mine).
I actually fully agree with you.The Returner wrote:CBA to read whole post, I'm a lazy prick.
Anyway, regarding skillcap and specialization, I am one of the few people that believe a skill cap should be removed, this would allow alot less generalization among characters, plus a skillcap removal PLUS Specilization in smithing and other craft trades for quality would mean that one with good skills and one with mediocre skills could finally become a decent fight, rather the then strong survive mentality that is in every single online game on the planet.
I also think accesible skill metres should be removed altogether, If a player wants to be a smith, he will smith. He doesen't need to constantly check his stats scroll to see what colour he is in smithing, in my oppinion. As much as I hate seeing OOC "My stats are all maxxed out" in the game, It also gets annoying on the forums when people pull superiority over others.
And trading with specialized items would increase illarions overall economy, players who smith can specialize in WHAT they smith and be sought by other players, rather then just one guy being "master smith" and giving you all the wares you need, this allows more customization and roleplaying oppurtunities.
You may now bash my post.
~Turny
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Pendar
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@blood
Currently skill gain is really fast in combat and most skills not smithing up to a decent level. I have a character that with really no effort and non combat based skills can kill all but the toughest ogers. As such he is a warrior and in essence a skilled one, fact i cant compete with the islands top human played warriors is unavoidable reality.
If you search far enough back on this forum you will see a post where I took issue with the skill cap myself. How ever being unable to find a better solution i have come to accept it is one that works and in my eyes an improvement. I am not going to say its perfect and lie, personally i would like to see more specilisation when a char is created and faster skill gain to mid level in that school. Allowing one to have a some what adept char in a week. How ever such ideas are full of pitfalls to,
@turny
Also allready we have smithing,warrior,copper smith,gold smith, baker,cook,brewer etc etc
The fact players decide to partake in sometimes 3 such activitys is a player short fall not a client fault
Brian
Currently skill gain is really fast in combat and most skills not smithing up to a decent level. I have a character that with really no effort and non combat based skills can kill all but the toughest ogers. As such he is a warrior and in essence a skilled one, fact i cant compete with the islands top human played warriors is unavoidable reality.
Intially you will in combat and most skills go up one shade of blue per training session that lets you cap. So that is a mere 24 training sessions to have decent weapon skills. *sucked that out my thumb but im not far wrong* Certainly it has not taken me long to be a skilled miner and smith basic items either.Now, everybody seems to be the same - sucky at everything.
If you search far enough back on this forum you will see a post where I took issue with the skill cap myself. How ever being unable to find a better solution i have come to accept it is one that works and in my eyes an improvement. I am not going to say its perfect and lie, personally i would like to see more specilisation when a char is created and faster skill gain to mid level in that school. Allowing one to have a some what adept char in a week. How ever such ideas are full of pitfalls to,
I agree and i disagree this game is unique and for me a unique role playing expierence. Yes it would be nice if i could create and instantly play a grand master, how ever i wouldnt be much of a master if everyone was a good as me. This game is about character progression and evolution with that and time skills come. It was makes the game a labour and a love for me, I wouldnt change that.One of the beauties about Illarion is that you can create your own character, choose what he does, choose how he acts...so who the heck wants to play an unskilled, retarded beggar for 6 months before doing the stuff they really want to do?
@turny
All very well in theory and perhaps when we do have a bigger player base, right now its hard enough to find a crafter if certain time zones further specialization is only going to make that harder.And trading with specialized items would increase illarions overall economy, players who smith can specialize in WHAT they smith and be sought by other players, rather then just one guy being "master smith" and giving you all the wares you need, this allows more customization and roleplaying oppurtunities.
Also allready we have smithing,warrior,copper smith,gold smith, baker,cook,brewer etc etc
The fact players decide to partake in sometimes 3 such activitys is a player short fall not a client fault
Brian
I know that its not on topic, but someone said somethign about attributes. I KNOW that its old, but i'm not goign throught the forums like i used to before...: ((anyone missed me?))
I would like it if the attributes changed, so it would give the players a chance to correct mistakes. I would also make one go up, and the others down. For example : A miner works all day in the mines, his strenght rises; but you do not need much intellegence to work in mines, so it goes down.
Example 2: You are a bad swordsman, so you go chop trees down, and next time you try; you can hit stronger, because you trained the muscels.
Real Example : My Archer/Carpenter character has about 8 dex, and 6 perception.. this is one of the worst things i could do... he makes no sense, yet i don't wish to delete him.
If attributes could change, then he would lose the essense and intellegence because he doesn't work spells out (not that anyone can), and his dex would rise slowly...
Otherwise IMHO i would remove the whole attribute thing, and make skills help each other.. If you'r good at healing, you'r good at hurting others, if you spend your whole life swinging a pickaxe, you wont be surprised that you can swing a morning star and break peoples' heads off...
I would like it if the attributes changed, so it would give the players a chance to correct mistakes. I would also make one go up, and the others down. For example : A miner works all day in the mines, his strenght rises; but you do not need much intellegence to work in mines, so it goes down.
Example 2: You are a bad swordsman, so you go chop trees down, and next time you try; you can hit stronger, because you trained the muscels.
Real Example : My Archer/Carpenter character has about 8 dex, and 6 perception.. this is one of the worst things i could do... he makes no sense, yet i don't wish to delete him.
If attributes could change, then he would lose the essense and intellegence because he doesn't work spells out (not that anyone can), and his dex would rise slowly...
Otherwise IMHO i would remove the whole attribute thing, and make skills help each other.. If you'r good at healing, you'r good at hurting others, if you spend your whole life swinging a pickaxe, you wont be surprised that you can swing a morning star and break peoples' heads off...
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Kenny
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Illa people, congrats on screwing up the skill cap idea.
Skill cap is not at all what we see in Illarion.
A real skill cap means that you have a fixed number of skill points you can have, and you destribute them, shifting the weight, kind of like the stats.
If you fight more, you forget how to smith, if you smith more and fight, you forget magic and peasantry. Etc.
That is what skill cap really is. That is what can bring balance to Illarion.
The current skill gain timer - is just another retarded attempt to "kill the powergamer".
Skill cap is not at all what we see in Illarion.
A real skill cap means that you have a fixed number of skill points you can have, and you destribute them, shifting the weight, kind of like the stats.
If you fight more, you forget how to smith, if you smith more and fight, you forget magic and peasantry. Etc.
That is what skill cap really is. That is what can bring balance to Illarion.
The current skill gain timer - is just another retarded attempt to "kill the powergamer".
