Potion proposal

[Pendar]

We have the great feature that you now cannot eat while in combat. Why then can one drink a potion dureing combat?
Currently with 10 health potions provideing other combatants carry non I could propably kill 5 skilled people with ease. Certainly some one far more skilled than me would be killed by my now 10x greater health.

I would really like to see potions working more slowly as instant healing means that PVP becomes a question of who has more potions. For my taste the old potions raised health to quickly even, how ever it was certainly bearable.
If potions filled health far slower and took longer to act it would encourage team work in monster hunting. Remove the potion complaint from PVP combat. As really we have never all agreed when it is rp acceptable to drink a potion or not.

Also the instant healing removes any "excitement" from quest spawned monsters I looked at the red skeletons today and simply thought.
"If i was alone I could lightly kill all these as I carry 5 potions"

I notice that potions are not fully implemented as small healing potions dont do anything so maybe i am harping on a point that is allready going to be adressed. If so apologies, other wise perhaps other people feel the same as i do.
Brian

[Sylathen]

I totally agree(bite me )

Seriously think of the Logistics, can you swing a 2 handed sword/axe/staff/ or shoot a bow and drink a poiton at the same time? if so you have a third hand thats not little Dunnie down under.

But even so, it should heal graduly, not instantly, but it should heal more ammounts at a time than food, that would make it easier and more understandable than why you "just cant kill the A**hole" because he has more money than you *cough*llama*/cough*

Maybe me and Brian are alone on this, but i think it is a good suggestion

Noko

[Salathe]

yea, i liked the quick, but gradual heal better than the instant heal

[Jeremy Gems Willowbrook]

Use a modification of the crafting/skill gain system to prevent potion effects when using ANY skill. In this way you could take a potion before combat but, as long as you are using a skill, it would have no effect. As soon as you stop using skills the potion will start taking effect. This, combined with a slow heal rate, faster than food but not instant, should make combat a bit more fun and a bit more dangerous.

[Nop]

Simple solutions that could be quickly implemented

- no drinking of potions while you are in combat mode
- you have to hold the bottle in one of your hands to drink it

That would mean you have to lower your defenses if you want to drink. If you risk that, you get your potion.

[Estralis Seborian]

- no drinking of potions while you are in combat mode

Good! Has my vote. Maybe a minor actionpointloss could be included

- you have to hold the bottle in one of your hands to drink it

I proposed the same with the belt, refer to many CRPGs. Putting the item into the hand is rather clumsy. Just my 1/5 dime.

[Nop]

I proposed the same with the belt, refer to many CRPGs. Putting the item into the hand is rather clumsy. Just my 1/5 dime.

That's the intention.

I don't like having an item sitting in the bag or belt, you click it and it works instantly.

Think how it would go in RL: You untie the bottle from your belt (needing both hands), take it in a hand, pull the stopper and need to stand still for a second to drink without spilling.

So while I have understood that it is unnerving for a repetititve process in a craft, I still like to simulate the exact processes of RL for such critical actions to avoid that false instant effect. If you want to have a drink, you have to put down your sword or shield. Moving those icons still works much faster than untieing something from your belt, just try it.

[Pendar]

This, combined with a slow heal rate, faster than food but not instant, should make combat a bit more fun and a bit more dangerous

.

I also feel it is important to adress the instant restoration of health and in time mana. As It is relatively easy to diselect combat and be instantly healed by a potion. Or allow mages to rain an endless string of spells down.

Personally what I would like to see is that they can be used from the belt as long as you are not attacking or parrying "useing any skill".

The problem with haveing to move your weapons and place potion in hands is the more "speed" based we make the game the more we favour users with a higher ping. I know for me and some others the lag moveing dureing combat is bad, let alone equipping and requipping.

I would actually like to see a system were by weapons cannot be changed dureing combat or armor fitted.
To stop people suddenly placeing/changeing weapons or armor to fit the enemy they are against.

How ever all that said...
If the speed of healing is adressed, I find NOP's idea preferable to the current one so would gladly try it.
Thanks
Brian

[Llama]

Crazy idea; if you are in combat and put it in your hand; it can parry an attack.. break and you lose the bottle..

More realistic..IMHO

[Marik]

How can a tiny glass bottle parry an attack from a double axe?

[Pendar]

Crazy idea; if you are in combat and put it in your hand; it can parry an attack.. break and you lose the bottle..

More realistic..IMHO

Seriously please think before you post.
What would the damage be for a potion bottle ? Can weapons be consumed shall we have people dueling with trout ?
A bottle would break if you parried with it harming you, it would break if you attacked some one. As 90% wear armor not harming them?

I really believe you posted before stopping to think here. Have you even thought about the amount of rescripting required? For a truly questionable gain. Which in turn adresses non of the issues at all, that are actually of consequence.
Brian

[Llama]

You didn't understand what i meant...

If you have a bottle in your hand, and you are attacked; the action is the same [to scripting] as parrying, however the bottle breaks every time...

In effect, if you take a bottle and are attacked, you lose the bottle.. understood now?

[Nop]

Sounds good to me - you'd be crazy to start drinking in RL while an enemy is happily hacking away at you. You also would probably drop the bottle or spill the contents when being hit by a weapon.

In other words: If you want to drink during a fight you need to create a situation in which drinking is possible to you. Suits me just fine - I never quite understood the reasoning behind those slashing games where you just need to press a hotkey and your HP are full again.

[Pendar]

Apologise Hadrian,
Intially it read to me that you could attack or parry with bottle.

~takes his humble pie to a corner~
Not a bad idea when you explained it to me, I could live with that indeed.
Brian

[Mempriclus]

Can weapons be consumed shall we have people dueling with trout ?

People used to duel with trout all the time, though they tended to call it fish slap fights or something.

And people used to duel with a sword and a peice of coal in thier hands....

And infact people used to hit people with about anything you could ever think of.

[Capus]

Selling rare Trout swords! Only 250 coins each.

[Markous]

Fish weapons?

Reminds me of Muten. Hail Muten!

[Mempriclus]

Whatever happened to him anyway, is the PO muten still here in some disguise??

[Galim]

It is really nice that the programmer who will programm the script which makes use of potions while fighting impossible uses potion by himself in fight, really. Thats unfair behaviour, cheap rp and dissembling. it really pisses me off.

Fair players have it really hard against guys who missuses every technical advantage for themself. Especially against the one who have more insight into the scripts and the "how does it works" than anyone else.

[Nop]

Well, as you feel the need to bring it up on a public board...

I think it is very reasonable that a person pressured into a duel to the death for no real reason and unsure about the outcome will use any means - repeat any means at all - to survive that fight. After all that bragging about your superiority you could hardly expect a fair fight from your designated victim, could you?

You just kept nagging on for days and you did not set any rules for the fight. You just wanted to kill. Didn't work, sorry. You just might consider that your char has been tricked. As he doesn't seem to be optimized for brightness that would fit rather well.

As I already told you IG, the chars were about evenly matched in the fight. A fire axe is a pretty mean weapon and I gave you several #mes that I was wielding it. You complained that my fire axe didn't break during the fight. In this, you have been relying on OOC information from forums and an artificial change of the game mechanics to win. That's not exactly RP either. If weapons break by the same rules as crafting tools do, your combination of high strength and probably much lower dexterity worked against you, making your weapons break much faster.

I can understand that your char is pissed about dying. I cannot understand why your are so pissed about not winning.
There was a message with my char picking up all your items and returning them to you. Think about it.

[Galim]

You just kept nagging on for days and you did not set any rules for the fight. You just wanted to kill. Didn't work, sorry. You just might consider that your char has been tricked.

I didn't mention anything because since "The Movement" I met noone anymore who used potions in a figbht. I didn't thought that there are still players around who uses such cheap rp. Especially i didn't thought that a programmer of the game would do something everyone else classified as bad rp and cheap.

As I already told you IG, the chars were about evenly matched in the fight. A fire axe is a pretty mean weapon and I gave you several #mes that I was wielding it. You complained that my fire axe didn't break during the fight. In this, you have been relying on OOC information from forums and an artificial change of the game mechanics to win. That's not exactly RP either.

IG my orc said nothing about you using a fireaxe. So what you just wrote doesn't fit. And I was just surprised that your axe didn't break. Because by everyone else they did after three hits. Oh, the axes were changed to break easily because there were too many ingame and the GM's didn't want them to be used really. So you just benefited from the fact that your char has the right attributions. By the way, it sounds like you used your knowledge about the scripts to HAVE a char with the right and perfect attributions.

If weapons break by the same rules as crafting tools do, your combination of high strength and probably much lower dexterity worked against you, making your weapons break much faster.

Yes, my char has a lower dexterity than strength, because he is a huge axewielding orc. And no sworddancer. To be honest, the strength is 19 the dexterity 12. But still the axe breaks after 3 hits. believe me, normaly my weapons break as good as never. Even the hammers and axes of the skeletons stay for a few dozens fights. if not even more.

I can understand that your char is pissed about dying. I cannot understand why your are so pissed about not winning.

It's not because I lost. Kl'urk lost before too, even often. It's not the "that" than more the "why" and "how".

to be honest, you won because of three things. 1) Using a fireaxe which noone else seems to be able to use because they break immediately. 2)Using potion while beeing in a meleefight and because i didn't use one because i am a stupid fair player who dont think his char can use a potion while wielding a huge axe against his opponent. and 3) because you got two lucky criticals. by the side the only real damage you did. And it wouldn't surprised me when you used your knowledge of the scripts to have a fighter who can do as often and as high criticals as possible.



Oh, and it is unfair that characters with high dexterity and low strength can still use their fireaxes but characters with higher strength than dexterity can forget them because they break after three hits. thats quiet unfair against the second sort of characters and their players. it should be the same for everyone. not just for some. If the GM's to make fireaxes unusable because it was a failure to bring them ingame it should be the same for everyone. Not just for the ones who didn't optimized their characters because of script-knowledge.

[Ziel Oden]

Im taking Nop's side. He is a GM and quest are ment to be challenging. If one person could take down an Army then Pendar could quit and let Kl'urk uphold every fight in the entire isle.

[Galim]

Nop is no GM and it was no Quest. Do you ever read something before you answer? Nop is just a scripter. and it was his normal char. inform yourself next time before you write

[Ziel Oden]

Ahh, i guess someone needs to kill me as im imperfect.
He still works with the crew, and therefor my word for him is: Gm.
Since i have no say in this, i'll leave you two to bicker. Have fun.

[Nop]

Especially i didn't thought that a programmer of the game would do something everyone else classified as bad rp and cheap.

As I already told you: I see the use of a potion fitting the sitation very well. You were even pushed away from my char several times so he would have the required opportunity.
Btw. if you despise potions so much, why were you dropping 11 of them when you died?

IG my orc said nothing about you using a fireaxe. So what you just wrote doesn't fit.

Right, you said it OOC and predicted my axe to break. I think you relied on it to do so because it would be rather stupid otherwise to attack an experienced fighter knowing what damage that thing does.

So you just benefited from the fact that your char has the right attributions. By the way, it sounds like you used your knowledge about the scripts to HAVE a char with the right and perfect attributions.

Totally wrong. He was my first char, built before I had any clue about Illarion and is not optimized in any way. I was trying to give you an explanation for the difference you observed. Why are you so suspicious?

to be honest, you won because of three things. 1) Using a fireaxe which noone else seems to be able to use because they break immediately. 2)Using potion while beeing in a meleefight and because i didn't use one because i am a stupid fair player who dont think his char can use a potion while wielding a huge axe against his opponent. and 3) because you got two lucky criticals. by the side the only real damage you did. And it wouldn't surprised me when you used your knowledge of the scripts to have a fighter who can do as often and as high criticals as possible.

1. The fire axe lost one rank of durability in that fight. So it would just have been good for killing you twice. No special rules and miracles involved.
2. Don't talk about a fair fight when you believe yourself to be much stronger than the person you victimize. Don't expect a fair fight when you corner someone.
3. Go blame the server's random generator for being hit. What you are suspecting is not only untrue, it isn't even technically possible - fighting is not done with scripts.

This is getting ridiculous.

[Galim]

As I already told you: I see the use of a potion fitting the sitation very well. You were even pushed away from my char several times so he would have the required opportunity.

You were standing infront of me and you were me hitting when using the potion. So sorry, no real possibility. By the way, you pushed in a fight ,were both fighters were using huge twohanded weapons, my weapon swinging orc, who has great strength and weight, easily away by "kicking him away" Do you consider that good rp? I don't think thats really possible.

I dropped 11 potions because I use them AFTER a fight. After I killed my opponent or whatever. Yes, you may be surrpised now. You can use potions after a fight too <_<. I could have used them in our fight too, but I didn't. know why? Because i play fair and don't missuse some gamedisadvantage.

Right, you said it OOC and predicted my axe to break. I think you relied on it to do so because it would be rather stupid otherwise to attack an experienced fighter knowing what damage that thing does.

I told you that because I know that all fireaxes break after three hits and because I wanted a fair fight for YOU. I don't wanted you standing there without a weapon after two hits. Or why do you think i was so surprsied that your axe didn't broke? And the axe did, as long as it weren't criticals, not really great damage. I felt your normal hits as good as not.

And Kl'urk is a barbaric warrior. He give a shit on what weapon the other one is wielding. especially with his low intelligence. Somehow you don't have a fireaxe which breaks after three hits, like by everyone else. Or do you think I wouldn't have used one too if it wouldn't be really crappy?

The fire axe lost one rank of durability in that fight. So it would just have been good for killing you twice. No special rules and miracles involved.

That can't be or isn't possible because all durability of every fireaxe in player position got set back to the lowest rank, "beneath rotten" or whatever its called in english. it can't have a lower rank. It already got the lowest rank. That means you got a fireaxe which has more than just that lowest rank. Which is very strange in my opinion.

fighting is not done with scripts.

With what than? What else decices if you got hit, or not, and what sort of hit and damage?




Again, fact is, you showed bad and cheap rp and a non existing fairness. Using potions in fight while wielding twohanded weapons and standing in front of each other isn't better like hiding behind houses. same with "kicking" your opponent around while both fighters are slashing with huge weapons at each other.

[Cassandra Fjurin]

Currently fighting is done from the server.

But i like the idea of "not making an action if you have no free hand"

You cant:

drink potions, eat something, push around someone ... please continue this list with your ideas.

if you have to occupied hands. Maybe in scripts this can be also placed.... so you cant smith or something (don't know if you have to hold all the tools in the hands)

That would only be a first step in the direction of the potions during fights but i like this really.

To the durability.... AFAIK not every hit decreases the amount of the quality. It depends on different factors.

[Nop]

you pushed in a fight ,were both fighters were using huge twohanded weapons, my weapon swinging orc, who has great strength and weight, easily away by "kicking him away" Do you consider that good rp? I don't think thats really possible.

Yes it is. While you're swinging a heavy weapon in an arc, it leaves you wide open for a bodycheck or kick. I studied and practice historical fighting in RL (steel, not LARP) and it is not only possible, it also was a preferred tactics to use any opening to bring your opponent to a fall.

I dropped 11 potions because I use them AFTER a fight. After I killed my opponent or whatever. Yes, you may be surrpised now. You can use potions after a fight too

I have a hard time believing that you would carry 11 potions in your belt, ready for use, when a single one or just some bread would suffice after a fight, and did not intend to use them. But I shall try.

That can't be or isn't possible because all durability of every fireaxe in player position got set back to the lowest rank, "beneath rotten" or whatever its called in english. it can't have a lower rank. It already got the lowest rank. That means you got a fireaxe which has more than just that lowest rank. Which is very strange in my opinion.

You are simply wrong in your interpretation of the post and you don't seem to fully understand the mechanics of the game. I'm starting to take personal offense at your rejection of everything I try to explain to you OOC (and the implication that I'm bullshitting you). I take my work for Illarion seriously. The only character "profitting" from my scripting knowledge is my halfling and I created him for the explicit purpose of spreading that knowledge about the crafts among the players. I have about enough of answering your unsubstantiated accusations of abuse.

Please find some GM or other dev to educate you about the facts.

[Nop]

drink potions, eat something, push around someone ... please continue this list with your ideas.

As I said in the other posts, you definitely can push someone with a kick, a bodycheck or a shield bash during fighting. One could limit it that you can only push away from yourself, but not pull or push sideways. Maybe there could be a calculated chance of succes involving strength and weight of the fighters. But pushing and driving your opponent before you was an important part of RL fighting.

[Pendar]

I have very seldom pushed some one in PVP when i have it stands to reason that if i thrust any two handed weapon into the "victims" chest a backwards step will occur. If you have enough strength to wield a double weapon you have enough strength to drive some one back with it.

I wouldnt mess with push to much its not much used in PVP at least there are propably more pressing cocerns.
Just my take
Brian