Alright, I understand completely why the 'skill cap' is in place (that you can only learn so much before you are 'too tired to concentrate'). It cuts down on powergaming, encourages RP, yadda yadda. I think it's a pertty good idea.
However...
It is *extremely* annoying when you're basically alone IG, or with only one or two other people IG that you can't find. Once you hit that skill cap, you basically can't do anything but sit around and hope someone shows up, unless you want to wander the map aimlessly. This does not encourage RP, it discourages people from being IG with only a few people there, with the result of people not wanting to sign in until a bunch of people are IG already. I know more than once I've seen only one or two people and decided I'd wait for a busier time to sign in, because I didn't want to sit and stare at my sprite.
I don't really know what to do about this, unless perhaps there is some way to link the size of the cap or the time it takes it to decrease to how many people are on or somesuch... of course, then you'd end up with a bunch of powergamers who *only* signed on during those times, I suppose.
The only other thing I can think of is some RP-centered activity one could engage in that would give the bored middle-of-the-night players *something* to do which would work to decrease the cap more quickly... something that had an anti-skillpoints effect... ie, the amount it puts into the 'skill point pool' were negative instead of positive.
Skill cap
Moderator: Gamemasters
Re: Skill cap
This isn't right. If you hit the skill cap, you can do what ever you want, also continue to work or to earn money. The only result of the skill cap is, that you don't get more skill points for your work.NirAntae wrote:Once you hit that skill cap, you basically can't do anything but sit around and hope someone shows up, unless you want to wander the map aimlessly.
But it doesn't lead to only sit on the camp-fire.
The only solution would be, advertise the game, bring your friends with you, so that you don't have to be online alone.
Oh, trust me, I've been all but begging all my RP friends to join up! lol... even been posting about it regularly (including the link!) in my LJ. Gotten two so far, a third is going to apply for an account in the AM when she can think enough to fill out the 'test'. hehe... most say they don't want 'another addiction' though... >.<
And yes, I was exaggerating a little bit, just trying to make a point.
And yes, I was exaggerating a little bit, just trying to make a point.
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Estralis Seborian
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I understand the point, the message discourages you. What would help? Remove the whole MC-System? Remove the message? Decrease the chances to increase the skill & allow more actions per time? I am also not satisfied with the current situation, but it is a great improvement.
I hit the skill cap almost every time I get online when some freaky bugs force me to learn parry. But with crafting, I barely get to the point of no more learning.
As Aragon said, you can continue the actions your char does. A small break helps to recover, take some time to pick some apples or to collect herbs, whatever fits your char.
I hit the skill cap almost every time I get online when some freaky bugs force me to learn parry. But with crafting, I barely get to the point of no more learning.
As Aragon said, you can continue the actions your char does. A small break helps to recover, take some time to pick some apples or to collect herbs, whatever fits your char.
As I said, the only thing I can really think of to help it would be to provide some RP-centered activity that would help reduce the skillpoints in your 'pool'... true powergamers probably wouldn't bother, or at the very least it would break up their ability to barrel through it. Perhaps sitting at a campfire (ie, within a one-square radius of the fire) would decrease it at a slightly higher rate (give being in the radius a very slowly accumulating -1 skillpoint)... or picking apples, or collecting herbs, or link food to skillpoint recovery as well as hitpoint recovery or whatnot. Just something someone can actively *do* when there's no one around to RP once you hit the cap. I don't think I've hit the cap a single time, with the exception of expeditions down to the mummies, when there are people online to RP with... but in the middle of the night, with no one on, I seem to hit it almost immediately.
Or, taking a bit from your thoughts, perhaps as you increase in skill, decrease slightly (and progressively) how much skill you earn for each item made, and at the same time decrease the skillpoint value going to your 'pool'. Of course, that would make it harder to advance in skill as well, but the whole point here is to reduce powergaming. This would also have the advantage of 'making' newer players find something else to do more often, whereas those who are more experienced with the game have a greater option of just sitting around, since they are more likely to have already gotten involved in the general RP.
The problem with just taking 'a small break' is that if you don't rest for usually an hour or more, you'll just hit the cap again after making a very few items... I have a tendency to 'skim' just under it when there's no one online, ie, I make three or four items, take a little break, wander around hoping maybe someone signed on, make another three or four items, etc. It's just that it takes quite a long time to go down appreciably.
I most certainly wouldn't abolish the system completely... as I said, I certainly understand why it's there, and for the most part I think it's quite effective. And once more players with more varied schedules get signed up, the problem will solve itself, as was said... but in the meantime, it's frustrating.
Or, taking a bit from your thoughts, perhaps as you increase in skill, decrease slightly (and progressively) how much skill you earn for each item made, and at the same time decrease the skillpoint value going to your 'pool'. Of course, that would make it harder to advance in skill as well, but the whole point here is to reduce powergaming. This would also have the advantage of 'making' newer players find something else to do more often, whereas those who are more experienced with the game have a greater option of just sitting around, since they are more likely to have already gotten involved in the general RP.
The problem with just taking 'a small break' is that if you don't rest for usually an hour or more, you'll just hit the cap again after making a very few items... I have a tendency to 'skim' just under it when there's no one online, ie, I make three or four items, take a little break, wander around hoping maybe someone signed on, make another three or four items, etc. It's just that it takes quite a long time to go down appreciably.
I most certainly wouldn't abolish the system completely... as I said, I certainly understand why it's there, and for the most part I think it's quite effective. And once more players with more varied schedules get signed up, the problem will solve itself, as was said... but in the meantime, it's frustrating.
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Estralis Seborian
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The amount of actions one can do before hitting the cap is quite high, however, I agree that the points do decrease too slow. The problem with fighting is that fighting includes many, many actions: You attack, you dodge, you parry,... Every attack on you from a monster counts almost as much as if you'd craft a plate mail.
Decreasing the learning speed is not a real option for me: It is already damn slow. Not in the beginning, but the more skill you have, the slower it increases. And: Powergamers wouldn't bother to click a thousand times instead of 500 times, but a true roleplayer would be pissed to click even more.
The system needs some balancing, but the main principle is good. But the main objective should be to encourage players to stay online, not to scare them away.
Decreasing the learning speed is not a real option for me: It is already damn slow. Not in the beginning, but the more skill you have, the slower it increases. And: Powergamers wouldn't bother to click a thousand times instead of 500 times, but a true roleplayer would be pissed to click even more.
The system needs some balancing, but the main principle is good. But the main objective should be to encourage players to stay online, not to scare them away.
So there is a seperate skill cap for each skill group?
If not i imagine a tad annoyance of useing your skill cap trying to cut wood, or mine ore.
If this is the case as well,, if you die you lose skill yes, so i imagine your language skill will decrease *g* Does this mean in the future you shall be using the skill points when you speak to people.
If not i imagine a tad annoyance of useing your skill cap trying to cut wood, or mine ore.
If this is the case as well,, if you die you lose skill yes, so i imagine your language skill will decrease *g* Does this mean in the future you shall be using the skill points when you speak to people.
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Jeremy Gems Willowbrook
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There is only one skill cap. Any use of skill counts against this cap. Crafts just count less towards it than fighting. If you chop trees till you hit the cap you wont be able to learn anything else for a time. As soon as you stop using skills then the cap starts to decrease again....allowing you to learn again after a short time. However, the longer you leave it before using skills again the more you will be able to learn before you hit the cap again.
If you wait a few minutes you will be able to use skill only a few times before hitting the cap again.
This is one reason why Jeremy walks around rather than using the teleport books.
Not that I hit the skill cap too often anyway. I get bored shift clicking far too quickly.
If you wait a few minutes you will be able to use skill only a few times before hitting the cap again.
This is one reason why Jeremy walks around rather than using the teleport books.
Not that I hit the skill cap too often anyway. I get bored shift clicking far too quickly.-
Devrah Liioness
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I agree about there being absolutely nothing to do at night... I was so bored I *almost* had Devrah be nice to Maggie! That would have been a tragedy indeed. Now, I know people probably aren't going to like me saying this, but...
Well, is the whole skill cap thing absolutely necessary anyway? I mean, for some characters it is *extremely* IC to train constantly anyway. I understand the concern for powergaming, but most of the people on Illarion only train when there's no RP going on anyway...And anyone that is truly going to PG, well, they won't stay long in Illarion anyway, when they realize that going around killing people won't bring them any glory, it will only get them banned from town so they have to wander around all alone in the wilderness, thus cut off from most of the players anyway. In my opinion, the skill cap kind of gets in the way of true RP'ers that have nothing to do at night, or that want to play characters that are skilled at something. RP-wise, isn't it weird that as soon as everyone gets to the island, they magically forget everything they knew how to do before, and it takes them months to pick it up again?
Well, is the whole skill cap thing absolutely necessary anyway? I mean, for some characters it is *extremely* IC to train constantly anyway. I understand the concern for powergaming, but most of the people on Illarion only train when there's no RP going on anyway...And anyone that is truly going to PG, well, they won't stay long in Illarion anyway, when they realize that going around killing people won't bring them any glory, it will only get them banned from town so they have to wander around all alone in the wilderness, thus cut off from most of the players anyway. In my opinion, the skill cap kind of gets in the way of true RP'ers that have nothing to do at night, or that want to play characters that are skilled at something. RP-wise, isn't it weird that as soon as everyone gets to the island, they magically forget everything they knew how to do before, and it takes them months to pick it up again?
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Olar Dessautus
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I agree completly with taking it off. For a few pointers:
While farming you want to soak up everyhting you do, however if you have just cut the first bail of grain, and you get the skill cap, then your flat out of luck.
If you are fighting Mummys are some realy far off monster, if you have a low skill tolerance then you will hit the cap after a few fights and have to walk all the way back, a major waste of time.
Im an Illarion camper, i have tons of time for illarion and spend sometimes 15-24 hours a day on the game. I try to stay out of the way and talk to the few people that sprout good conversations, and those people are usaly on the same time of day, so when they have to go to work/school/sleep im stuck with a few germans that are training themselves. Therefor:
No RP and No Training...
Make Elfy go crazy...
While farming you want to soak up everyhting you do, however if you have just cut the first bail of grain, and you get the skill cap, then your flat out of luck.
If you are fighting Mummys are some realy far off monster, if you have a low skill tolerance then you will hit the cap after a few fights and have to walk all the way back, a major waste of time.
Im an Illarion camper, i have tons of time for illarion and spend sometimes 15-24 hours a day on the game. I try to stay out of the way and talk to the few people that sprout good conversations, and those people are usaly on the same time of day, so when they have to go to work/school/sleep im stuck with a few germans that are training themselves. Therefor:
No RP and No Training...
Make Elfy go crazy...
You work and hit the skill cap, you don't work TO hit the skill cap. This is not only just to limit skill gain, but simple logic. Your character cannot mine 24/7 logically, its too physically draining. As your skill becomes higher and you character better at mining, you will be able to get much more before hitting your cap. This both serves as making it harder to reach the max, and logically your char could work longer since they were conditioned to work like that, and know how to make the most of each stroke. The skill cap accually makes it easier to gain skill MUCH faster than in the old client at least from my experience. You can work while the skill cap is on, its not illegal or anything.
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Pendar
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I am a firm supporter of the skill cap, I really think it is working well now.
A post can be found some place on this board "maybe" were i questioned the merits of the cap and looked at better implementation. I am truly happy with it now, seems to work well i am able to level up fast enough and it passes soon enough in game.
It does encourage rp and stops people spending 4 days just skilling up and being good all of sudden.
Remember now the skills raise much quicker so why not take the time you would have spent shift clicking and use it to rp and enjoy the main point of this game each other.
Brian
A post can be found some place on this board "maybe" were i questioned the merits of the cap and looked at better implementation. I am truly happy with it now, seems to work well i am able to level up fast enough and it passes soon enough in game.
It does encourage rp and stops people spending 4 days just skilling up and being good all of sudden.
Remember now the skills raise much quicker so why not take the time you would have spent shift clicking and use it to rp and enjoy the main point of this game each other.
Brian
For, I believe, the third time now:
I *like* the skillcap and think it's very effective... *when there are other people to RP with*. My complaint was that there is little to nothing to do then *when no one else is on*. I would much rather RP, when there is someone to RP *with*. When there's no one else, it isn't very enjoyable to sit and RP by yourself. Yes, you can keep on crafting... but when you're low enough in skill, the only reason to craft is to get better, so that you can make items that others will buy.
I *like* the skillcap and think it's very effective... *when there are other people to RP with*. My complaint was that there is little to nothing to do then *when no one else is on*. I would much rather RP, when there is someone to RP *with*. When there's no one else, it isn't very enjoyable to sit and RP by yourself. Yes, you can keep on crafting... but when you're low enough in skill, the only reason to craft is to get better, so that you can make items that others will buy.
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Pendar
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We get back to the concept that not everyone is honorable or fair. Almost any measure to make the skill cap more variable or pass quicker under X conditions would be abbused by people over time.
The issue of the game being "boreing" when people are not online is as stated more easily rectified by encourageing new players something we all know we need, as you said you have and continue to draw more players.
Illarion is not a skill based concept makeing the game more encourageing by lureing players to play longer with skill gain. It is unfortunate that we even need a cap, as most of us would not abuse skill gain. How ever some will and let me say there are few things worse than a badly played character who can wipe out the town.
http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... hlight=cap
Have a look at this post you will see i had similar concerns how ever time in game and thought on my part have left be thinking the current system actually works rather well.
Brian
The issue of the game being "boreing" when people are not online is as stated more easily rectified by encourageing new players something we all know we need, as you said you have and continue to draw more players.
Illarion is not a skill based concept makeing the game more encourageing by lureing players to play longer with skill gain. It is unfortunate that we even need a cap, as most of us would not abuse skill gain. How ever some will and let me say there are few things worse than a badly played character who can wipe out the town
.http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... hlight=cap
Have a look at this post you will see i had similar concerns how ever time in game and thought on my part have left be thinking the current system actually works rather well.
Brian