SMACC - price list

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Tue May 07, 2002 1:30 am

Damien, are you still running this? If not, how about we scratch it. Last time I bothered to look here, there still wasn't any elected members. And I really don't want to be the head man of this, since people despise it so much and I have better things to do.
Before, I thought that this HAD to stay here, so maybe I could get elected to make it a lot less harsh than it is now. But now that I see that hardly anyone even cares what SMACC thinks, I think I'll disregard it too. Next time anyone wants to make laws, they should come across a little easier. The brick wall was too high to climb, so we're going around it.
So, I erase my name from the votings. Until another day, when we really need it. We were mistaken, you all. We didn't need laws, we just needed to pound some sense into the morons that sell for unrealistic prices. And those are only a few out of the many that come and go every day.

Sir Malasan · Post by **Sir Malasan** » Tue May 07, 2002 9:07 pm

Hmmm. Also ich kenne die Smacc Liste an und werde nach Ihr handeln!

Sir Malasan

Turin Ironhammer · Post by **Turin Ironhammer** » Tue May 07, 2002 11:39 pm

Well well, after all the #@&% you give me now you leave smacc. Why didn't you just save me the time and leave in the first place? O well any ways it seems smacc is finally breaking up. It sure did take you long enough. Well at least all those threats might stop. Of course this doesn't mean I am going to raise or lower my prices any.

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Wed May 08, 2002 3:19 am

Just because I left SMACC doesn't mean I support you. I wanted to discontinue the conflict between us (and apparently you dont), but that isn't the reason I quit. Tell me now, end the conflict of not?

Turin Ironhammer · Post by **Turin Ironhammer** » Wed May 08, 2002 10:44 pm

Astral I did not think there was a conflict. If so I want none of it. And I know that you do not support me. And perhaps you should read your own signature next time you write it. I was not the one who started this you were.

Caranthir the great · Thu May 09, 2002 12:11 am

Well sad to see SMACC coming down..
Dont get me wrong. I am "smacc 'till end", but when lot of influencal people leave it, the furure doesnt seem too brigth.
It surely had it's problems, but the main point was good.. what you refuse too see while being too busy to arm newcomers with cheap weapons, but heck with it..
Like anyone would care..

And say, why the heck you complain about newcomers killing you and being agressive, while you at the same time wreck the only thing that is currently trying to slow down the continuous supply of cheap weapons, think about it.

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Thu May 09, 2002 2:21 am

I dont like newcomers running rampage, but I also like to make a living. Sorry to say it, but nobody can make a living selling at SMACC prices.

@Turin:
Do you just not want to put it behind? You keep bringing it up, and up, and getting the last word, just put it behind us, alright?

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Thu May 09, 2002 1:43 pm

@Turin: What, you think I did it because of SMACC? No! Your prices are silly, they are nonsense. What kind of blacksmith with half a brain would spend days working on a platemail armor, then practically give it away? Come on, you MUST be smarter than that!
Oh, and that threat that you made... Yes, you remember that.

Gurok · Post by **Gurok** » Fri May 10, 2002 7:14 am

Why are people saying that it is impossible to make a living selling at SMACC prices? Thats insane. If everyone sold at this price, then the new arrivals would have to buy for the SMACC prices or take days to learn how to make the items themselves, all the time being at risk of invasions and murderers. The only problem with SMACC now is there are not enough people enforcing it. Once the council of 7 is set up and running this will surely be delt with and a town guard system will be a part of that system I think.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Fri May 10, 2002 5:40 pm

"I dont like newcomers running rampage, but I also like to make a living. Sorry to say it, but nobody can make a living selling at SMACC prices. "

I am not getting your point here, this what you say is nonsense.
You make better living when you get 20 golpieces out of an platemail instead of 500?
Wow, you must be an genie.
Maybe you can clear things up for me..

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Sun May 12, 2002 3:19 am

I could charge 5000 gold per plate armor if I wanted, does that make me rich? No, in order to make a profit, someone has to actually buy the product! So you can go sell for SMACC's high prices, but are you making a profit? No. The only ones who make a profit are those that sell plate armor for 50 gold (and there are enough of them). So that's how the buy-sell thing works, in case anyone was confused (somehow....)

I should have seen it from the beginning, SMACC would not work. Good idea, but no support. Absolutely none. So the - what, three of us? - can just sit here and suffer trying to endorse SMACC, or we can go back to the other ways and profit. SMACC spells death for all the merchants who join it.

My prices shall be reasonable. Not 50 gold per plate armor, but more like 125. At least it's better than 500. I shall watch to see if SMACC ever evolves into anything - from the outside - and if it does, I shall be shocked. Good day!

Sir Malasan · Post by **Sir Malasan** » Thu May 16, 2002 1:25 pm

#me läuft ans schwarze Brett und liest sich alles durch.
#me fragt sich ob Lennier nun nominiert ist.
#me denkt sich das er eine gute Wahl wäre.
#me schlendert weiter.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Thu May 16, 2002 1:35 pm

Totally wrong, Astral.
If you are a SMACC merchant, buy the stack empty from those who sell things for less than the shop price - you will make a high profit.

That is the way SMACC works. Plain and simple. Buy everything from those who sell for a very low price, and sell at the shop, or at SMACC prices.
This way will solve two things :

First, the merchants of SMACC will make a good profit.

Second, the newbies won't have the best equipment within seconds. Perhaps within half a day, but not within seconds. Until then, they know the world a little better, get to know some people, and don't start to bully other people around most likely.

And another thing is : At the moment, the coal and iron ore things are easy to find. But imagine what happens when the local resources on the surface are worn out, and you WILL have to go underground to find them ! Imagine what happens when the high-quality-ore we now find at the surface is not there anymore, and we would have to melt several ore rocks to make metal bars from it... this Island has high resources at the surface. But this surface is thin, and it is just a matter of years until these resources are depleted. These kind of resources are unique on the world... Well, you see the point.

Juliana · Post by **Juliana** » Thu May 16, 2002 3:39 pm

It's not right at all what you're saying Astral.
I'm a smith and I sell my goods at SMACC prices. Most of my customers don't have any problem with buying at those prices. So my prices for platearmours are 2 silver per piece. Perhaps I don't sell as many a day as someone who sells for only 50 gold but I don't need to. You have to get rid of 10 platearmours for earning the same money as I. The result is that you need more time for making the same profit as somebody with SMACC prices. It's your own fault when you don't have any customers. There are enough who accept the price list.
Another thing is that it isn't realistic to sell for 50 gold a platearmour. You need much time for getting the skill to smith one and the price does not represent it. If there's someone who sells at low prices I hink that it isn't okay. If EVERY merchant accepted the SMACC prices there wouldn't be any problem. But this will never occur. There always will be a person who sells for too low prices but he can't be online every time and there aren't much of them as you say. It's not easy to get some goods when there's nobody who accepts selling for so low. Try the SMACC prices. At first, I think, you won't sell much . But after some time when SMACC is accepted by most merchants you will get more money for the same work. But if you don't agree you're someone of those who render it more difficult to enforce SMACC.
I also agree with Damien because in my opinion no newbie should have the best equipment after seconds.

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Thu May 16, 2002 10:48 pm

Astral doesn't have it all wrong. He shares the same opinion as you, he does NOT want newbies having platearmors in a few minutes.
Damien, if you would lower the prices, maybe I would consider joining. But right now, SMACC is doing things unfairly. You are putting minimum prices on standard prices, boosting up the prices far too much in such a short time. SilverStar was gradually raising it's prices to the economy, and the economy has no problems. But then SMACC comes along, and:
BAM! Everyone is upset about the changes. You need to make things gradual.
Say back in the old times, everyone is getting apples for 5 gold each. The marketman knows their real worth is 7, but he needs to get people used to his sales. A few weeks later, he decides he wants to raise his prices to 6 gold, and the people accept, since they know him to be very generous. The next week, he raises it to the normal 7 gold. People still think this is generous, and he is getting good sales. With SMACC, you started with 5 gold per apple, then shot up to 8 gold per apple. The people are now disgusted and will go and pick apples themselves! Thats where you went wrong.
You say we don't understand, but you SMACC people are too stubborn to listen!

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Fri May 17, 2002 3:26 am

@Damien:
I don't see your point. How is being a member of SMACC going to prevent young ones from having high quality equipment? Like I explained, now that SMACC is formed, it is EASIER for these young ones to get the equipment. Why? Since SMACC came along so suddenly (like Erdrick pointed out), it angered many people, and now they sell for even LOWER than they did before for no reason but to protest SMACC. So think about it. You guys are trying to help, and I see your efforts, but it is ruined. You came out to suddenly, and now you can convince nobody to join. About buying from others and selling to shop: Nobody is that stupid to sell things for that low! They sell firesword for 10-20 gold. What do you get for it at the shop? 6 gold!!!! No profit there, that one's out. Then there is selling it back at SMACC prices: As many people have stated, "You can't make a living selling at SMACC prices". So that one is out too. So we are now once again down to ZERO ways for a SMACC merchant to make money. It doesn't matter how long you think, you are never going to find any reason that I should come back. So give it up. SMACC is down.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Fri May 17, 2002 6:22 pm

Of course, the shop buys for far less... because of a reason. Eliza buys almost everything. Even if there is no request on the continent, she puts it on stack.
On the other hand, the salesman in the shop sells for SMACC- conform prizes. Those people who sell for far lower, are responsible for their own pity : If everyone would sell for the SMACC prices, they were able to make a far higher profit by reducing their prices a little bit (within the ten per cent rate). SMACC does not only provide a good profit - it also ensures trade and communication between the people, so the young ones may find friends easier and do not start to kill everyting in sight.
You forget that SMACC is thought to work in the long run. Every merchant can rise his prices slowly, until he reaches the SMACC minimum. At the moment, there is no SMACC council elected, people can prepare their election campaigns. SMACC is not an enforcement - it is an opportunity for every good merchant. Of course it needs a little time, but every merchant can rise his prices easily within few months.

In the long run, those who sell far below SMACC prices, will have a far lower profit than the others. In some time, perhaps even a minus. It's their own fault.

Humans often think very narrow-minded. They do not think in the long run, so most of their plans fail, or the effects do not last. Noone said that SMACC would be able to take effect immediately - but the more we support it, the faster and better it will work.
The prices do not influence the request of items, at least not for items as armor and weapons. You buy one plate armor, and you use it for your whole life. So the only buying people are the new ones.
If a plate armor sells for 20 FISH... or gold, regarding that one gold is worth one fish, you simply see that every youngling can buy the best things within half a minute.

The idea of SMACC is my reaction to lots of complains against the low prices. Now, many people support SMACC, but some of the old complaining people simply complain about SMACC now. I guess, that the reason for this is this astonishing aspect of the human nature : They closely watch situations simply to find something they can complain about, only for the reason to show themselves how bad life is. It is astonishing... sometimes i think, if they would stop rebelling against everything without thinking over the long-time-consequences, they would have nothing to do.

(Edited by Damien at 6:33 pm on May 17, 2002)

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Fri May 17, 2002 9:06 pm

((You know, if this wasn't on the RPG board, you would have NO ammo against us.))
Yes, but the difference here is that us humans are worried about what's happening NOW. You start a group, start throwing out laws, and then hand it off to candidates. If I were you, I'd lower the prices before we start winning. There is no law in the world made by a group who has one leader who "can't touch" his own organization that I will follow. You can boycott all you want, but you are really just boycotting against people who stay for a week, sell about 1 armor then never play again.

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Mon May 20, 2002 8:50 pm

That is the problem with elves.....

Always thinking so far down the road, since they have almost all eternity to accomplish their goal....

Do you expect us humans to sit here and wait 80 years until SMACC takes hold and flourishes? Do you want us to wait until we are nothing more than skeletons for SMACC? Maybe it is fine for elves, but humans can't sit around and just wait for their task to complete itself, we actually do something about it. We aren't lazy, we work for our goals.

So maybe in 600 years SMACC might become popular....

Think about the present for once Damien, not years in advance.

Morgaine Le Fay · Post by **Morgaine Le Fay** » Mon May 20, 2002 9:08 pm

i just wondered when i will see my name on that list...

Lasarath · Post by **Lasarath** » Tue May 28, 2002 1:38 pm

As a jewl merchant I Find these prices fair.
Not only can I turn a good profiet but I Dont have to spend the whole day mineing and cutting to feed myself ((Powergameing))
I Also dont have to worry as much about people who dont mind working all day so they can afford selling at these crazy cheap prices.

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Tue May 28, 2002 1:54 pm

As a jewel merchant, you are allowed to cut gems all day.
Damien digs a heck of a lot, and hes OLD. =)
Powergaming is mainly fighting without purpose.
Right now, even peasants have to go dig. Don't worry about it.

Lasarath · Post by **Lasarath** » Tue May 28, 2002 6:28 pm

I Understand that these prices change alot, Now im wondering if there is an updated Listing of this as it can be a hard task to keep up on current events if they are not posted.

((Somewhere I dont have to search through a messageboard each day to cheak for changes if someone where to make a Website it would be real usefull and could also provide a place for a console to vote on prices and even update the list some more as many items are not listed

In english and German would also be usefull))

(Edited by Lasarath at 6:34 pm on May 28, 2002)

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Wed May 29, 2002 3:36 am

Selling at SMACC prices, why don't you have to worry about others selling for cheaper? I think the exact opposite, selling at SMACC prices, you will easily be undersold. It is sort of hard to sell a plate armor at 600 gold when the person next to you sells it for 100.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Fri May 31, 2002 7:31 pm

Of course not if the person selling for 100 is going to sell for 600 too.

Juliana · Post by **Juliana** » Fri May 31, 2002 10:46 pm

And that's the point. If you don't sell at 600 g you will be one of the person who sell for less for example 100 g. So you do not support SMACC. But that means that you are against SMACC. Because of such persons SMACC has a problem to survive. If all supported SMACC there would be no problem. But there are persons like you, Astral, who think that SMACC does not work and so they sell for extremely low prices. There will always be such persons but the number of them will lower with increasing time. Try it and you will see SMACC works. There isn't always a person that sells for lower prices than you! It's only a bad trial to excuse that you're against SMACC!

Greetings Juliana

(Edited by Juliana at 10:57 pm on May 31, 2002)

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Sat Jun 01, 2002 6:17 am

I know I am against SMACC, and so is about 95% of Illarion.

Juliana · Post by **Juliana** » Sat Jun 01, 2002 7:55 am

I think that's not alright. Already some new players join SMACC how I can report from own experience. And always when I'm in Illarion I see people selling for SMACC. So the percentage of people against SMACC is much lower.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Sat Jun 01, 2002 2:46 pm

Indeed, i rarely saw people selling for low prices in the last time.

Kolderon · Post by **Kolderon** » Sat Jun 01, 2002 3:10 pm

Astral might be right, if you count every single person in illarion, including people that sell to the merchant, or don't sell items, and just don't care because they don't buy or sell.. But those people aren't the ones that really matter to SMACC.