Of course all peoples helped to dig Silverbrand free, there weren't just dwarves buried down there. It was the Trolls Bane government too, it was the elder of the elves, Damien, and the government of Greensbriar. Of course all towns helped. So they helped not just dwarves, but their own government, and their allies in times of war, their allies against Darlok and the north.
And you call Silverbrand greedy? Yes, Silverbrand won't allow peoples to enter without permission, but it isn't Silverbrand who take the taxes for entering, its Varshikar. So who is greedy now?
And Vanima too sell their tolls just to elven speaking peoples. If you want tools for carving, you need an elven friend who is willing to help you. Same with dwarves, just that dwarves are not so fast and so easy with cheating their own peoples.
Every friend of Silverbrand is welcome and allowed to enter their town. The gates are just there because there are not just friends out there. Silverbrand don't refusae any friend entrance to their town. But Varshikar wan'ts money from their friends who enters their land. Very nice, isn't it?
Galim
Varshikar
Moderator: Gamemasters
In order to enter Silverbrand, you need a dwarf present, in order to enter Varshikar freely, you need to have a Varshikari friend, we tax trespassers, who are there without permission, because we do not have the convinence of a wall around our lands, I believe the penalty for an outside who has snuck into Silverbrand was death.
Alexandra
Alexandra
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Galim
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If people have reason to travel the lands they can write to myself or another to request permission for rights of trade or for the various other reasons in which they wish to travel.
No, do be able to entrance your land you have to write to Aristeaus or someone other, have to wait and need a good reason for it. Is friendship reason enough? Does a friend needs everytime he wants to come up there an allowness through letters?
So it is not possible for someone without bad thoughts for you, someone who comes with good will and as a friend, to enter your land without having a long process of asking for allowness and to justifie his wish to visit you. It is not possible to come to your land and ask "May I come in", no. In Silverbrand this is, for a friend, possible.
And just to inform you, as you said, the penalty happens to peoples who "sneak" in. Noone with good thoughts would sneak into a land. so the penalty is right.
oh, and before I forget, you also demand taxes from peoples who come to the desert. You want peoples to pay, or ask friendly, to enter a hot, sandy area where noone can life and where the only valuable thing is sand, which exists there in infinity form. Is that right?
Galim
No, do be able to entrance your land you have to write to Aristeaus or someone other, have to wait and need a good reason for it. Is friendship reason enough? Does a friend needs everytime he wants to come up there an allowness through letters?
So it is not possible for someone without bad thoughts for you, someone who comes with good will and as a friend, to enter your land without having a long process of asking for allowness and to justifie his wish to visit you. It is not possible to come to your land and ask "May I come in", no. In Silverbrand this is, for a friend, possible.
And just to inform you, as you said, the penalty happens to peoples who "sneak" in. Noone with good thoughts would sneak into a land. so the penalty is right.
oh, and before I forget, you also demand taxes from peoples who come to the desert. You want peoples to pay, or ask friendly, to enter a hot, sandy area where noone can life and where the only valuable thing is sand, which exists there in infinity form. Is that right?
Galim
Last edited by Galim on Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
once again everyone is missing the point and Galim please refrain from writing any further, there will be a tme when you can voice your veiws to everyone without the need for such verbal florishings, until then i simply ask you hold your pen and your anger away from these parchments, you do nothing more then continue to instagate a conflict which we work to quell.
Athian Corulas
Athian Corulas
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Galim
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sand, that exists there in infinity form. Sand, which can't mean any loss for you when taken. But what were the reasons of Aristeaus to make taxes?
If people travelled the land freely without contributing to the land, they would extinguish the resources in which we have and in so doing weaken us
I disbelief that this ever will happen to the desert. But you want allowness and taxes from the peoples who need sand. Of a land on which you can't claim any rights. That is pure greed, Alexandra. Nothing else.
So your town demand claim on a land area you don't have claim on, the desert, and demand money from peoples who want to get the sand which can be gathered just there. I can't remember that Trolls Bane demand taxes or allowness from peoples who want to get wood from the forrests, or meat from the pigs.
Athian, there is no anger, I am just curious about your reasons and your rights to do what you do. May I ask, have I to pay taxes when I want to visit Varshikar?
Galim
If people travelled the land freely without contributing to the land, they would extinguish the resources in which we have and in so doing weaken us
I disbelief that this ever will happen to the desert. But you want allowness and taxes from the peoples who need sand. Of a land on which you can't claim any rights. That is pure greed, Alexandra. Nothing else.
So your town demand claim on a land area you don't have claim on, the desert, and demand money from peoples who want to get the sand which can be gathered just there. I can't remember that Trolls Bane demand taxes or allowness from peoples who want to get wood from the forrests, or meat from the pigs.
Athian, there is no anger, I am just curious about your reasons and your rights to do what you do. May I ask, have I to pay taxes when I want to visit Varshikar?
Galim
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Moskher Heszche
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I see Galim owes us tax money.
Fooser,
You misunderstand some things, I feel. We should speak together in private. I feel we can clear some things up and end the hostility as I've tried to do with others.
To the rest of you,
Work with me, and I will treat you like gold. Work against me, and I will treat you much differently. As it has been mentioned, I have been accomplishing things. I have also mentioned that I cannot do it alone! How dare any of you say that I have been trying to do a one-man repair on the city!
You are obviously too simple-minded, arrogant, and entrenched in your own lives to do anything. You may have seen success in the past, but it has ended. You have all reached a dead end and I show you where the path to progress lies. What I get is that Athian doesn't trust me. Too bad, Athian. I don't trust you, either. Who cares?
You obviously fear me on top of not trusting me. Or else you would be ready to help me rebuild the city.
For now, it is myself, Jeremy, andAristeaus alone who are willing to work. The rest of you have allowed yourselves to become irrelevent.
Moskher of Varshikar
Fooser,
You misunderstand some things, I feel. We should speak together in private. I feel we can clear some things up and end the hostility as I've tried to do with others.
To the rest of you,
Work with me, and I will treat you like gold. Work against me, and I will treat you much differently. As it has been mentioned, I have been accomplishing things. I have also mentioned that I cannot do it alone! How dare any of you say that I have been trying to do a one-man repair on the city!
You are obviously too simple-minded, arrogant, and entrenched in your own lives to do anything. You may have seen success in the past, but it has ended. You have all reached a dead end and I show you where the path to progress lies. What I get is that Athian doesn't trust me. Too bad, Athian. I don't trust you, either. Who cares?
You obviously fear me on top of not trusting me. Or else you would be ready to help me rebuild the city.
For now, it is myself, Jeremy, andAristeaus alone who are willing to work. The rest of you have allowed yourselves to become irrelevent.
Moskher of Varshikar
Moskher
You speak beyond yourself. You treat people as i deem fit. Nothing more nothing less.
Galim your arguement is weak old friend.
Athian your concern is ill founded but i listen to your council as allways.
Alexandra i think you see the way of the tax, and that it is not a excuse for war, but a fair asking for those who wish to travel our lands for mischief, as those who travel under good principles need but write.
Ari§teaus
You speak beyond yourself. You treat people as i deem fit. Nothing more nothing less.
Galim your arguement is weak old friend.
Athian your concern is ill founded but i listen to your council as allways.
Alexandra i think you see the way of the tax, and that it is not a excuse for war, but a fair asking for those who wish to travel our lands for mischief, as those who travel under good principles need but write.
Ari§teaus
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Alsyth Astha
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Moskher Heszche
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i think you said this yourself Moskhar, do not contradict your own words, your so busy looking only at what you do that you see nothing anyone else does. Arist and you anf Jeremy can set all the policies you like but that is not tangable work, and as to tangable work, last i checked Stephen and Jeremy and myself bought the sheep for our land, it may be small but it's a step in the right direction, and all you do is belittle others efforts, again you are proving that you care nothing for the people just the political seat on which Varshikar stands. and brother you are the one who is blind to everything around you to swallowed in your attempts to drive your mind from your past griefs to think clearly, there was a time when i and many others felt that this Varshikar was an ill omen, and they sent me and some who will remain unnamed to destroy it.Moskher Heszche wrote:Those were the only laws that were changed. All else that happened was my one-man reconstruction of Varshikar. Is that a change in law or is that a favor?
It is nigh impossible that I will regret anything.
Moskher of Varshikar
What little hope a saw in it and my trust in you when might i remind you you had NO RIGHT TOO stayed the hand of a force that, you had only seen the tip of, Fooser is not and was not the only person who mistrusted you, but overtime you have gained some semblance of respect from our people but at the time they need you most, you stick to your shadows and pass laws down through your parroting Advisor, never sharing your mind or your feelings. At this point and time i chose no longer to hear your voice in these matters, for now i will listen to your lady, who obvisouly in spite of everything that has happened to her still finds the strenght to adress these problems in earnest, for that she has my unweilding respect, as to you, i say this dear brother, come out and speak to your people, to everyone so that we can understand your ill reasoning and see it form your view, until you do you are no leader, just a mere figure head.
As to my wife Alexandra, as any good companion does, she voices her concerns and her views and though they are opposed to my own it is becuase of this contrast that i am able to tolerate and understand the points in this logic that i find appalling is one of few reason is still put up with this nonsense. but i say again the time for all this is not now, we should be building our town not tearing at it's peoples enough is enough
Athian Corulas
Ambassador of Varshikar
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Adano Eles
- Posts: 2436
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- Location: Eiris sazun idisi, sazun hera duoder...
I understand your intentions, however I fear the tone of your proclamation has resulted in many misunderstandings.
When I first read it, it sounded to me like a threat. As if you were trying to cease all relations and enforce the tax to keep everyone out who is not one of you. It, indeed, made memories of darker times awake inside me.
Your land was built on the ashes of Darloks reign, and people tend to forget the good things quickly and remember the bad for a long time.
I fear even though your state does not share much more with Northerot then the location people will project Darloks deeds at you.
You are in a difficult situation, a situation where diplomacy is most important.
I will give you this advice, avoid the agressive tone which unfortunately was governing your recent proclamation, as it will only cause people to see Darloks legacy speaking.
I wish you good luck in the further developement of your kingdom. And I wish good relations between all of our territories. We are living on one island, under one sun, as the children of the same Gods.
Adano Eles
Student of the Khana Len; Apprentice of the Great Temple of the Five and Eleven
Noble Knight and Instructor of Squires of the Grey Rose
When I first read it, it sounded to me like a threat. As if you were trying to cease all relations and enforce the tax to keep everyone out who is not one of you. It, indeed, made memories of darker times awake inside me.
Your land was built on the ashes of Darloks reign, and people tend to forget the good things quickly and remember the bad for a long time.
I fear even though your state does not share much more with Northerot then the location people will project Darloks deeds at you.
You are in a difficult situation, a situation where diplomacy is most important.
I will give you this advice, avoid the agressive tone which unfortunately was governing your recent proclamation, as it will only cause people to see Darloks legacy speaking.
I wish you good luck in the further developement of your kingdom. And I wish good relations between all of our territories. We are living on one island, under one sun, as the children of the same Gods.
Adano Eles
Student of the Khana Len; Apprentice of the Great Temple of the Five and Eleven
Noble Knight and Instructor of Squires of the Grey Rose
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Moskher Heszche
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- Location: You can never be too stupid or too pretty to be a puppet king.
Now, have I gone too far, my Lord? Or have I revealed a truth that laid hidden?
You bought some sheep? I rebuilt the pen. I summoned trees from the very ground. I started rebuilding alone, because no one will help me. Help me rebuild the city. That is all that I have been asking of you, Athian.
Moskher of Varshikar
You bought some sheep? I rebuilt the pen. I summoned trees from the very ground. I started rebuilding alone, because no one will help me. Help me rebuild the city. That is all that I have been asking of you, Athian.
Moskher of Varshikar
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Alsyth Astha
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Jeremy Gems Willowbrook
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For the record I am a loyal citizen of Varshikar. Nothing more. I do not make laws, policy or anything else. I do not have the power to do so. I give my opinion when it is asked for or I feel it would be beneficial.
Aagoth my opinions are my own, do not put words in my mouth. I have not stated an opinion on the laws or policies of Varshikar. Simply put they are the laws and policies of the land. They should be obeyed until they are revised or changed. Such revision is the province of the Government and will be dealt with by due process. And hopefully, from this time forwards, in private not on a public board.
As to the tax, as my memory serves me this has been in place for a long time. The way it worked before was that friends of Varshikar were allowed to pass without paying the tax. They asked for or were given this right for life, unless or until such time as they caused it to be revoked. (By breaking a law for example). They did not have to ask every time they wanted to visit. Certain groups were give the right as a whole, meaning individuals did not need to apply for the right personally. Basically the right to pass was granted to anyone who had legitimate business or reason to enter the land. People who merely wanted to rape our resources or use or abuse our lands without giving anything back were not welcome. It is those people the tax was aimed at. I believe this is still the intention and purpose of the tax.
As I see this our resources are all we have. We have to protect them. Our resources are our only means of attaining any wealth. We cannot afford to let people just take from us or we will not be able to sell our resources to make coin. Coin which is needed to build our home and buy things we do not have in abundance. Would you let a stranger into your home to take your posessions, your food, your money, your means of providing for your family? Would Silverbrand open its doors to a stranger, let them take what they wanted and let them leave without asking for payment? The Farmers Union did not let non members use its land without paying. Greenbriar got upset when people who did not live there cut their trees or used their land or buildings. We do nothing different to this. We protect the resources that are our means of survival. Nothing more.
Jeremy
Aagoth my opinions are my own, do not put words in my mouth. I have not stated an opinion on the laws or policies of Varshikar. Simply put they are the laws and policies of the land. They should be obeyed until they are revised or changed. Such revision is the province of the Government and will be dealt with by due process. And hopefully, from this time forwards, in private not on a public board.
As to the tax, as my memory serves me this has been in place for a long time. The way it worked before was that friends of Varshikar were allowed to pass without paying the tax. They asked for or were given this right for life, unless or until such time as they caused it to be revoked. (By breaking a law for example). They did not have to ask every time they wanted to visit. Certain groups were give the right as a whole, meaning individuals did not need to apply for the right personally. Basically the right to pass was granted to anyone who had legitimate business or reason to enter the land. People who merely wanted to rape our resources or use or abuse our lands without giving anything back were not welcome. It is those people the tax was aimed at. I believe this is still the intention and purpose of the tax.
As I see this our resources are all we have. We have to protect them. Our resources are our only means of attaining any wealth. We cannot afford to let people just take from us or we will not be able to sell our resources to make coin. Coin which is needed to build our home and buy things we do not have in abundance. Would you let a stranger into your home to take your posessions, your food, your money, your means of providing for your family? Would Silverbrand open its doors to a stranger, let them take what they wanted and let them leave without asking for payment? The Farmers Union did not let non members use its land without paying. Greenbriar got upset when people who did not live there cut their trees or used their land or buildings. We do nothing different to this. We protect the resources that are our means of survival. Nothing more.
Jeremy
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Jeremy Gems Willowbrook
- Posts: 557
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- Location: Wherever...
Aagoth, I am sure Aristeaus will explain things fully if you meet with him.
For the benefit of others I will answer your questions based on my understanding of how the tax works, which in turn is based on my understanding of how it used to be. To emphasise, this is my personal understanding of the current situation as it stands at the moment.
Firstly if you refuse to pay the tax what do you think will happen? Be sensible. You will be in breach of a law. How you are dealt with after that would be totally dependant on your further actions. If you continue to break the law you will be asked to leave or be 'removed'. In extreme situations you would probably be banned from entering the territory.
Secondly, as I stated earlier, this tax is mostly aimed at individuals. Hopefully other groups or towns, etc will be sensible enough to simply make new agreements with Varshikar.
If you do not have a right to pass (personal or based on another agreement) you will be taxed. If you wish to make use of our resources and facilities on a regular basis either become a citizen or make an agreement with our leaders. Is this really so hard? The agreement, once finalised, will last for life or until the law is changed. Its not as though you have to ask permission every time you want to enter our lands.
I hope this clarifies things a little. If you are still confused, have questions or wish to ask for an agreement please contact one of our leaders. Thank you.
Jeremy
For the benefit of others I will answer your questions based on my understanding of how the tax works, which in turn is based on my understanding of how it used to be. To emphasise, this is my personal understanding of the current situation as it stands at the moment.
Firstly if you refuse to pay the tax what do you think will happen? Be sensible. You will be in breach of a law. How you are dealt with after that would be totally dependant on your further actions. If you continue to break the law you will be asked to leave or be 'removed'. In extreme situations you would probably be banned from entering the territory.
Secondly, as I stated earlier, this tax is mostly aimed at individuals. Hopefully other groups or towns, etc will be sensible enough to simply make new agreements with Varshikar.
If you do not have a right to pass (personal or based on another agreement) you will be taxed. If you wish to make use of our resources and facilities on a regular basis either become a citizen or make an agreement with our leaders. Is this really so hard? The agreement, once finalised, will last for life or until the law is changed. Its not as though you have to ask permission every time you want to enter our lands.
I hope this clarifies things a little. If you are still confused, have questions or wish to ask for an agreement please contact one of our leaders. Thank you.
Jeremy
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Jeremy Gems Willowbrook
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Trollsbane would be perfectly within its rights to do so. However such a tax would be applied to everyone not just Varshikari. Then, of course, we would just negotiate a contract with them and everything would be fine. Which is exactly what everyone can do with Varshikar. It might mean a small cost, a small donation out of the resources taken, etc., but this is hardly going to (pardon the pun) 'tax' anyone greatly.
You have to remember that Varshikar is a new and emerging community and is quite poor and small. We have few resources and few people. In order to grow we need to gain funds. In order to feed our people we need to trade. If people can freely take what few natural resources we have then we have no marketable commodities and no way of trading for things we need.
Trollsbane, on the other hand, has a large number of citizens and resources. It is their choice to tax or not. If they were to impose a tax it might even work in favour of other towns.
Jeremy
You have to remember that Varshikar is a new and emerging community and is quite poor and small. We have few resources and few people. In order to grow we need to gain funds. In order to feed our people we need to trade. If people can freely take what few natural resources we have then we have no marketable commodities and no way of trading for things we need.
Trollsbane, on the other hand, has a large number of citizens and resources. It is their choice to tax or not. If they were to impose a tax it might even work in favour of other towns.
Jeremy
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Jeremy Gems Willowbrook
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Moskher Heszche
- Posts: 338
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 3:32 am
- Location: You can never be too stupid or too pretty to be a puppet king.
By request of Lady Alexandra Corulas, who was not all too excited to have to sleep through the baaing of sheep, I have constructed a new pen on the Southeastern edge of town, away from the Corulas family home, and next to the home that was once mine.
May this be considered an olive branch of peace between her and I.
This pen is much larger, as well, providing for the health of the sheep. It is important to me, however, that we guard this pasture from the ogres, for it is in their nature to horde all things edible.
Now all we need is for someone to shepherd them from one pen to the other. A small but worthy task. One that, no doubt, will be rewarded by more than my thankfulness.
Your Servant,
Moskher of Varshikar
((Please announce or PM me when the sheep are shepherded to the new pen, and I'll have someone change the spawn point then. =D))
May this be considered an olive branch of peace between her and I.
This pen is much larger, as well, providing for the health of the sheep. It is important to me, however, that we guard this pasture from the ogres, for it is in their nature to horde all things edible.
Now all we need is for someone to shepherd them from one pen to the other. A small but worthy task. One that, no doubt, will be rewarded by more than my thankfulness.
Your Servant,
Moskher of Varshikar
((Please announce or PM me when the sheep are shepherded to the new pen, and I'll have someone change the spawn point then. =D))
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Jeremy Gems Willowbrook
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Moskher, I will attend to the sheep as soon as I return to Varshikar, unless someone has already taken the time to do so before I get back.
A small note is added
The sheep have been moved. They seem a little unsettled by the move. A gate of some sort might be in order.
'F' the "undesirable" element we wish to keep from ravaging our lands either will not ask for permission, or will be refused. Therefore they will be taxed if they enter Varshikar. So they will either stay away or help to boost our funds a little.
I suppose it also gives a chance of boosting the population and establishing trade links by making contracts be negotiated.
Jeremy
A small note is added
The sheep have been moved. They seem a little unsettled by the move. A gate of some sort might be in order.
'F' the "undesirable" element we wish to keep from ravaging our lands either will not ask for permission, or will be refused. Therefore they will be taxed if they enter Varshikar. So they will either stay away or help to boost our funds a little.
I suppose it also gives a chance of boosting the population and establishing trade links by making contracts be negotiated.
Jeremy
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Maliss
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:53 pm
- Location: Seeking a prayer that the godless may speak
"a simple parchment with ornate hand writing is pinned below"Careful child your head will be all muddled by the man and you may return with arcane ideas, like peoples rights to make there own laws for there land horrific as that may be. Next you will say things like that it is the business of the citizens to decide. Then no doubt some mob will lynch you.....
If taxes are due for my trespass and both study and use of this rather animated "publication". All debts in time all dues in service..
As I am so I remain
M.M
If taxes are due for my trespass and both study and use of this rather animated "publication". All debts in time all dues in service..
As I am so I remain
M.M