Pushing Speed

Turonga Mudwater · Post by **Turonga Mudwater** » Mon May 30, 2005 5:12 am

I could not find the other post about pushing speed so I created another.

I definetely feel that the pushing speed needs to be increased, not so much for the pushing yourself along thing, but so you dont get stuck.

I was fightinging mummies to get a bit of insides, they quickly swarmed around me blocking my way out, when I try to push them, the move back to there spot before I can get out because of the immense pause that takes place after you push someone. Im currently still trapped down there trying to escape (I had to log to even have a fair chance.) I don't feel its necessary to escape monsters or anyhting, even though the speed is up they're pretty easy to escape from, nor to push yourself, but I do think it needs to be fast enough to allow you to move before the pushed person moves.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Mon May 30, 2005 6:01 am

Mummies swarm, its what they do. Stay close to the ladder, if there are too many switch to dagger and kill the one standing on the ladder and because daggers have a tiny delay you will escape. Making pushing slower than walking would result in people "jumping" across the map like the old days. Pushing is not the answer with this problem you encountered. If you had 8 mummies swinging at you I don't think you could do anything very easily in the first place.

Ezor Edwickton · Post by **Ezor Edwickton** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:19 pm

Pushing speed definately needs to be speed up.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:14 am

Ezor Edwickton wrote:Pushing speed definately needs to be speed up.

Posting and You! wrote:If you have an opinion, back it up with reasons.

Now, I agree it needs to be sped up, because currently this is the only way to solve the targetting bug, and could mean life or death to someone. Like 2 seconds would be reasonable I think, it seems like its about 4-5 right now.

The-Puppeteer · Post by **The-Puppeteer** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:42 pm

Well how about moving to the spot the person you pushed was before...
Because when you think about it, you actually need to tackle a mummie onto the ground to get him out of your way. Because if it is about life and death and a mummy is covering the ladder, you just go straight forward and tackle it to the ground and run upp the ladder...

Also, why don't you land on the ladder title when you climb down it? At the moment it's very hard to block the ladder entrance which in real-life shouldn't be that hard.. Im mean there should actually only be one way to climb it.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:01 pm

IMHO.. pushing speed should be relative to the person's size...

Halflings should be easy to move, while giant demons should take at least a few seconds....[if possible]

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:03 pm

Then go and come up with a table describing how size/weight would affect pushing speed. Please use many figures.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:04 pm

a table??? just use an equation::

Time =(weight/10)- Strength

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:08 pm

I'm sorry, but to balance it correctly a formula would need to be just a little more complicated and precise.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:10 pm

The-Puppeteer wrote:Also, why don't you land on the ladder title when you climb down it? At the moment it's very hard to block the ladder entrance which in real-life shouldn't be that hard.. Im mean there should actually only be one way to climb it.

Infinate loop of going up and down the ladder would be my guess.

Cassandra Fjurin · Post by **Cassandra Fjurin** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:26 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:a table??? just use an equation::

Time =(weight/10)- Strength

I like the basic of the idea. I think there should also included the strength of the other char, and some weights shouldn't be pushable.
The problem was always that some players can beat monsters because pushing them out of the attack zone and attack with long axes. That was the reason for slowing down pushing. So an enemy can reach the pusher and attack before it can be pushed again.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:29 pm

Suggestion;;;

Make pushing only avalable for those who are empty handed... so you wont use the long-axes

Erart Ridoc · Post by **Erart Ridoc** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:31 pm

Terrible suggestion for obvious reasons, I could push you with the pole of the long axe

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:33 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:Make pushing only avalable for those who are empty handed... so you wont use the long-axes

I'd say, for the sake of realism: one empty hand would suffice, but would probably reduce the pushing strength (halve it). (I can picture a big lunk of a lizardman pushing a halfling back with an empty hand, but I can't see the weakly little human pushing an ogre back a few feet.)

Erart Ridoc wrote:Terrible suggestion for obvious reasons, I could push you with the pole of the long axe

A running start would probably give you some extra edge, although I can't see that sort of factor working too soon (from the point of view of coding), I wouldn't mind such things playing their role in the matters.

Also, if you have both hands occupied, well, your strength modifier to pushing could be reduced, depending on your skill with the weapon or just generally Concussion weapon skill. Or, probably even better, if it's attempted with an empty hand or both hands occupied, that Dexterity has its play in matters too.

I don't see why that's a terrible suggestion.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:52 pm

Cassandra, no good idea. Many of the older characters in the new game has NO weight, because that wasn't implented in the creating when the player created their charas. noone of my charas has a weight. just one of "0"

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:41 pm

This could easily be arranged... the weight would have to be added...

You cant push a person with an axe, if you do so; it will propably get knocked out of your hand...

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:47 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:...if you do so; it will propably get knocked out of your hand...

Depends. For a klutz, maybe. Someone who is of fairly good hand-eye-coordination might be able to keep it in hand. Or is it linked to skill? Or both? You tell me. Just still considering that you'd still have chances at failing at pushing, too. Pushing a mummy should be possible for a decent fighter, but pushing an ogre is ,,pushing it''. Remove "puing" from the last phrase in quotation marks and you get what kind of absurdities I've witnessed in roleplaying.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:44 pm

Immagine someone is trying to push you wish a pole... (as was the suggestion); i dont think it is that hard for you to pull him back, or knock it out...

And if we are talking really LARGE creatures, i think that it could easily force it out of your hand, poking him is one thing, pushing him is impossible...

I would immagine pushing someone with your weapon requires the SKILL... apart from the strenght, and quite limited... you are NOT going to push someone with a sword... maybe a blunt weapon

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:35 pm

I would rather see pushing speeds slowed right down so they are no longer a combat factor at all. Again this is a click and drag type skill that has no place "in essence" in illarion. It is equivelant to haveing a dodge skill if you wiggle your mouse really quickly and have a better ping to server.
What I would rather see is a system were by criticals either stun or knock back an opponent. Currently all I use the push system for is getting past obsticles and on occasion squeezeing past a mummy when they have an 8 on 1 pile on happening. Even with an appauling connection if i shove an ogre back and myself back in quick enough time I can lay two "free" hits.
We allready have a dodge skill that is "supposedly" calculateing body checks,sidesteps etc
Supposedly as I have never really managed to train dodge and dont know what it "really" does so I assume.
But why do we need to create a better click and pull exploit ?
Just my view
Brian

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:57 pm

Pendar, it is necesarry to solve the targetting bug to push yourself, this is the one and only reason I want it made faster.

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:04 am

AHA! yes i have expierenced that as well. I had assumed the actual bug would be fixed in time though...bear in mind i dont program much so often the proportions of a problem are lost on me. Seemed easier to fix the targeting bug than modify the pushing system.

Although it was happening to me a lot at the bandits yesterday and seemed mostly to happen with the unarmed ones/ones who had rusty weapons?. Any way seemed perhaps some change had been made as didnt have to much trouble.
Brian

Aagoth · Post by **Aagoth** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:06 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote: you are NOT going to push someone with a sword... maybe a blunt weapon

You could push someone with your sword. You could use the Hilt, or turn the sword broad side and shove. So pushing with a weapon should be allowed if that is implemented. Becuase if you really think, you can use a weapon for pushing. No matter which weapon.

Just my point of Veiw.

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:12 pm

I think so too. It's difficult, but it's possible. Not that every Joe could do it, but it might be possible to push someone like that. Just think of a famous "flick of the wrist", where you take the blade flatside against your forearm. That offers alot of possibilities to pummel somebody. Well, given that you have the skill or coordination and physical mobility. So much for suggestions on roleplaying or possible modifications.

Aagoth · Post by **Aagoth** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:24 pm

Yea, thered need to be some skill or somthing involed to keep it fair.

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:39 pm

Till then, people could roleplay fairly.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:10 pm

But both of those take time... and if someone shows me the lenght of his sword, i would surly hit it across and snap it.... be realistic...

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:37 pm

Pushing actually would seldom be achieved with a blade unless it is a polearm. With most other weapons pushing would be achieved with a shield or shoulder "body check".
Basically the push function was never planned to be used in PVP combat, if it gets occasional use against monsters ~shrugs~. It was meant so we could squeeze past obsticles and move npcs that blocked the path etc
no biggie
Brian

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:31 pm

The problem is, the mummies tend to gather in groups, and cover the ladder... the only way through is either to massacer them... or push them.... neither of which is very effective as of yet...

I agree with pushing with a shield... but NOT with a sword (.. you know how much force you need to push someone, force * distance)

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:37 pm

Just for the files... You can push somebody by pressing the broad side of the sword at his body and pressing your hand against the other end of the blade.
Or you could ram your shoulder into them. Even the shoulder of your sword arm

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:48 pm

1) You risk snapping the sword if it is not strong enough

2) Pushing with your arm... you are fighting, the person is not going to WAIT for you... and how much are you going to push him??? If you do that, i'd suggest you lose strenght due to the momentum...

3) Swords are usually THIN, due to increase the pressure... this makes them very easy to snap if struck across... or used to push...