Arrows are too expensive

Shandariel el Lysanthrai · Tue May 24, 2005 5:44 pm

Hello. I just wanted to suggest that arrows, which eliza sells, should be not so expensive. 5 copper is really alot. Perhaps too much. My elfess is an archer, and she collects herbs and sells them. now, after 4 hours of walking around, collecting herbs and selling them to a npc-trader she earned 15 gold with that. that is enough for 3 arrows! after some hours of work...that is somehow not right, sorry.

when archery is like in the old systhem my elfess will need 100 arrows for her first pig, and later, when she is a little bit better (around novice), perhaps 12. that are 60 gold for every pig you want to kill (and yes, you have to kill pigs, because there is no other way to get better in archery). for that 60 gold i have to walk around for many hours.

i know i could buy the arrows by someone else. but after what i heard they are hard to make. one tree for an arrow, than yarn for it...that sounds like they will be more expensive than elizas arrows

Thalodos Artemetus · Post by **Thalodos Artemetus** » Tue May 24, 2005 5:58 pm

Join my campaign, moan until they change it back

You are right though and i'm sure it will be changed soon. eh? gms?

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Tue May 24, 2005 9:46 pm

As martin said around here somewhere, its not a top priority. This is known, it will just take time like many other things. From context clues I gather they meant to make the number of arrows like the old system.

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Tue May 24, 2005 9:48 pm

There will be a change in producing arrows in the future.

Aristeaus · Post by **Aristeaus** » Wed May 25, 2005 3:24 pm

Be glad that you can buy arrows. You used to have to craft them. And if they are in demand for, the merchants have every right to rip you off. Well it is what i would do

Supply and Demand peeps. Get used to it.

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Thu May 26, 2005 8:19 am

When I think pig slaughtering, I think arrows. I remember the good ol' days on the farm when we go out and slaughter up some pigs, with the bows and arrows, of course. Nothing keeps that meat in good condition like arrows, grandpa always said.

Sometimes we'd have a barbeque and just use the arrows that punctured the pigs in so many places as spits. Mmmm mmmm. Them's were the days.

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Thu May 26, 2005 8:51 am

Do I smell sarcasm?

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Thu May 26, 2005 2:15 pm

Nope, it's literally dripping from the ceiling.

Seriously, when was the last time we discussed how to properly kill pigs? Hammers are a no-no. Arrows the same. Big, vicious cleavers is obviously the way to go! Fast, brutal, and little to no suffering for those poor piggies. >le sigh< Some people are so cruel to animals, and never learn.

Disclaimer: No real animals were harmed in the process of making or playing this game.

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Thu May 26, 2005 2:19 pm

I would use paper. Make small papercuts, and let them suffer long and hard.

or you could take a hammer and bash their skulls in. Quick, painless, and bloody.

Shandariel el Lysanthrai · Fri May 27, 2005 1:31 pm

*pouts* thats not fair! No need to answer with sarcasm *sniff*.

There is no other way for archers to get better in the first time than pigs or sheeps

. Mummies are too many, too strong. Flys...forget it with arrows. So don't be mean

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Fri May 27, 2005 1:36 pm

Shandariel el Lysanthrai wrote:There is no other way for archers to get better in the first time than pigs or sheeps . Mummies are too many, too strong. Flys...forget it with arrows. So don't be mean

Pah, nonsense. There are bandits too, and nobody will miss them. Sharpshooting defenseless pigs and sheep is pure cruelty! I can't wait to see first animal activists in Illarion who make such people's in-game lives hard.

Besides, nobody has ever played a butcher.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Fri May 27, 2005 1:40 pm

The problem with bandits is, as far as I know, that they may hit hard, even more hard than mummies. And to run away from them is, well, often difficult. I don't think that an archer may be able to handle them in melee fight. Not until he reached a better skill in his archery. I think this is what she meant.

Archers are not skilled or useable for melee fights. Thats because they are archer

. Would be nice to have some targets for archers which work like pigs or other "critters". of course they won't stay forever, after some arrows it would be destroyed. Carpenters could make them. Out of wood, yarn, leather and maybe grain (as straw).

See, melee you really can just learn while fighting or training with others. But archery can be learn by shooting at targets. They don't have to be critters. Of course after a special skill they HAVE to train with moving targets. But it would help in the beginning.

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Fri May 27, 2005 2:03 pm

Agreed on the issues at hand, a bunch of changes are needed, but on the first page it already says some are on the way. Some animal game for hunters would be a nice thing anyway (just some deer in the forest would be a nice start), or static wooden target stands for practicing archery. Also better balancing of how many arrows can be produced from a log is probably going to change. The prices from the NPC vendor, well, they're high, but I suppose you could run better deals with a player-character fletcher.

Still, I believe I have some points too. I'm actually not only being sarcastic, there's more to it. Isn't the math about skill gain, # of pig-attacks, money, "game logic", with which the character doesn't waste a thought about? I don't know if the character Shandariel is the same as she was before the wipe (as in, character), or if she changed or is playing a different character, but at any rate I just have a hard time imagining the Shandariel I used to know shooting pigs and other little animals which serve for other purposes (RP-wise). Which leads me to other points. Going to fight dangerous foes like mummies or bandits can be done in a group, for example taking some buddies (who are decent in melee) nearly eliminates the danger. Furthermore, there's something called patience.

I have two (melee) fighter characters, one of them has had only 3 fights (killed three bandit npcs, excluding one session of sparring) in total from about 4 hours total game time with that character. Just because there is a skill cap it doesn't mean you have to reach it every time you log in.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sat May 28, 2005 6:23 pm

IMO, arrows should cause much more damage than they currently do. They're arrows. I think only three or four shots should kill somebody, with the chance of hitting very low for the unskilled and better for the skilled.

The way it currently is, an archer will lose against a melee opponent because all they have to do is close the gap and tear 'em up.

People would say that combat would be unbalanced, everybody carrying a bow. I don't think so though. It isn't smart to pick a full frontal fight with an archer anyway, considering he has the distance and you don't. That would give more reason for the element of surprise to come into play (sneaking up on him).

There's also three things an archer must have to be good at shooting:

-Decent Perception
-Skill
-The means to pay for the arrows

For the same reason somebody holding a gun would down a guy holding a knife, or club or something.

For the same reason soldiers in old wars used archers to kill from a distance before the remaining troops got to the front lines.

Also, is it possible for the attacking of archers to just "cease" as soon as they come in hand to hand contact with the melee fighter? It's pretty hard to fire an arrow at somebody that's close enough to touch you.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sat May 28, 2005 11:32 pm

Ever tried to shoot someone with a bow and arrow who is carrying a decent sized shield at range? Its not easy a tower shield would block almost 100% of arrows. Large shields are almost exclusively used for this purpose, heater and round shields are more for parrying and arrow blocking. This is where romans put throwing spears with soft iron heads into excellent use, they threw them at the opposition's shields and they would get stuck and weight down the shield so they would have to drop the shield or be exposed for a while getting the spear out of their shield. Also shields in the fighting system are still underrated by current fighting, ranged fighting would put these back onto the front lines. All fighters should have at least average perception. Being able to see is important, but you don't need 20 perception to hit something. My balanced attribute elven character hit a pig 3/3 times with 0 ranged skill, and he has average perception.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sat May 28, 2005 11:35 pm

I was making my post under the condition that the fighter wasn't carrying a shield, but one or two handed weapons.

Who knows? Might give fighters a reason to carry shields rather than running in the battle field with the ever famous warhammers or double axes.

The perception doesn't have to be great, but above average for the archers to hit (12+).

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun May 29, 2005 12:04 am

Bloodhearte wrote:The perception doesn't have to be great, but above average for the archers to hit (12+).

If keiken's guide is still true, perception is not the governing attribute. My char only has 10 perception, well both for that matter.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Mon May 30, 2005 2:24 pm

you need perception to be able to hit something.

Perception determines how far away an enemy can be for hitting him. high perception = an enemy can be many fields away. dexterity how good and often you hit. and agility how quick you shoot an arrow after the last one, and strength how much damage your arrow does. high strength = high damage...well, so i think it is.

sorry if a gm thinks that shouldn'T be spread here, but i think it should. someone who want to play an archer should know about this, without having played the game a few month before he sees that he started wrong.

and believe me...an archer with low atributes in the named one will suck =(. range weapons are still unbalanced and insufficient.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Mon May 30, 2005 5:02 pm

Agreed there Galim. Besides, I first thought of perception as the quickness of a reaction, not how far one can see.

If every attribute contributes to everything, why not tell their effect?

Erart Ridoc · Post by **Erart Ridoc** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:37 pm

Back to topic, I suggest the gm's allow 2 arrows to be made per board and thread. Even with just making 2 arrows per it would be a great improvement and actually make it worthwhile to make arrows

Edit

Arrows now have to be sold at Eliza's price or possible higher just to make a profit

Thread - costs 2 coin or 3 coin depending on who you buy it from. Or free if you get your own (Which I as a carpenter would not do because I can barely kill a bandit)

Wood - 2 coin if you buy it but most collect their own

So if you make 2 arrows per you could sell them for 3 coin or 4, and be making if you buy everything and sell it it for 3 coin each a 2 coin profit, if you sell them for 4 coin each a 4 coin profit. That would make it very worthwhile.

Devrah Liioness · Post by **Devrah Liioness** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:45 pm

Is the thread you get from spinning wool different from the thread you need to make arrows?

Erart Ridoc · Post by **Erart Ridoc** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:46 pm

Thread comes from insides.

Spinned wool is yarn I believe

Quinasa · Post by **Quinasa** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:06 pm

Spun wool is yarn for making cloth.

The rest you should find out in game.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:05 pm

Why do arrows need thread???? Why cant they be made of feathers instead?

IMHO In order to make the archer more worthwhile, s/he should be able to block the person from walking, ie fire at his legs [in real life] or try spells... anyway, i lone archer is pretty much useless, as in real life [none of the LOTR esegeration]

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:19 pm

Archers are a support class, archers always carry a melee weapon just in case. They are not meant to be loners. Hunters well there isn't really anything to hunt right now.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:56 pm

The only irony is that the best bowmen are the elves, and they will refuse to hunt....

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:06 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:The only irony is that the best bowmen are the elves, and they will refuse to hunt....

STOP THE SAND EATING. Elves hunt deer to feed them and their families, use the skin to make cloths and armor, and the other parts for whatever. Elves are like Indians, they respect nature, and take only what they need keeping the balance. Please, PLEASE!, stop the sand eating, think of the elven children! Mommy I want food, "you haven't finished your sand dear" #me cries. Sorry to be so rediculous, but elves are not uber-pacifist-animal rights-humanoid rights-vegetarian-activists. Don't beleive me, ask Damien. In fact, if he says otherwise I will personally delete this entire message.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:45 pm

I think respecting nature and the balance means not killing anything at all... [my elven character is a vegetarian]... why sand??? [LOL] what about

Bread
Apples
Elven Wine
Cherries
ect...

RE: String.. why is it made from insides?? real string is made from the wax used in beehives... cant we extract it from there instead (there are a few to the south)

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:01 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:RE: String.. why is it made from insides?? real string is made from the wax used in beehives... cant we extract it from there instead (there are a few to the south)

I'm only guessing the intention was so that fighters who kill mummies for insides do trade with tailors, but this will never work. I agree that that is unlogical, it's even downright silly. I firmly believe this needs to be changed sooner or later, despite some people's emotional binds to a rusty old method of > kill mummies > get insides > make thread from insides.
The problem really is, that tailors as such also tend to be rather good fighters; an odd thing indeed.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:11 pm

I agree that it is illogical, and very against rp

You hear people saying.. hmm i need thread, want to come with me and kill some mummies..? as if they are going shopping...

IMHO thread should be more readily available, and stocked by NPCs.... it would reduce the cost...

RE: fighting tailors, thats probably cos they started as warriors and decided to actually use the insides