Orcs bloody well go flowery.

Turonga Mudwater · Post by **Turonga Mudwater** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:43 am

Thanks, I try

I know for a fact it's quite difficult especcially if your a true human hating orc. Turonga is more of the "you know, I hate humans, but my "lust" for gold is alot more than my hate for humans so I wont totally get my self banned, just piss loads of them off" She's easily persuaded, but smart enough to know that if she runs around killing, she will be cut of from trade which equals cut off from gold.

That about the only reason Turonga can continue, other orcs a sheer anti-human, refuse to trade with, buy from, or talk to, any non orc, for them it's impossible.

The-Puppeteer · Post by **The-Puppeteer** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 pm

Thats the problem, there are close to no orc traders on trollsbane, and the npc traders Eliza and Sam have so horrible prices that life as an orc is REALLY hard. But with all these guards, there is only one way to earn a fair amount of money as a orc and that is by robbing. So you get out of town wait for somebody to robb and then they saw "skrew you!" and log out... Ok this isn't in all cases, but it really is nerv breaking.. But there are other races who are not perfect like elves, I haven't that many of them around that are a bit diffrent from a human! Sure they may shun the orc, but they often to never talk mega complicated, like using finer words and making every hard for an orc to understand. So the orc no longer has a reason to hate the elves unless he hates the humans aswell.

Gabon Corad · Post by **Gabon Corad** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:40 pm

To Ereaes,

"Had"!!!!! do dont have, you had...have you tried in the new system with all the skill and item loss??...if you dont ally then its impossible to get the smithing tools. Smithing used to be everyone could do it if they wanted...now you must have conections with dwarves if you are going to be a smith (for they have the tools) and RP it out, not cheating.

To Gro'bul,
player trades dont work if you are a great murder or thief...with the items breaking, you can be loved one minute to get all your armor and wepons then start killing because eventually you'll have to get more armor and wepons. (unless of course you get them from the people you have killed then all of this is just a wast of my breath

)

The-Puppeteer · Post by **The-Puppeteer** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:55 pm

There is alot in what Gabon says, it is close to impossible to be a total bad guy... you'll need a guild or clan just to keep yourself alive. So at the moment you can't be a robber, unless bussiness goes incredibly well but once the dagger brakes on the pigs, thats when all the problems start. Thats when you have to start acting like a good guy and trade with people you char would normally hate. Ofcourse you could be a thief, but once you get noticed, which probably happens quite often since there arn't many crowds thats when problems start again...

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:00 pm

There is alot in what Gabon says, it is close to impossible to be a total bad guy... you'll need a guild or clan just to keep yourself alive. So at the moment you can't be a robber, unless bussiness goes incredibly well but once the dagger brakes on the pigs, thats when all the problems start. Thats when you have to start acting like a good guy and trade with people you char would normally hate. Ofcourse you could be a thief, but once you get noticed, which probably happens quite often since there arn't many crowds thats when problems start again...

You do not need a dagger to rob. If you get caught stealing, there are ways out. You do not need a guild to survive. There is a haphazard way to pull things off and a much more methodical method.

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:15 pm

The-Puppeteer wrote: So at the moment you can't be a robber

An aspect which I miss in this discussion is the question, why someone want's to be a robber. Which are the reasons, someone became a robber?
A fast way to get to money? Poor without any other possibilities? Pure joy in being evil? ... ?
And I also miss, that someone plays out the way to become, what he is.
Why not starting as normal individium like others, respected in society ... but by time .... something changes ...

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:18 pm

Some reason people become robbers is because it is a change in rp. Without different characters it would be very bland roleplay. I do not mean to tell everyone to make a thief/robber character now, but some players will choose to be them just to experience a new form of roleplay. Lying, stealing, cheating have different styles then a valiant knight or a mercenary. We cannot overlook robbers as some sort of pox on gameplay, unless they the player truly is. Every type of character can be player badly, and every type can be player well.

I do agree that a newer player should start out as a "good" character, or an average joe. They are very fun to roleplay.

The-Puppeteer · Post by **The-Puppeteer** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:21 pm

Pure joy of being evil.
The thing of being good and then evil, doesn't really work, but of course it could aslong as we get more evil smiths and tailors... Maybe i'll start a group, sounds like the best way to be evil at the moment.

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:22 pm

but of course it could aslong as we get more evil smiths and tailors...

There are groups out there already. Although rather young, they have interested but may not come to you first to aid. It all depends on the situation.

Gabon Corad · Post by **Gabon Corad** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:05 pm

we need no more groups for they are easily wiped out...we need more RPers to make "evil" chars to join the ones we have...i know when i played as Grutok i had lots of fun in hte battle and all the broken treatys and raides and expecally when the whole town attack the skull cave and we beat them off (untill the serever froze thanks to Kaja and his ice flames

)

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:26 pm

Cliu Beothach wrote: Some reason people become robbers is because it is a change in rp. Without different characters it would be very bland roleplay.

I agree.
But I didn't meant this. Sure, there is a need of different characters. But nethertheless, it is the story of a character, that makes him interesting. And this counts also for the bad guys.
Have a look at Darlok, the best bad guy. It was his historie, his changes, which made him so fabulous. He once was a good guy, was friend of many, whom later became his enemies. The slow change, one step after the other, irirtating in the first for those, which called him their friend, made his play attractive and deep.
The way, he changed, the way he become, what he was, the way of character development made it fun. And in my opinion, this also counts for the normal robber. Don't have a robber char from beginning, play, how he became, what he should be ... by time. Have a growing history. No bad guy fell from the sky. There are reasons, why he is what he is.

Gabon Corad · Post by **Gabon Corad** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:32 pm

well for people who wernt arround then we cant picture this...why not the GMs who were here or one of the old players who know of his greatness follow his path and let the new players learn...i myself was not here for that great time so i do not know eather...just an idea

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 10:57 pm

Aragon, I agree with development. My thief started as thief but has progress to more. You do not have to start out good to become bad.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:56 am

we need no more groups for they are easily wiped out...we need more RPers to make "evil" chars to join the ones we have...

NO! We don't need more evil characters. We just need a few good PLAYED (just for you martin) ones. Thats a different. with a dozen evil characters running around the game will go to hell. it just will become boring and annoying. Especially if they aren't played well in their role.

not more evil, just a few good roleplayed ones, that it is.

martin · Post by **martin** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:02 am

@Galim:
Your posting is only comprehendable if one has an infinite amount of fantasy. You mix together "good" and "well played" and "evil", whatever comes out, noone will ever know what you meant.

Whatever you did mean, I think I object.

Martin

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:19 am

i changed my posting, you understand it now?

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:58 am

We just don't need evil characters, but shady ones.
People who don't obey the law word by word aren't automatically evil.

The-Puppeteer · Post by **The-Puppeteer** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:40 am

Oh, so you say capturing trollsbane and turning it to do your every whim is a bad thing?

Has trollsbane ever been ruled by an bunch of outcasts? Or a clan of orcs? Or even just by an dictator?

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:43 am

Has trollsbane ever been ruled by an bunch of outcasts? Or a clan of orcs? Or even just by an dictator?

Many of the enemys of trolls bane would say that this fits perfectly on Lyrenzia <_<

The-Puppeteer · Post by **The-Puppeteer** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:57 am

Ah yes but they have never really done anything really evil now have they?

If trollsbane was captured, then maybe it would be a bit hard for the newbs that enter the world but the roleplay of the hard time would be intresting

High Taxes! Hard labour!
Groups building up to retake the town and then from nowhere comes a hero and frees everybody

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:01 am

So make it happen lol.
I am not even being flipant but you know the guard and grey rose are entirely un GM supported.
The fact that trollsbane "always" wins is purely a form of popular opinion more people enjoy playing along with the town than against it at least long term.
I dont believe that gms would step in with characters to kill or remove you if you took the town.
Holding it may be a bit of a problem mind you,
Simple fact is playing a villan of any substance is a HUGE amount of work for a character that will be crucified in the end.
hence so few really major villans,
Brian

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:59 pm

Galim wrote:
Has trollsbane ever been ruled by an bunch of outcasts? Or a clan of orcs? Or even just by an dictator?
Many of the enemys of trolls bane would say that this fits perfectly on Lyrenzia <_<

Absolutely

Kaja Wolfagen · Post by **Kaja Wolfagen** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:17 pm

My role model since I began the game was Darlok. I like to think Kaja brought some interesting factors to the game as a not so charming orc. Everyone who wishes to play a villain has to be willing to let them die, and willing to make sacrifaces.
You wont be able to play the game as you would a normal char. You wont be able to walk around and interact on a daily basis. You wont be able to sit around and learn a trade. Your sole roleplaying experience will be built around interacting with the shall we say goodguys. And making their experience enjoyable. In a way you are playing a character whos sole purpose at the end of the day is to die. But the accomplishments and the legacy you make in this time is what makes the task truly deserving.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:38 pm

I disagree, Kaja, Darlok rarely died. he did sit and talk but with his followers. and i think he had a trade other then fighting.

Kaja Wolfagen · Post by **Kaja Wolfagen** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:05 pm

Before he went to the ‘ darkside ‘ he had a trade yes my friend. As did Kaja. But once he took the lands of Northerot his normal days of roleplay were over. We should get his own opinion. Darlok wake up and answer this thread. Or I shall be forced to post the Darlok picture again.

Kaja Wolfagen · Post by **Kaja Wolfagen** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:26 pm

To slow....

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:05 pm

Ha hhaha hahah,
funny to picture such an evil character only find him as...that..

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:53 am

You shouldn't make that kind of comparison to Darlok when trying to play a bad guy. The chances of the landscape changing, getting extra powers, or a castle popping up where people care enough to come talk and listen to you, are slim to none. The point is, if you're going to play an openly bad character, such as a pillaging raiding orc, you have to accept that you're not going to be walking around town in broad daylight and making trades and talking with friends etc anymore. If a "regular" orc, who hasn't been openly known for doing brutal acts yet, decides he wants to go into said town, if he has a shred of intelligence, then he realizes he has to behave himself moderately in the town if he doesn't want to be kicked out, just as any other race would realize. So having "well" behaved orcs inside the town is very normal. "Flower-throwing-and-prancing-orcs"? Well maybe that's a little extreme. But as long as they don't jump from one extreme to the other and back overnight, I guess I can live with it for a while.

By the way, you all put too much of an overrated premium for playing "bad guys". It's not playing a certain type of character concept that will make Illarion interesting. Rather, having a certain mix of character concepts which compliment each other is what makes the world turn. You can't just keep adding "spice" to your cooking when you should be working on the meat.

Kaja Wolfagen · Post by **Kaja Wolfagen** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:43 am

Dyluck, this thread is concentrated on orcs, and has moved onto roleplaying villains, in no way does it say roleplaying a villain is better than roleplaying a trader or a hero, just the pros and con's of the area.

Im sure you can give great insight into how to run a mage academy, and im sure many of us look forward to it.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:30 am

Over dependance and belief on using "bad guys" to "spice things up" is not solely a thread observation, but rather a long run trend observation and a by-product comment of mine on the issue of orcs and villains.