Orcs vs. Gaurds: rp gone bad

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Tue May 31, 2005 4:49 pm

um, no. the movement don't overthrew darlok. it was trolls bane and silverbrand which, at the end, overthroew darloks realm. he died on a wound he got the day he attacke dsilverbrand and let the entrance collapse. the movement was just for three days able to overthrew him, before they all get kicked their ass.

believe me, the movement rp was not fun. and their way of rp had not many friends, not under the german players. we were really pissed of by it.

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Tue May 31, 2005 5:37 pm

@Galim: It would still help more to explain your definition of fun to those people who don't understand, rather than quit RPing with them.

I see you've done it somewhat:

1.) villains not met every day/week causing fights, robbing people, pushing people around
2.) people mostly playing "good guys" who meet "evil guys" 2/3 times a week
3.) "evil guys" giving in and losing to the "good guys" when the "good guys" deem it fit

but it's rather insubstantial in my eyes.

The only advice you're giving out to their roleplaying that I can distill from that is this:

1.) they should play the "good guys" more often than the "bad guys" (if they play alot)
2.) they should have more than one character
3.) "evil guys" doing the same thing as the good guys

I think you're whining and perhaps contribute just as much to the lack of fairplay you're complaining about; no offense meant, but this is what I read along the lines of this thread. If you want them to be roleplaying better, please stop immediately with your unfounded complaining and show a log and explain specifically where you disagreed with their RP (and please be decent about it, as you see, I, of all people, am not trying to flame anybody here), or go discuss it on MSN or something.

But the way you're leading this "critique" is doubtful and a waste of space for any outsider to the situation. You "don't want another movement RP"? Here's a good chance to dissect it, show by examples what was wrong about it, and perhaps prevent it in the future for those who read here.

Aristeaus · Post by **Aristeaus** » Tue May 31, 2005 5:41 pm

Some one should really take the thesaurus away from Sian, he may hurt himself

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Tue May 31, 2005 6:37 pm

I don't know any Thesaurus that contains "Movement RP", maybe someone should write one.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Tue May 31, 2005 6:48 pm

movement rp means: attacking town too often, too much, causing problems. playing powergamed characters who just want to win. play unfair when you don't win. ignore others rp. ignore rp situations or happenings which are not positive for your character. come back from cross imediately and fight again. ignore your characters fears, wounds and anything else. just play in first line to walk around and make clouds.

something like that.

there are two things which are important and which i want the others 8yes, the orc players too) should respect.

1. accept that you character can't win every time. roleplay together with others, respect their roleplay and pay attention to it. play along with it (that means do #me's when your characters frees or pushs, and don't ignore other peoples #mes and roleplay). play fair and realistic.

2. if you can't play something right, don't do it. if you can't play a villian without just killing others or without accepting that he may lose or receive sevre blows, don't do it. if your rp isn't fun for others, stop it.

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Tue May 31, 2005 6:50 pm

Thank you. I can agree with that.

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Tue May 31, 2005 7:33 pm

This has for me at least left the case of these specifics orcs and got more general.
Players do need to be aware that currently in game if you commit a drastic crime such as murder, which if we want to stay true to the spirit of the game "sending someone to the cross" is seriouse in my characters eyes.
You will be banned from town being barred acess to town currently means being barred acess to a large portion of the rp going on in game.Returning to town all the time is not going to get you into the rp it is going to get you sent to the cross not because the guard are pkers but because our roles do not allow us to much flexability when dealing with a criminal.
If it wasnt the guard it would be a different guild killing you as the majority of characters playing seem to wish trolls bane to be a relatively PVP free space. I think that is needed as it a wonderful aspect of this game that characters with no combat skills can play enjoy and flourish in it.
So maybe what villans need to be doing right now is looking to form guilds or groups and begin making use of this wonderfully big map. I cant ban you for hanging around looking menaceing in town, you will not be barred acess from town for crimes out side the walls etc etc.
I am not saying go and pk any one found out side of town what i am saying is that the guard is currently more active in game that it has been for a long time. The guard is propably also stronger than it has been for a long time due to everyone haveing similar skills at the moment.
So until the game balances out again to a state more similar to what it was pre-wipe villans are going to have to get a little inventive is all.

Also be aware the challenge and reality of playing a murderouse villan is being exiled from trollsbane and possibly hunted on occasion. As galim said returning to town daily win or lose is not going to win you any points with a large number of us playing.
Brian

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Tue May 31, 2005 8:35 pm

Galim wrote:playing powergamed characters

Galim wrote:before they all get kicked their ass.

Wait a second. How many times did Darlok beat the movement (or "get kicked their ass")? How many times did their plans to attack town fail? But yet they were so powergamed? I wonder what that says about everyone else.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Tue May 31, 2005 8:39 pm

they were powergamed, because they raise up in short time and got beaten by mostly old characters. the most characters of movement were new. but strong. the defenders were often old characters which had a long time to get strong.

you see the difference? and darlok was special. he had special powers as a gm character. and zerbus was...well...an asskicker too, but he also was an old character.

the movement were new characters which grew in a too fast time strong. against older characters which had enough time to grew strong.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Tue May 31, 2005 8:40 pm

A lot of their enemies weren't old though, they must automatically be powergamers as well. I see.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Tue May 31, 2005 8:42 pm

alot of their enemys got beaten alot. it were the old ones who were a problem for them. characters like john, hagen, the rose knights, galim too, and others.

and it was not just guard. it was silverbrand too. fighters like belegi.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Tue May 31, 2005 8:44 pm

Some movement members characters were around longer than Hagen, your reasoning makes no sense at all. Your indicating the people on that side were just as bad, if not worse.

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Tue May 31, 2005 8:55 pm

I reckon one of the reasons I tend to speak against the powergaming rules is not because I want people to be able to powergame, but so players stop accusing eachother of being powergamers. The GMs see all, and it is their job as arbiters of the game and its rules to judge who's a powergamer or not, but technically, nobody else's business.

Katrina · Post by **Katrina** » Tue May 31, 2005 9:59 pm

And Characters on the gaurd side didn't powergame? I can think of a Prime example of powergaming by gaurd.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Tue May 31, 2005 10:04 pm

Katrina wrote:And Characters on the gaurd side didn't powergame? I can think of a Prime example of powergaming by gaurd.

Exactly, but it's all about perception. The higher beings of Illarion tend to view themselves and their friends better than their "enemies".

I applaud every single player who has taken the challenging path at any time. It's a challenge because if you somehow overcome the stiff IC resistance, then comes the stiffer OOC resistance. Usually, that'll kill ya.

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Tue May 31, 2005 10:43 pm

I shall never ever play an evil guy again, if that pleases you. And I shall highly advice other people not to either.

Happy now (whomever feels touched/hurt by what I just said).

Anarchist · Post by **Anarchist** » Tue May 31, 2005 11:07 pm

In reaction to this continuing bitch fest (no offence intended to anyone) I have deleted Cyrus so to all of you who simply feel that there should be no 'Evil' Charecters in the game *Cough* Galim *Cough* There you go. Enjoy your conflict free, eveyone is happy perfect sociaty.
Just as a point when Galim started posting we had only been around for one day really as the villans so it seems like he didnt give us a chance to actually only attack once a week as we hadnt been villans for more than a day (realtime).

P.S. but ya Galim I can see where you are coming from I am not trying to offend you or anything but it just comes across as if you just dont want any bad guys unless they bow to your whim when they meet you. So no hard feelings

.

Lady Arynne · Post by **Lady Arynne** » Tue May 31, 2005 11:10 pm

Oh, come on. Every society needs villains. To me, it seems like the whole thing was just a big misunderstanding, and I don't see why we can't just let it drop and continue playing.

And, by the way, one of my characters was there, and after a brief spell of confusion and ((ooc)) dialogue, I think it cleaned up rather well in the end.

The Night's Own · Post by **The Night's Own** » Tue May 31, 2005 11:14 pm

There's no black and white, only shades of grey.

Too bad about Cyrus, I had plans for him up my sleeve...

Anarchist · Post by **Anarchist** » Tue May 31, 2005 11:25 pm

Ya sorry dudes but i dont want to cause problems if someone was unhappy i was obviously doing something wrong so hay maybe smeother time ill try it again.

Turonga Mudwater · Post by **Turonga Mudwater** » Tue May 31, 2005 11:40 pm

I've more or less stopped listening to certain players, I read there stuff, but don't Follow it. If Galim can refuse to RP with someone, I can refuse to listen eh?

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:12 am

Speaking about powergaming, I have to admit that the number of PG cases is very low these days. Powergaming like some players did in the past is not possible anymore, thanks to the allmighty anti-PG-system.

And, by the way, I see many "grey" chars around these days, very few good guys and even less villains. Most of the chars are no saints and offer opportunities for conflicts without making massacres.

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:16 am

Most are grey because as soon as you dedicate to one side, you become a target of the other, then conflicts and somewhat inevitable arguments errupt from one act of bad roleplay which may only have risen from one player.

Just a theory.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:20 am

Cyrus, i never said that I don't want villians. It seems you never read my postings really. I just said I don't want bad played villians who cause more ooc annoyance than gamefun. Villians are good for a game. As long as they are played the right way.

and I never said that I want villians who bow under my characters. As I wrote I play along with villians, and I play my characters too that they may lose. the whole guard done this in the last time. But I also await that a villian character does the same when the time comes for him. You understood now? That is a complete different thing than you wrote about my "opinion"

next time read the postings first, and think about them. and don't write things about me and my "opinion" which are wrong and never posted by me.

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:14 am

You have to admit, though, Galim, that you tend to be on the defensive in such issues. You get fired up easily about it.

As you are quite aware, I played a villain. I didn't like the whole Movement roleplay either. In fact, I'm quite sure that most people here didn't. I'm also more than aware that many people who played characters that were in the Movement didn't really dig the Movement roleplay--their characters just lead them into it. Even Grant seems to have grown up a lot from what contact I have with him, and he probably would admit that some things got out of hand.

However, the overiding message I keep getting from this thread was that this wasn't Movement roleplay. It was just a mistake. The parties involved--on both sides--have admitted to mistakes. Why are the mistakes of the villains that much greater than the mistakes of the heroes?

Please, Galim, just for my sake, calm down on this. Last time you got angry about this sort of thing you ended up seriously offending me with some comments about Americans.

The Movement isn't around any more. These orcs aren't like the Movement, and I'm sure I can get players that you respect to verify this and say that, in fact, they like the roleplay of the orcs.

It's alright to say, "I don't like what happened here," but anything more seems a bit inflammatory considering that everyone involved already admitted a mistake and apologized.

And that's all I have to say on that,
Aegohl

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:20 am

I think that postings comes a bit late, because the discussion already changed into an other direction.

and my use of "the movement" in my postings was just to use it as a metaphor, a symbol for such behaviour.

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:26 am

It changed in the direction of a player quitting a villain character that is enjoyed by many of the players of the guards, quickdraw. When the guards like this guy's roleplay it's not so questionable, is it?

Hermie wrote:Most are grey because as soon as you dedicate to one side, you become a target of the other, then conflicts and somewhat inevitable arguments errupt from one act of bad roleplay which may only have risen from one player.

Just a theory.

Actually, in my experience villains are more of a threat to other villains than to heroes. Another villain is competition. A hero is to be avoided.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:46 am

he quit because he misunderstood my postings because he didn't read them really. i never said that i wnat the things because of which he quit.