What is wrong with illarion/Was läuft falsch in Illarion

[Gro'bul]

Busy lately. Item loss really turned me off lately, skill was easy to get, not sure if it was made harder or not so skill I didn't really care about. The thing that annoyed me about item loss, was these people who sold me things keep the copper, but my full set of 1000 copper armor dissapears magically. Its just annoying, especially when you can get a few of these things from merchants.

[Erart Ridoc]

I havent gotten any armor at all. And I have to start carrying 6 daggers with me to go fight a bandit or two. Hehehe but that really gave something to rp with my character. A halfling with 4 sheiths with daggers in them, and 2 in his bag, giving flowers out to every lady he comes across almost.

I dont have a problem with the getting skill now because, Now I can see the benifit of carving, instead of having to restart 1228 times from zero. Thank you I assume martin for getting carpentry working properly. If it was somebody else, well just substitute martins name for yours

I think the game has a couple of weeks or months of below average in it. But thats just till everything gets fixed. It I hope will pick up soon

[Aristeaus]

Mainly is due to the time i have to dedicate to the game. And the lack of it. Dont get me wrong, when i can i do go IG. But i like to go IG with a motive and at the currant time, i dont have the time needed to dedicate to this motive.

Another reason which i can see. There is no story taking place at the present time in which the players can dig thier teeth within. No matters of conversation and no plans for the players to work towards apart from earning gold and gaining skill.

[martin]

There are no introduced structures yet. Half of the things you cannot do because of the lack of experienced chars. There's too many "newbies" and no "experts".

I guess once things are running smooth again some players will return.

These are things that really make me feel pissed at.

These things have to grow. And they grow because people play that game. It's like saying "I leave the task of developing IG structures to others, I return when they are finished".

Honestly I feel that we do not need these players. They are not made for Illarion and Illarion wasn't made for them. They need an existing and perfectly finished game with existing, large community. That's nothing Illarion has. They don't want to work for it, well then, Illarion is in development and that affects both, the technical aspect and the in game aspect. They should just leave and never come back.

Martin

[Bromir Feuerhelm]

Then Play alone.

[martin]

Ich hab von einigen Spielern gehört und das ist der wichtigste Grund , es geht das RPG ab .

Das hoere ich jetzt von mittlerweile mindestens 5 Spielern, was ja eine kuriose Situation ist, oder?
Das heisst: Ihr 5 und noch ein paar andere koenntet zwar RPen, aber weil andere IG nicht so viel RPen geht ihr und ueberlasst das Feld halt den nicht-RPern?
Oder was genau ist es? Das ist fuer mich nicht logisch nachvollziehbar. Das RP ist nichts technisch eingebautes, es ist etwas, das durch die Spieler -- und dazu gehoerst auch DU -- entsteht. Wenn das RP fehlt, dann ist das auch mit deine Schuld und auch mit die Schuld derer, die rumjammern und maulen.

Legt es doch klar auf den Tisch. Sagt doch einfach, dass ihrs Scheisse findet, wenn Charakter X nur darauf aus ist, die Skills wiederzuerlangen, die er vor dem Wipe hatte. Sagt es doch, dass es euch ankotzt, dass Charakter Y nur spielt um das Gold, das er vorm wipe hatte, wiederzubekommen.
Denn das ist es, das ich heute seh, und von diesen Leuten wuerde ich behaupten, dass sie keine Rollenspieler sind (das ist per se nichts schlechtes -- gute 70% meines engeren Freundeskreises sind keine Rollenspieler, trotzdem sind sie als Menschen einigermassen akzeptabel, sonst wuerden sie sicher nicht zu meinem engeren Freundeskreis zaehlen...).

Aber wegzugehen und es "den anderen", der "anonymen Spielerschaft" zu ueberlassen, "das RP" wieder zurueckzubringen, waehrend ihr euch in die Sonne legt und ein Cocktail schluerft finde ich irgendwie... zumindest eben kurios. Arbeitet doch dran!
Mir gefaellt zB. ein Teil der momentanen technischen Situation nicht. Ich lehn mich nicht zurueck und sag "Falk, Cass, Shivoc, macht ihr mal, wenn dann was gutes rausschaut, komm ich wieder", sondern ich sag: "Okay, wo kann ich anfangen?" und TU dann was. Ich lass nicht die anderen, ich MACH, wo ich kann, um es zu verbessern.
Und genau dieser Gedanke, hoffe ich, streift euch auch bald mal. Zeit waers.

Viele um nicht zu sagen die meisten jagen ihren verlorenen Skills und Geld , Besitz nach . Nicht nur um alles wieder zu haben sondern auch wie an anderer Stelle gesagt ihre Rolle wieder spielen zu können die sie vor dem Wipe gespielt haben .

Das ist bloedsinn. Und ich stimme Cass zu (ich habs woanders schon gepostet): Ich bereue es, dass wir uns gegen einen Geschichtswipe entschieden haben.
Ein entscheidender Teil der Spielerschafft kommt offensichtlich spieltechnisch/rollenspieltechnisch NICHT damit klar, wie wirs geloest haben, und haben es ganz genau nicht so aufgefasst, wie es gemeint war. Das soll keine Schelte sein, mehr eine neutrale Beobachtung.
Aber: Lasst diese Spieler wissen, dass ihr das nicht in Ordnung findet! Sagt es halt einfach, anstatt wegzugehen, das Maul zu halten und "auf bessere Zeiten" zu warten. Das spielts nicht, die besseren Zeiten kommen naemlich ohne die nicht, die sie herbeisehnen. Ihr ueberlasst das Feld genau denen, die diese "besseren Zeiten" NICHT haben wollen. Das ist, eben, kurios.

Anderen ist die Karte einfach viel zu groß . Das ewige laufen durch immer gleich aussehende Steinfelder wird mit der Zeit langweilig . Noch dazu wo überall die Steine rumliegen die Erz und Kohle endhalten . Auf der alten Karte hatte man dafür Minen . Da wuste man wo man was finden konnte , heute bei der neuen Karte mußt du nicht mehr suchen .
Ein zeichen das die Karte zu groß ist ist der Gedanke der auf dem Treffen geäußert wurde ein Transportsystem einzubauen das die Wege verkürzen soll .

Das ist sehr einfach zu loesen.
Jeder Punkt davon.
Darauf habe ich, und das sage ich hier extern, intern mehrmals hingewiesen. Mehr als den GMs in den Arsch zu treten kann ich nicht mehr machen, ausser der physischen Umsetzung dieser Metapher freilich.

Ein anderer Grund ist die noch fehlende Balance .
Ich hab Angst davor eine Woche Urlaub in das Spiel zu stecken um dann durch eine Skillkürzung wieder einen großen Teil zu verlieren .

Schon wieder so ein Trugschluss.
1) Was zu verlieren schade waere waere Spass von im Spiel verbrachter Zeit. Und das koennen wir niemandem nehmen, wir koennen keine Gedanken loeschen.
2) Skills sind Zahlen. Die zu loeschen sollte Rollenspieler soviel kuemmern wie das Faktum, dass Schauspieler X in Film A den Boesewicht und in Film B den Guten spielte.
3) Balanciert kann nur dann werden, wenn Spieler da sind. Ein leeres Spiel KANN nicht balanciert werden. Es ist dasselbe wie oben: "den anderen" ueberlassen und sich zuruecklehnen und auf die "guten Zeiten" warten, kann gar nix. Ohne dich, ohne euch gibt es keine "besseren Zeiten", weil ohne Spieler gar nicht balanciert werden kann.

RPG ist in dem Spiel wirklich wichtig , aber ohne Skills kann man einfach bestimmte Rollen nicht spielen .

Ein Trugschluss:
Nicht die Rolle bestimmt die dazu noetigen Skills, sondern die Skills bestimmen die spielbaren Rollen. Diesem Trugschluss liegen viele auf. Das ist schade, denn in diesem Fall koennten wir uns viel Aerger ersparen und euch einfach eure Skills, Stats und sonstiges vollkommen frei waehlen lassen. Du sagst "fuer meine Rolle 'Clark Kent' brauche ich Str=35, Int=189, Agi=90, Dex=46, ..., und die folgenden Skills auf Maximum: Kaempfen, fliegen, Laserauge, ...", wir stellen das ein und du logst ein, fertig.

Nicht jeder ist dazu geboren Stundenlang an einem Feuer zu sitzen , es gehört zwar dazu , aber es muß doch auch einen ausgleich für RPG geben .

Das verlangt keiner. Fuer JEDE Koennensstufe gibt es andere Betaetigungsfelder als "Lagerfeuersitzen". Fuer Clark Kent ebenso wie fuer den kleinen Hansi mit Skills=0.

Das Spiel aendert sich, aber ich hab das Gefuehl, mit ihm muessen sich auch die Vorstellungen und Ansprueche der Spieler aendern.

Martin

[Vindigan]

I think the game has gotten too Serious. When I played (often) There were the odd serious roleplayers that made the major quests, but there were a lot more people that would just hang about town and chat. Maybe they were baking 100 cakes, and maybe that is classed as powergaming now, but it was fun to just have a place to go and chat to people. A lot of those people may have left because of the skills being stupidly hard to get. If anyone here plays any other MMORPG where you need XP to level up, you will know that feeling when you see how much XP you need for that next level, it just makes you want to stop playing. Most of those "background" roleplayers may have left because they got bored of doing the same thing over and over.

Yes, Illarion is based on Roleplay, but skills are an important part to it as well. No-one likes to do the same thing for hours and not see any rewards. If you disagree with skills being an important part of this game, then ask yourself, how many people would play if there was no skills, no fighting, no monsters, you "roleplayed" everything. I think none.

[martin]

You're the most conservative and backwards oriented game community I ever encountered. Ever.

That's quite a loss of motivation. I hardly think about at least taking a break.

Seeing your really hard work being pulled down into shit for reasons that are not even anywhere close to "considerable" or "reasonable" is...
Well.

I have to reconsider my work here. Obviously most changes I implemented in hard work after weeks and month of dicussion, planning, thinking and coding are pure crap and seem to annoy you where I thought they were adding chances to RP, when the things do not work as I intended them to be played out, it's pure demotivation.

Sorry.

Yes, it is shit, it's even pure shit, and I guess I do not want to develop a game played by most of you, because you do not like it and I do not like the way you play and understand games.

I am rather disappointed, demotivated and disillusionated and I really wish I never ever knew anything about Illarion.
When you tell me that you lost "skills", I laugh. I lost years to developt that game that you do not like at all. I could have worked for a company instead and made good money of it. Instead, out of pure enthusiasm I worked on that, now seeing that it does not seem to please anyone.

Seeing that the number of player online does not really increases proves you right.
Seeing that complexity is not your case proves you right (huh?).

Probably you're right, it's shit.

That's it.

Martin

[Aristeaus]

Its shit? No martin i wouldnt not say that. I have dedicate alot of time to this game. Not as much as yourself im certain, But still alot of time. And i do so because i thoroughly enjoy the game and the community which go with it.

And as to your last post, yes the responses havnt been great, But as the developer you have to take to the good with the bad. Some developments work well some do not. It as it allways is in life. You dont know until it is implemented. And like you say i dont think that skill loss and such should be a reason not to play.

But martin having a little rant does not change any matters. We all feel pissed of about certain things at certain times, but do you truely think this is the right place to post your reaction. You are trying to find out some reasons why people are not playing, and im afraid after your post it will just turn into one of the many flame wars you see within the forum.

[Fooser]

Wow, I feel like an asshole now

I don't know how to respond, other than: it's criticism yes, but it at least shows the players care for making things better, even if it does come out in a way you don't take well to.

There are also many good things going on, things many players wouldn't think would be possible a year ago, two years ago, and farther. Talking to NPC's, complex item quality, the list goes on.

[Gro'bul]

The focus. People are obsessed with possesions, time they invested getting flushed. The whole focus of the game seems to have been lost in the recent restart, almost exclusively because people want to be uber-powerful or uber-rich. Anotherwards greed, and I won't say this is everyone, but the general complaints here seem to be unfocused of the whole point of playing this game and not progress quest.

I know I have lost sight of the true reason for playing illarion and not WoW lately too, playing an ubercraftsman/mage/fighter is not it.

[Delakaniam]

Martin, NO WAY. In all honesty, I am always thinking about just how much of you, the GM's, and the rest of the development team have poured PORTIONS OF YOUR SOULS into this game. It drives me to teeth-gritting when complaints show up left and right all around the board about things that: a) You have worked really, really hard at; b) You have worked hard at in order to see what possibilites can be done to improve the game; and c) things that are NOT the fault of the GM's/Dev's.

I'm hoping Japheth's "What's right about Illarion" thread gets a lot more posts. Personally, I can hardly imagine what it would be like without Illarion.

For the last 6 months, I have only gotten to play about 10 hours total of Illarion, at the very most. I have very little time, and even when I DO have time, I have a rather strict parental control restraint. But I have never even considered leaving Illarion at all.

If there are n00bs, try your best to tolerate it, and TEACH them. Bitching, at times, allowed. Bitching without also looking for an answer is definitely not preferred.

It's a bit funny... I had very, very little difficulty in the switch from the old server to the new one. This is because none of my characters owned any armor better than chainmaille, nor any weapons stronger than a good staff, nor posessed any items rarer than a harp or some seldom-seen herbs. None of them had skills higher than the dull red of dried blood. None of them were ever richer than 7 ingots' worth, a lute, a lot of wine, and many flowers.

But I can bet you I've had some of the best and most fun RP out of the larger percentage of you, in comparison to what time I have.

There is NOTHING related to the fun, atmosphere, and soul of Illarion's role-playing that the PLAYER'S can't do to help.

PS -- Martin, I'm sorry that you and the rest of the developers always get such crap from us, the players. But I have admiration for your continued efforts in the game even in spite of it, and I'm sorry that so much discouragement often comes out from us before many of us realize just how degrading it usually is.

[Pronon Palmsuger]

Matrin I totally understand where your coming from but she asked "what is wrong with Illarion" and the people are answering. If you were expceting "nothing" then I suppose you are wrong. I know exactly how it feels seeing as it recently happened to me on an incredibly large project I was working on, but you kind of have to accept it.

And No I dont think Illarion is pure shit, I just lost interest for the time being.

[Pendar]

The only thing wrong with Illarion is a slight lack of communication between devs and players. Now this may be my short comeing for not reading german. How ever not knowing with smithing for example if it is working or what aspects are bugged is a little annoying.
Item deletions are a tweaking of a game that is remergeing it is not a problem with illarion it is the side affect of a lot of hard work being done that we get to enjoy. When we play a new improved illarion.

The new craft system is complex yes,,,you know what rp with it get a teacher ask around and expirement. As a character would do when learning a new skill.

As for the rest we have the same wonderful game we always did upgraded and better. Yes I have had moments were item and skill lose have made me want to pull my hair out. Then you step back laugh of the lose of pixels and get into some role playing. I do not want to get preachy on people or say my RP is so damn good. Pendar is a warrior who currently has a rusty sword and torn clothes and not much in the way of skill. When i stopped worrying about those things and emersed myself in the game instead.
Well I have had 3 nights of epic roleplay on the trot, infact there has been so many interesting characters to interact with I have felt sad to rush or not be able to engage some people.
Yes we all like skills and items but you know with minimal effort in 3 months you can have a hugely skilled character. Whats the rush ?

There was a definate problem in the first weeks with all rp going to hell, how ever that is now a thing of the passed with the rp in game being as good as it ever was.
With minimal effort i have enough coin for basics, and my fighting skills will raise with time. When we had the major item deletion i lost two weeks of work I was really unhappy having supplied many of my guards with armor and weapons. It nearly put me off playing cause of all that work gone down the shitter.
Then i realised this game is not meant to be work it is meant to be fun, so I have relaxed stopped trying to recreate the "pre wipe" pendar in a week.
The game is better than ever the problem is our attitude to it.

I think magic and druidry not working has left some players feeling cut adrift I hope our mages and druids will resurface when that skill is working.

That said guys the rp is great, many skills are working, jump back in and make the game great. It is only with players online we can have a great game...and that means you!
Sincerly
Brian

Read this to see whats definately right in my eyes
http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... 619#188619

[Nilo]

Ill tell you why, haha.

I dont know any of the older players i used to enjoy talking to... I dont know who is who. And it is no fun rp'ing because i don't exactly, no offense, like rping with noobs all that much.

I like good old fashion rp. I dont like this new... well whatever you want to call it. Its just so.. predictable.. i guess you could say. It is meaningless and is boring to me I feel like.

Also its too big of a map. 5 players online and you cant find anyone. Also, everyone is striving to be the best at something. Its like one big race to become the master whatever.

The fighting seems to be all off to me.. The noobs i used to know are all better than me it seems like, and there are even more powergamers now than there ever have been.

This is kinda why i dont really play anymore..

[Garett Gwenour]

Thats a unique perspective Nilo.
I never have a hard time finding players, they are always around town. Maybe you last played when everyone wanted to find Varshikar and Greenbriar so no one was in town. Now things have calmed down a bit. And people hang around town.

And predictable roleplay?
I don't think that is really a problem.

And you have problems not being the best anymore. Thats predictable considering.

[Garett Gwenour]

Here, Pendar summed it up in a nutshell whilst we drank shots of Vodka and snorted bits of cocaine on Messenger.

"the game is actually sweet at the moment, once it is all working...imo"

"the topic is so far off track as non of that is whats wrong with the game...its what wrong with the players"

He is so right...

[Nilo]

This is true, i have not played in over a month.

To tell the truth, i miss the illarion 2 years ago.

I miss the not-so-strict RP, I miss the few annoying noobs.. they seem to be all annoying to me now.

I suppose i have just outgrown the game i once loved.. that, or it has outgrown me.

[Moirear Sian]

Why is illarion boring.

Hmm, that's hard to put my finger on. It's technically not Illarion that's boring, it's the players that are boring. Technical issues, map this, bla bla, skilling up, yadda yadda; jeeeze, who gives a f*ck. I had no trouble playing Bandits and Police as a kid, but maybe some other people are somehow challenged when it comes to using their imagination. These things don't stop you from making guilds. Recruiting player characters. Or doing stuff. Or simple interaction. We're not talking about a science-fiction RPG here, are we? No. The powerful #me is almighty and there's nothing in the way of the flexible RPer.

After the wipe I made some characters that were supposed to be incapable of leadership and such, and at the moment, I'm sort of regretting it because it seems to me as an off-side player (no time atm), there is little to no guild activity openly going on. Vindigan wrote things are too serious for his taste, for me it's the opposite—they weren't serious enough, the last times I was in game; in-game player characters seemed as static as npc shopkeepers, alot of people avoided interaction.

Just a subliminal little complaint to some of the more active players who seem to spend endless amounts of time in the forums but never in game.

What is happened after the wipe.

I can't answer this honestly, I didn't play enough.

What is so wrong that you have stopped playing illarion.

Nothing's technically wrong on my end, I just don't have the time otherwise.

[Nilo]

What is so wrong that you have stopped playing illarion.

Is it bad to say.. everything? I really REALLY miss the client from 2 years ago..

Do you all realize.... That a game is meant to be for FUN? I mean, realistic is cool, but we dont ahve to have it that realistic you know. It has to be fun too, thats the whole purpose.

I dont mean to lecture or sound mad, or even to put down the GM's... im just.. irritated i supose, that the game has gone so.. down hill. (in my opinion.)

[Garett Gwenour]

Well, Moriear, Stephen Rothman, I hear is recruiting people he thinks would be worthy of the name Knight of Kallahorn. As is Pendar...
We just don't use the guild form.. I dont know why not with Pendar. I just don't use it because A- it is unreliable, and would rather have people meet with Stephen ingame to try and join; B- you feel you need to write on it at least once a week or else it looks like your guild is inactive and so people don't want to join.

[Moirear Sian]

@Nilo: I disagree. The game has made some good steps forwards, the ones I deem bad so far are to my knowledge unintentional. On the other hand, the player community might have made some steps backwards, perhaps that's more worth considering in this thread. For example, I'd appreciate seeing players work more on opening guilds or reviving old ones like it has been done with the Archers.

@Garrett: Well, fine, that speaks for you, but that doesn't speak for the God-knows-how-many who have essentially done nothing (myself included, although, I did it consciously). Furthermore, I think I meant more to express that I'd expect guilds to be sprouting up now after the wipe, especially with the new map and the vast expanse of space and many new players, but perhaps I was expecting it too early? Or perhaps I should have just done it myself? (;

[Nilo]

OKay yeah, but no offense.... those two aren't run by 'older more experienced' players... not that it has to be run by older players to be successful or anything...


Well i dont know, i just dont like the game much anymore.. most older players have gone i think.. its a tradgedy.

[Pendar]

Something wrong the game, you have not been in it... Sian.
Seriously though players should band togther more, i have more people wanting to join my guard than i can possibly take. We are relatively active and generally seem to have fun though.
What needs to happen is we all need to put our problems aside get in game and RP. That is the solution,
My 02 as far as realism and strict rp go,,loseing those two points are possibly the only thing that could make me stop playing. There are 100's of lose rp games online, one can play any of them
Realism and strict rp is what makes illarion so very special.
Brian

[Pendar]

As you say, older players are not needed for sucess. I dont think there is much an older player brings with them aside from history that Pendar does not
So I fail to see the relevence of old to new players. Infact as I generally get decent responce to my rp I would say i am arguement for embraceing and welcomeing new players.
Lets all get in game and play,
Brian

[Moirear Sian]

Something wrong the game, you have not been in it... Sian.

I don't see what's wrong about that; my impression last time in game was that a large deal of people prefer the more light-hearted game ambient... I do not, I prefer it to be more seriously-inclined (e.g. guild intrigues, spying, plotting, etc.), as such, I think I'd only be getting on people's nerves and in the way.

[Gwynnether]

Another reason which i can see. There is no story taking place at the present time in which the players can dig thier teeth within. No matters of conversation and no plans for the players to work towards apart from earning gold and gaining skill.

Thank you, Darren. I agree fully with this.
No offence against our RP GMs, I know they are planning something and do their quests here and then, but * right now * it's boring ingame.

There is a huge story missing, something that people give to worry/think/laugh about.
And please, before a GM starts with the phrase: "That's something the players have to care for" - Why do we have RP GMs?
Right now there is a lack that maybe isn't refillable by the players. We need help.

Again, please don't take any offence with that. I know you guys are doing your best, some of the players too and we know that everyone of us has a RL.


I was the first with announcing that I'm going to do a break, but people may have recognized that I'm quite active ingame again and I have a lot of fun lately. The first player-related quests are going on, the first dramatic stories and the first 'sitting-in-tavern-and-chat'-evenings.

I have to admit though that I'm doing the "Onlinelist"-thing. I look at the online list and based on the chars who are online I decide if I go ingame.

Martin, you are for sure right, that the roleplay can't increase when the roleplayers stay out of game because of frustration and just wait for things are getting better.
On the other side: I've tried it.
I went ingame and tried to roleplay with the people who were obviously just interested in working or gaining skills and more than often I failed horrible. It's no fun either when you go ingame with the feeling you have to force the other players to roleplay with you. Yea, it's frustrating.
So I can understand both sides.


All told I think it's getting a lot better, at least I can have a lot of fun ingame currently and I want to thank my dear fellows who are rping with me so much. I wuv you all!

[Pendar]

Sian wrote

I don't see what's wrong about that

I miss you, I am allowed game is poorer with out you. How ever that was more flippant sideline stuff and gentle poke to return when you arent bogged down.

Gwyn's post is good for two reasons,
Firstly it adress's what is missing in game as she see's it. I can agree that plots even more than one off quests enrich the game emmensly.
I know this is logistically difficult, for gms and players. The gms have many time constraints and the players we know you need some skill to play an "evil" player in a plot. As you will be hunted you will be killed..a lot.
I have seen attempts such as the drow attack, perhaps that will come to something.
Secondly i dont see one complaint about a skills,crafts or how hard it is to be super skilled.
I agree the game is returning to normal with social activitys occuring again very nicely.
Brian

[Quinasa]

i like to go IG with a motive

I am your motive!

But on a serious note...
What do I think is wrong with Illarion? I can answer that easily. The char wipe and anticipation of it made everyone excited. All of the GMs and devs have done a fabulous job I could kiss you all; the map is excellent and the graphics are fabulous and I find everything is superb. Except the players. It's not just that the skill gain is harder now... its that it's become all about skill gain. It's not the GMs running around smithing away and hack and slashing away. Its the players. I currently have 3 active chars. One is board RP or else I'd be IG with Quinnie all day and there'd be one more name on that list daily. Maj is pretty much all RP at the moment and I'd be IG with her 24/7 but I've been working so much I haven't had the time. My third active char is into working but not for the exp. But more for something to do, she's a loner and she feels uncomfortable around people. I'm not perfect but I can take advantage of the situation and embrace it with RP. I don't understand why some of you can't. You can't look to the GMs for everything, create your own RP. Make something big. Ask for assistance if you need it. Don't piss and moan because nothing is happening IG. Be assertive, take charge, be a leader. There's nothing worse than 600 followers standing around waiting for something thats not coming. The GMs and devs have their hands full for the forseeable future so until everything gets back to pretty much normal you have to get over it and find your own toilet paper to wipe your own asses.

I don't think any of you can see how huge Illarion could become! Think of the possibilities! Sure we have new people joining and old players returning, but there will be more. The more people come the more exciting things will get! But it won't happen over night. It takes time. Be patient and have faith in our team of dedicated workers. Have faith in yourselves. It takes all of us to make Illarion a desirable place to be, not just them.

Guys, I know you all want to be good at your trades again, but you all have an excuse not to be right away. It may not be an IG excuse but we all know not to ask about stuff like that IG because there's a shared OOC reason. I also know that half of you are trying to be the best at your craft as fast as you can and what's going to happen is this... you're going to get to that point. Then you're going to get bored and stop playing because you'll think it's lost it's appeal, its luster. You'll have no use for RP unless its to make a few coppers.

Long answer made short: it's partly the bugs, partly the inability to admit that the old ways aren't going to come back. The problem is sadly with the players. Not all, but a good sized chunk. Stop crying and start RPing. Its what we're all here for.
Oh what, you're not? There's the door.-->

Jaime

[Aragon]

First, I must admit, that I played much more hours now than before the wipe. I loved Illarion since the first days (long long ago).

Many of the new things I like, complex economic and crafting system, large map (but also I prefer a transporting system for the times, you don't want to explore). Guild life for my char is there, more than before the wipe (perhaps mostly ingame and on internal boards than on the illarion guild board).

The reason I don't play more, is rl-time. Nothing more.

Some minor things aren't the way I like it (monster speed, missing magic and priest magic). One can be changed, the other will come by time.
Some more hints in the way things work may helpful to avoid long trying.
Time you need to find out, how things work is time you haven't got for pure roleplay. But when I want, I found enough chances to roleplay (mostly it is the missing rl-time for more roleplay and to continue beginning stories).

So I can only guess, what's turning players away.
I think, in the first times, many where attracted by the new system, but get away through the many bugs and inbalancing and changes, which had to happen in the first weeks until now due to technical reasons.

Another reason maybe the missing of all sorts of magic. Each char, which is based from his background on magic isn't fully playable without it.
And magic is always a thing, which attracts players.

Another thing maybe the typical Illarion secretivism and snobisem (may I used the wrong words). Players sometimes are treated as second class from staff (e.g. asking for reasons, why they don't play and than reacting on these real reasons, player have with saying it's their fault they don't play and naming it shit ... [martin better don't post, when you are frustrated, it gets in the wrong direction ]).