Right my humble thoughts and proposed solutions to the wipe

[Cliu Beothach]

no, I am not against having the a character travel to the new island. Do what you want with him.

[falco1029]

no, I am not against having the a character travel to the new island. Do what you want with him.

Then why are you siding with "wipe out all history prior to the charwipe"?

[Cliu Beothach]

Not having THIS island of trollsbane anymore, but that is not possible. I think it would be best to keep almost ALL new chars, but if we need to the time span would work, but I do not like that idea too much.

[Moirear Sian]

Then you would hate actual game development, and should go to UO, where everything is handed to you on a silver platter.

My friend, I'm afraid you haven't looked into UO too deeply, but it is irrelevant in this topic.

And what is so bad about Ules traveling to the "new" island? How is that history loss?

Based on what you want, he'd start over and would lose all the history from the island.

If I think of this subject and try to relate it to writing—as in fiction I write—most oftenly what I write turns out better if just completely scrap the old material and begin from scratch again, sometimes reusing old elements that worked well, and making new room for improvements; or even completely beginning anew.

[falco1029]

CLIU:
Well you are against continuing rp which means history loss, one way or another.

[Cliu Beothach]

I really wish that we started TOTALLY fresh. I doubt that will happen though.

[falco1029]

If I think of this subject and try to relate it to writing—as in fiction I write—most oftenly what I write turns out better if just completely scrap the old material and begin from scratch again, sometimes reusing old elements that worked well, and making new room for improvements; or even completely beginning anew.

But what if you liked what you sdtarted with, and it had a lot of content, most of it good, and you dont wish to start over with it?

[Pendar]

The new island issues is almost void isnt it. The map is set the land marks in place grey rose castle stands etc.
I actually have no issue with the concept of traveling to a new island. As it allows characters to continue but resets all the polotics. I actually dont personally desire a political reset. I must how ever assume that is what some people are after. A complete station reset so we are all peasants togther?
I feel for people who have put hours into createing varshikar,riseing to the top of rose or claiming any other "power" position. Like it or not it is these people that make our world go round.In principle an immigration does not pose a problem though.
Except the fact it can not be technically realised ?
Brian

[Garett Gwenour]

Returner, you say you have ideas for a character that are more permanent then a server. With your logic you should be argueing to keep the history as there are plenty of players roleplaying ideas they've thought up much like yourself, only doing it.

[Moirear Sian]

If I think of this subject and try to relate it to writing—as in fiction I write—most oftenly what I write turns out better if just completely scrap the old material and begin from scratch again, sometimes reusing old elements that worked well, and making new room for improvements; or even completely beginning anew.

But what if you liked what you sdtarted with, and it had a lot of content, most of it good, and you dont wish to start over with it?

I'm my own worst critic, and such a case hardly ever occurs. 99% is flushed down the toilet. And even the 1% that gets through my own testing undergoes more refining until I'm happy with it. I believe that's the essence of an art, but am not quite sure.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm just stating what I think, I'm not expecting the case of old things being completely discontinued. The majority just seems too emotionally attached to their characters (and as Returner has hinted several times—realize not the implications of the term "Alpha Phase"). Although I cannot share the sentiment too far (because we're talking about a MMORPG), I can try to understand it. However, the arguments for continuing things have not impressed me much yet, basically all I read out of them is "we're too emotionally attached to our characters" and "map elements will be standing out of context", both which are paramount to a distinct form of xenophobia in my eyes—like a fear of trying out something completely new. All logics put aside for a moment: don't any of you who argue for continuing things feel any curiousity of what it might be like if the opposite was to occur?

[falco1029]

If I think of this subject and try to relate it to writing—as in fiction I write—most oftenly what I write turns out better if just completely scrap the old material and begin from scratch again, sometimes reusing old elements that worked well, and making new room for improvements; or even completely beginning anew.

But what if you liked what you sdtarted with, and it had a lot of content, most of it good, and you dont wish to start over with it?

I'm my own worst critic, and such a case hardly ever occurs. 99% is flushed down the toilet. And even the 1% that gets through my own testing undergoes more refining until I'm happy with it. I believe that's the essence of an art, but am not quite sure.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm just stating what I think, I'm not expecting the case of old things being completely discontinued. The majority just seems too emotionally attached to their characters (and as Returner has hinted several times—realize not the implications of the term "Alpha Phase"). Although I cannot share the sentiment too far (because we're talking about a MMORPG), I can try to understand it. However, the arguments for continuing things have not impressed me much yet, basically all I read out of them is "we're too emotionally attached to our characters" and "map elements will be standing out of context", both which are paramount to a distinct form of xenophobia in my eyes—like a fear of trying out something completely new. All logics put aside for a moment: don't any of you who argue for continuing things feel any curiousity of what it might be like if the opposite was to occur?

YOu may be like that, but I dont feel that way. You must not have read all argyments because I supported several times my side, in better ways than you claim. Pleas reread every post i made if you wish to continue with dignity.

[Domitrio]

I have read the entire arguement (spanning about 3 threads) and I still don't understand why people won't just leave their characters and start again. Yes... I know that there's been a lot of great RP and memories you don't want to lose, but it'll have HORRIBLE plot holes and gaps if some people continue, and some don't. And the ideas for item/skill loss seem too tacked on. Has everyone looked at the poll thread? I suggest we move some opinions there, not through arguements, but through voting.

[Moirear Sian]

YOu may be like that, but I dont feel that way. You must not have read all argyments because I supported several times my side, in better ways than you claim. Pleas reread every post i made if you wish to continue with dignity.

I play the ball back to you. Please reread the entire thread, all the other threads concerning this subject, and finally read my post up there, if you wish to continue with dignity.

Furthermore, my question concerning curiosity remains unanswered.

[Gwynnether]

I have read the entire arguement (spanning about 3 threads) and I still don't understand why people won't just leave their characters and start again.

Well.. honestly I haven't read through all threads, but I want to give my opinion too, though I'm sure it was already mentioned.

I'm quite neutral to the whole charwipe. No problem with losing items, skills... but the history?

I would define myself as an 'extreme-roleplayer'. I always put a lot of emotions into my roleplay til the point I already can feel with my chars.
I was more than once moved to tears, or got heartbeating because of excitement. And now that should be all for nothing?


You want to make a new beginning? Please do. Leave your chars and make new ones. But please let all the players decide themselves if they want to keep their charhistories, everything else would be quite unfair, wouldn't it?


I will get rid of Gwynnether. She was the first char I've ever made and my 'mainchar'. Through all what happend she got her own personality... she is now complitely different than at the beginning, because she grew.
It will hurt me to stop playing with here, but I think it's time to let her go.
If I would have decided the other way... and wanted to play with Gwynnether furthermore, but couldn't keep her history... I would quit Illarion then. I've spend too much emotion, too much time and too much thoughts into this char, that I would give all that up.


Yours,
Jen

[Ezor Edwickton]

You want to make a new beginning? Please do. Leave your chars and make new ones. But please let all the players decide themselves if they want to keep their charhistories, everything else would be quite unfair, wouldn't it?

THere is a major difference between making everyone start from scratch and having people decide for themselves. Starting everyone from scratch would take away everything, including guilds, governments, or any organizations. Letting people decide if they want to continue history, would allow the continuation of cetian organizations.
But i see that as a major problem. Some organizations would disappear because of people leaving there chars, and some would stay. THis leaving large wholes in the games story. Not to mention mass confusion.

[Domitrio]

I've posted a few times before.. there are going to be HUGE gaping plot holes. Considering that... some of the buildings are going to be claimed by certain guilds, who at the moment own them, but after the update will have no more claim to them than anyone. It'll just be... well I don't know. I think this is a losing arguement, at least on this facet of it.

[Kaledon Mordaine]

Now, I know my opinion doesn't mean much, considering that I just submitted a char request, but I still feel that it is necessary. This is just my opinion, please don't flame me for it.

First of all, falco1029, and Returner, to me at least most of your posts just seem to be claims that you are better and the other person is worse. Which doesn't make sense to me. What purpose does that serve? Why not just accept the arguments as they are, and disregard who made them. If an argument makes sense, should it be completely ignored simply because of Who made it? This is not meant as a personal attack. I simply want to point out how it sounds to a completely objective person, such as myself to whom it will make little difference.

Also, with the whole going to a different Island, or whatever, what's wrong with having the same names? Or similar buildings? After being forced to flee their homes, would it be so surprising if most of the people wanted something familiar? Perhaps people just constructed new buildings, and modelled them after the old.

Well, anyway, those are just my thoughts on the matter, if anyone disagrees with me, that is fine. All I ask is that it be a debate, a reasonable argument, or whatever, and not an attack.

[Kaledon Mordaine]

Oh, and Fooser. How can you claim that everything that happened would be a waste?! All the pleasure that they gained, all the fun they had, would be negated? Why is that? If you want to keep your char, and the history, that's fine, but why would it suddenly make everything meaningless if you lost those?

And also, I have to disagree with what someone said earlier, about characters being formed almost entirely of their experiences during the game. Personally, I prefer to fully create my character, with his personality and such, before I use him. His experiences will change him, but his history, and underlying personality, are still truly important to make my characters what they are.

[Aragon]

But i see that as a major problem. Some organizations would disappear because of people leaving there chars, and some would stay. THis leaving large wholes in the games story. Not to mention mass confusion.

This isn't a real argument, because this happens all the time. In the four years, I've played, many organisations were founded and disappeared into nowhere because people quit playing.
Examples: Rangers, Ironhammerguild, Lyrenzia, Magic Academy, Movement (only to sum up some of the longer lasting and well known guilds and organisations).
This will also happen in future, not depending on starting new or continuing history.
Or think about many couples, marriaging ingame and the partner get lost due to rl-things and quiting game. Happend to Aragon at least three times.
This is the risk of playing an online game with players all over the world.

[Gwynnether]

I agree with Aragon.


The players who know that they will stop playing with certain chars should think about a story what happened to them.
Shouldn't be such a problem, should it?
Gwynnether and John are leaving the island too, because of their son.


Leader of organizations could give their leadership to another member.

Couples... well, bad break. You can't force someone to play a char anyway, when he doesn't want anymore.


Jen

[Ezor Edwickton]

This isn't a real argument, because this happens all the time. In the four years, I've played, many organisations were founded and disappeared into nowhere because people quit playing.

But it would be on a much larger scale, and a little harder to cover up with plausable rp reasons. I'm not saying it can't be done.

[Domitrio]

I'm just wondering what we're going to do... still. Well I know what I personally am going to do, but with no backstory there'll be no way to know who's story to really trust. But I guess by not taking a stand, people are actually leading to a lot of RP development, considering that many people will come forth, after the... thing, and try to explain it in plausable, or rather far-fetched, ways. Now that I think about it.. no back story might not be that bad. But don't feel bad if your character gets no more respect than the next peasant, even though you used to be a great: Smith/Fighter/Mage/Goldsmith/Miner/Etc/Etc/Etc.

[Thalodos Artemetus]

I don't know why everyone is overcomplicating this. A plague is a good enough explanation. Those who want to get rid of their characters will stay on the island, those who want to continue will leave. The restart could occur 2 or 3 months later. Those who left have returned, but due to their time at sea have grown weak. Those who remain are obviously dead. Perhaps the new map could have a grave yard?
Anyways, thats my two pence.

[Gwynnether]

But don't feel bad if your character gets no more respect than the next peasant, even though you used to be a great: Smith/Fighter/Mage/Goldsmith/Miner/Etc/Etc/Etc.

uh. did someone say that?
I think you are talking about skills, not about roleplay. To me, the loss of the skills doesn't matter. As well as the 'respect' that goes with it.
Has nothing to do with my chars history, in my opinion... but when I hear you talking I might think that you never experienced that kind of heartbeating-roleplay like I did.

When I explained someone what 'Illarion' is, I always answered: It's like a stage play, just that you don't have a script for your actor.

I love the dramas that happend ingame and gave me sleepless night sometimes. And I love the evenings where you just sit around a campfire with the others and have a good chat. Making jokes, telling stories, get 'drunken', etc.

And Illarion is nothing less than a stage play or a good book. You have a protagonist, you made and after a while you will see that your protagonist grows and changes with every happening he experience.

My char Caitlin Fergus was ment to be a thief and now became a medico and a druid.
Deirdre Rogan was ment to be just a farmer and baker. A lovely innocent woman... but with time she became a child Bjolmurs, a necromancer... and now is the mother of 'Maeve'.

Both happend more or less 'per accident'. Because of the roleplay of others. And that is what I hardly would want to give up. I would have the feeling that my sleepness nights were all for nothing

It's not that I will play these chars forever. quite the converse. but I still think it's up to the player to decide when the time is right to let the char go. And not to force it.

[Ezor Edwickton]

It's not that I will play these chars forever. quite the converse. but I still think it's up to the player to decide when the time is right to let the char go. And not to force it.

You can always reincarnate your character in the form of another one.

[Burin]

Just a quick question:

Will a new forum be up as well?

I think we could use a new one...

[Gwynnether]

You can always reincarnate your character in the form of another one

I think you are losing your arguments

[Bloodhearte]

But don't feel bad if your character gets no more respect than the next peasant, even though you used to be a great: Smith/Fighter/Mage/Goldsmith/Miner/Etc/Etc/Etc.

If anybody feels bad that their new character doesn't get as much respect as their dead one, it's because they're trying to fulfill their own desires, not the character's. And that's mixing IC with OOC stuff, isn't it?

This debate is going on in several different threads, but I'll retort anyway to the opposing side:

Nobody is zapping your brain, trying to delete your memories, nor is anybody blowing your house up, etc...it's just being requested that you start from scratch on a role playing game. Sheesh.

[Domitrio]

From what I have read yesterday, the arguement was always in vain. The history is supposed to be kept no matter, we're just discussing. And I think most valid points have been made, props to you all. Now I suppose all that's left are the random flames and pop-shots, so I'm going in game, c'mon guys, there are a lot of us on the board, we could all rush in for a bit of last-minute RP.

[Fooser]

And that's mixing IC with OOC stuff, isn't it?

Which happens to be true for many people on the other side..

Nobody is zapping your brain, trying to delete your memories, nor is anybody blowing your house up, etc...it's just being requested that you start from scratch on a role playing game. Sheesh.

Likewise for the request to just keep doing what we've been doing, I know that is so completely unreasonable, but try and be understanding.