The good, the bad and the ugly

[Nikago Fyrstyn]

Hello
I just want to know some opinions from you, while you playing Illarion. What do you think about that the good always wins in Illarion. Why is the good-bad amount of chars so unbalanced? (I know it just some opinions of you)
Are there any newcomers on bad chars, when no why not, when yes who . Is there a way to improve the badside like creating an active network for the bad ones? Why are bad chars most time good played and why can the good ones, when chasing the bad, trow all rules over board and when the bad just makes one failure everyone shouts around that its unfair.
Why does the bad ones always loose with style and the good ones most time win without any?
Ok thats enough for now.
Just one more quote
"xyz: look at this! okay, an assassin posts on a public board "Yoo hooo! I am an assassin for hire, post if you are interested". this is a criminal too, but how come there are no guards standing around this post and hoping to catch him? but then, anybody else who does "bad" things is jailed so soon?"
Yeah thats what I'm actually meaning too its just..why do the bad ones actually post on public boards? More is that the good ones never really never want to loose a battle, always must win first, when you log out, if you got away from the good one than its like " you logged damm logger booohooohoohooo", but what do you think someone shouldn't hide after he did something bad?
Oh and i don't think the assasin is created that good don't want to blame the player, but as already in the quote..don't you think guards would see you or someone would see you?

The following is a Quote i changed a little bit or well this way i understand it
"You don't need to win all the time or you don't need to loose everytime, its just important that you play with style"

~Nika~

Ps: if i understood the quote wrong, and the Person should know that he said it, so please pm me

[Gro'bul]

Because about 20 people who would otherwise never be there log in when the good people are attacked.

[Bloodhearte]

In regards to the assassin, what other way is there to contact clients? If the assassin says nothing on the boards, how will a person who wants a job done even know if they can get revenge on somebody at all?

I mean, the client can't run around asking for an assassin, nor can an assassin run around IG asking for work.

This is best done on the boards IMO, with vague terms being used, not outright saying "I'm an assassin, hire me."

Something along the lines of "I'm a very good cleaner, if there is a mess you need cleaning, contact me."

So, that assassin will get douches who literally think he cleans stuff like a housewife. These clients will be denied service. Then, the assassin will get the smart person that knows "cleaning" is a pretty term for "homocide."

As for good vs. evil...my opinion has been stated many times. Whenever the good guys don't like something, they can use their 210+ red shaded slashing skill to fix everything in their favor. Players refuse to play bad guys because it's easier (and funner, from my experience) to play the person that gets along with everybody, especially with the swamps of newbies who just *happen* to have characters with as much combat experience as those who have been here for two years or more.

Sure, you could play one of those "stir the pot" villains who aren't openly bad, but hide their badness behind a mask of morals...unfortunately, the Illarion community isn't large enough to play one of these characters. Characters of this kind generally take advantage of conflicts, but how can this happen if there are lack of conflicts? This has been done before and still can be done, but not often enough to really be considered "fun."

Edit: @Grobul - I know what you mean.

When the server status says 23 players are online, I don't think "Oh, what a fun opportunity to roleplay with people" first...I think, "Hm, must be a monster attack."

[Estralis Seborian]

Just one remark: In reality, almost no one regards himself as "evil". Fantasy games tend to have black and white instead of shades of grey.

We need more grey characters, that do what they like.

[Reverence]

Some people play the person who gets along with everyone, and the person who works behind the scenes.

[D.C.]

Damien is winning against a sort of evil..
Like I stated earlier. You just need to play your character cleverly and not simply powergame full strength with magic.. You need to know how to get strong people to protect your weak character.
And Damien doesn't say he is evil.. He thinks Bjolmur is evil for certain reasons. Damien thinks of himself as a good man.

[Brendan Mason]

The best villains aren't those who stroke their big black moustaches in public. I know that this topic has good intentions, but if "villains" post about themselves, then presumeably there is the chance that this OOC information might be used against them.

I agree with Estralis in regards to the need of more grey characters. There are very few of these morally dubious people around, people who aren't necessarily worshipping Moshran day and night, who instead take actions that are beneficial for themselves, while undercutting others.

We meet these people every minute of every day in real life, yet in Illarion they're as rare as flutes. At least, I assume they are.

As opposed to hearing from villains, as Nika suggested, perhaps these "Greys" could post their playing experiences.

[Bloodhearte]

Just one remark: In reality, almost no one regards himself as "evil". Fantasy games tend to have black and white instead of shades of grey.

We need more grey characters, that do what they like.

I think we have plenty of grey characters. As a matter of fact, I can only think of one overwhelmingly "I r evil" character that still plays.

[Kasume]

I just want to let everyone know.
The Good vrs. Bad imbalance, is not what I think is wrong with Illarion.

Just...
Just incase anyone cared.
You know...
Just incase.

My input onto this discussion.
Sian.

That's it!

[Drex Thaendrak]

The last time I tried to start an underground message board for our more shady characters the interest was, well, overwhelming...
Those who did sign up disappeared shortly after leaving the board totally deserted.
If there's enough interest for some secret place to exchange messages again and this timethere's enough will to actually use it to strengthen the underground society of Troll's Bane I'll restart the board.

[Kaja Wolfagen]

Us good shall allways triumph over evil. The corrupt town guard and the fallen warriors of the rose wont be able to stand against the justice which is the skulls.

[Cassandra Fjurin]

Us good shall allways triumph over evil. The corrupt town guard and the fallen warriors of the rose wont be able to stand against the justice which is the skulls.

Muharhar, LOL i really like that post. It shows us truely that there are different views of good and bad.

[Damien]

Let me define good, bad and ugly for players now :

Good : A "good" character. Usually helps people and stuff.
Bad : A "bad" character. Does stuff for own interest, greedy etc, but not necessarily a killer or whatever.
Ugly : Either, a bad powergamer with lame pseudo-rpg-excuses for his killing sprees, or a player-enerved gm who plays a nice little round of "eat-em-all" with five players and twenty spiders.


-No, in my opinion, characters which are just thought to be "good" or "evil" are plain flat. They usually do not bring much rpg depth. What makes a good character, is displaying all the little and different shades of grey in between.
When playing a bad guy, always keep up some "good" sides in him. A thief could have a honor codex only to steal from the rich ones and always tries to avoid killing people. A mean robber could be unable to hurt or even scare women or children, or feels insecure and brings out only scattered words when women are near (that could ruin the one or other raid hehe). Give them a morale they follow (even if it's a weird one), or enhance them with personal flaws, weaknesses, fears/phobias, strengths and good sides.
When playing a good guy, always put in some weaknesses, small flaws or even dark spots. Perhaps, the shining knight has a special liking for "shiny" things in coin form. Or, he fears mice. Sheep. Or may have a special liking for pigs, when noone else watches...
Or fear of children, or even women. Perhaps he dislikes a certain group of people.

Perhaps these characters are trying to hide their weaknesses, or they don't even recognize them, take them as normal. Or they know them and are trying to improve, get rid of them. Whatever ! Be creative.
Do not say "Well, i'm starting to make a good / bad character now".
Say : "Let's create a character. What could make the personality interesting without overdriving it ?"
Put up a list of his background, of his dreams, goals and hopes, his fears and nightmares, his psychical weaknesses and strengths. Create a past for him (a rough sketch may do it first, later on you can addd details).
Write all this down, read it before playing, add and modify it if necessary. That will bring much life into it.

[Misjbar]

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I feel sticky material here

[Cliu Beothach]

I am not a big fan of fabricated pasts. They are too redundant IMHO.

[Delakaniam]

And on the other hand, I think it's very important to have at least a stable idea of your character's past. You don't have to post it or tell it to everyone who asks or doesn't ask.

But after about my first two characters, I realized I started searching around too much for the specific personalities of the characters. There are characters I have of which I don't confidently know how they act, and they ultimately end up in emergency cliché or just really strange, and not in a reasonable way. Behavior uncomfortably fluctuates.

Since then, all of my characters are based on character ideas I think of *before* the thought of even creating a new character comes. And I've had a hell of a lot more fun role-playing ever since.

More on subject, Damien had a lot of excellent points. Also, going with Bloodhearte's suggestion and Nika's mention..... if you're going to be an assassin, one of the important things that most assassins do is hide the fact that they are assassins from the open public. I rest my rant.

[Cliu Beothach]

Yes De'am I agree, but creating a past does not necessarily mean you create a personality, vice versa. I dont have a pastt for Cliu, but I have a a personality. The hard part is keeping it consistence (in his works) but more so acting as a real human would. You dont go and blantantly act out traits always.

[Naybet Grint]

Good : A "good" character. Usually helps people and stuff.
Bad : A "bad" character. Does stuff for own interest, greedy etc, but not necessarily a killer or whatever.

A lot of people help other people an stuff because it serves their own interest. If I am polite to every one to serve my ego's need for popularity is that good or bad? If I help the town guard out ever once in a while because I want them to help me if I get mugged is that good or bad? If I make helaing potions all day and sell them to all and sundry because I greedily want to hoard money am I good or bad?
I am playing a character who is (for now) acting in a selfless manner, helping where he can, but I would describe them as morally grey. They just have good reasons to act in a 'good' fashion.

[Reverence]

A person who has his own objectives.
A person who will slay those in his way to gain these objectives.
A person who is loyal to those few he classes as friends.
A person who makes all beleive they are his friends.
A person who's main concern is to reach the objectives.

Does this make a person evil or good

Protecting those who are close to him, but slaying without emotion, if the need arises those who he cares not for.

He could be seen as noble for protecting those he can, or he could seem evil for not careing about the consequences of his actions upon others.

As has been written, there is no true good/evil. There can be selfish yes..

[Delakaniam]

Yes De'am I agree, but creating a past does not necessarily mean you create a personality, vice versa. I dont have a pastt for Cliu, but I have a a personality. The hard part is keeping it consistence (in his works) but more so acting as a real human would. You dont go and blantantly act out traits always.

Backgrounds help keep certain things consistant is all I'm saying . And the way with backgrounds is that you don't have to tell anyone or even have to develop it very much if no one cares. Especially if no one cares, really. But it has definitely helped me very very much in consistency.

[Cliu Beothach]

And all I am saying is a history is not necessasry to make vices and foibles. Traits can just be listed IMO

[Damien]

Of course, you can just create the personality scheme, and then start playing. But sometimes, your character will be asked where he comes from, what he does, how he lives etc.
You can then start to think of whatever you like in that moment, but if you forget it and tell something contrary when someone else asks, it may cause an atmosphere flaw if you don't manage to overplay it easily.
Additionally, creating an at least roughly sketched past for a character, will definitely give it more "life".
This will become much easier as soon as the world background is finished.

[Zare]

Traits can just be listed IMO

Maybe... but which is better...

My character likes to sing
My character doesn't like Dwarves
My character wants to be a preist

-OR-

My character likes to sing, because when he does he remembers his mother, who used to sing lullabies to him before bed every night.
My character doesn't like Dwarves because the greedy people has always tried to cheat him in the past.
My character wants to be a priest because he remembers the powerful feeling he got when he was attending a sermon as an adolescent.


What I'm saying is, if you create a past for your character, it will also make the personality stronger.

[Cliu Beothach]

Those arent really traits they are more like prefences. Those pasts are alright, but what I mean is so many people have "My town was attacked by *insert race*" it gets very boring.

[Delakaniam]

And this is why you dip deeper into your imagination to produce creative, non-cliché character backgrounds that nobody else has thought of, which all in all, will probably even branch your roleplay imagination, bringing a stronger element of true roleplay to Illarion, contributing to a finer atmosphere of roleplay, resulting in less people griping about the game because of unsatisfactory time spent seeing unsatisfactory roleplay, leading to less "good-bye" threads, therefore causing more good roleplayers to stay, and ultimately improving Illarion almost exponentially through player influence alone.

To stay a little more on current topic run, your traits can be affected by preferences. A lot of traits can be affected by background directly anyway.

[falco1029]

I think that it's better WITH backrounds. Even if it isn't all made at once. I had most of my character's past from the get-go, and have since added tiny bits to it

[Cliu Beothach]

Prefences can be affected by traits. I am just saying that a background is not necessary to get a flawed char. The background doesnt mean your character will be "deep". The character can only be as deep as the player...

In my opinion backgrounds arent necessarly needed and sometimes bettere withouot them. How many of you assess yourself then try to determine the cause of this trait? I wont try to discourage from making your chars background, but I am just stating my view on things. I feel your opinion makes just as much sense as mine.

[D.C.]

The only thing I've found annoying is that he good players always seem to find out your location in a matter of minutes..
Spoiled my roleplay for the day

[Moathia]

Find a better hiding place then, they wont find you if your hiding in a good place.

[D.C.]

Eh, well it was more i kept running into people as we were going.. what are the chances of running into a 99% of the time deserted strip of land to run into people when your captivating someone..
The luck..