Char wipe q's
Moderator: Gamemasters
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Cliu Beothach
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Galim
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Advantage for the old players? haha, good joke. I am something like an old player, i started this game with Galim. And it needed me 6 Month roleplay here before i was able to smith a platemail. that is because i can't and won#t stand for 8 hours a day in a mine and workshop like others, because i prefer roleplay than stupid work for hours.
i started this game as a pupil, now i am a student. i won't have the time again to regain my skills. not again after i once get them in long and fair roleplay. it is unfair IF all skills are get wipeout. for example, i won't get my old smithskill back, not in many month, because of my way to roleplay and the less time i have for "skillgaining" than in the old days. but a younger player, still a pupil, who prefers it to work all day will have his skills back in a few weeks. for me that means that my once experienced dwarf and master smith, who is something like a legend among the smiths, won't be as good as before ever again. but soon in a few weeks after a wipe every powergamed orc will be a many times better smith. oh yes, that is fair for players like me.
of course i can continue with my usual roleplay this way *sighs*. will be fun to roleplay the master smith while every orc or halfling is a dozen times better smith.
i hope you understand my view of this point, the view of an old player who never was able or liked massive "skillgaining"-roleplay but who had "so much advantages"
but there is no other choice i fear. the wipe is needed if we want all the new and wonderful things in illarion, if we want to make a step into the future of the game. but it will mean for the old players that they will lose everything for what they played the last two or three years. i mean, we spent two years of our live to illarion. and than it will be wiped out and unimportant in just a few seconds, thats sad.
so don't be sad or angry about the wipe, young players. believe me, the old ones will have imore reasond to be dissapointed and depressive. they don't just lose a month of work, they llose more.
I will see how it will work with my Galim in the new client after the wipe, if i can continue with him or not. before i didn'T test it, i can't decide.
i started this game as a pupil, now i am a student. i won't have the time again to regain my skills. not again after i once get them in long and fair roleplay. it is unfair IF all skills are get wipeout. for example, i won't get my old smithskill back, not in many month, because of my way to roleplay and the less time i have for "skillgaining" than in the old days. but a younger player, still a pupil, who prefers it to work all day will have his skills back in a few weeks. for me that means that my once experienced dwarf and master smith, who is something like a legend among the smiths, won't be as good as before ever again. but soon in a few weeks after a wipe every powergamed orc will be a many times better smith. oh yes, that is fair for players like me.
of course i can continue with my usual roleplay this way *sighs*. will be fun to roleplay the master smith while every orc or halfling is a dozen times better smith.
i hope you understand my view of this point, the view of an old player who never was able or liked massive "skillgaining"-roleplay but who had "so much advantages"
but there is no other choice i fear. the wipe is needed if we want all the new and wonderful things in illarion, if we want to make a step into the future of the game. but it will mean for the old players that they will lose everything for what they played the last two or three years. i mean, we spent two years of our live to illarion. and than it will be wiped out and unimportant in just a few seconds, thats sad.
so don't be sad or angry about the wipe, young players. believe me, the old ones will have imore reasond to be dissapointed and depressive. they don't just lose a month of work, they llose more.
I will see how it will work with my Galim in the new client after the wipe, if i can continue with him or not. before i didn'T test it, i can't decide.
There is no point in "being fair": It is technically necessary.Galim wrote: oh yes, that is fair for players like me.
Furthermore, yes, it IS fair. Fairness is not a matter of one person, it is some global thing. When you started with Galim, you gained your skills 10 times faster (TEN TIMES!) than people who start their characters now. Fair? I guess not -- but it was YOUR advantage. When did you complain about that? Did you ask us to cut your skills? No.
This is rather strange: I read a thread that says that Illarion is so unique among online-RPGs because the main emphasis is on RP, not on skills. You seem to suggest that it's the other way around: Skills are everything, as long as you gain them fast enough. You are interested in playing that game because you want to have as high skills as possible -- the fun PLAYING that game, developing a character etc. does not count by any means.
Your point of view is what others would call "egoistic" and you don't even seem to notice it. We worked for month to bring great changes which will offer possibilities you wouldn't even dare to dream of, but all that counts is that your smithing skill is above 90? That you have 600 gold ingots?
This game is in development and we try to develop it. The time you spent on developing your character is not lost. Take mountain climbing as an example (I know that you probably are not very deep into sportive activities, but anyway):
You do not climb a mountain and stay up there forever, you didn't go there to be there (just for a little moment). You went there to experience something nice during the climbing, maybe you took your skis with you and can ski down in excellent powder snow! And once you are down you don't complain that you wasted your time because you already were on the bottom of the mountain some hours ago: It was the climbing and the skiing that you did it for! The fresh air you breathed, the views you had on the other mountains, the sun, the snow, enjoying nature. You didn't even think about staying on top of the mountain forever!
It's the same in Illarion: It's the way that makes the whole fun, not staying on the top.
We have no "winner" here.
Take, as another example, an actor: why would an actor decide to play one role forever and never stop a movie (or series or whatever)?
Maybe you should reconsider your attitude towards Illarion and roleplaying in general.
Martin
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Adano Eles
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There is roleplay and roleplay. Some is dependent on the actual skill of the character, playing a master smith who has no technical backup is just silly as if it really comes to the point where you need to prove your claim and you don't have the skill to do so then you'll stand there as a complete moron.
However, if you perfectly played a character learning to smith from the ground on, involving the skill development in your roleplay then you have every right to be known as a master smith among the people of Illarion.
Now loosing this skill does mean a major intrusion into the roleplay of this special char as he can no longer back his claims.
This has nothing to do with skill oriented playing.
But you're right, it is a technical neccisity and you can't be fair towards anyone. If there would always be a way to make everyone happy the world would be a way better place.
However, if you perfectly played a character learning to smith from the ground on, involving the skill development in your roleplay then you have every right to be known as a master smith among the people of Illarion.
Now loosing this skill does mean a major intrusion into the roleplay of this special char as he can no longer back his claims.
This has nothing to do with skill oriented playing.
But you're right, it is a technical neccisity and you can't be fair towards anyone. If there would always be a way to make everyone happy the world would be a way better place.
Last edited by Adano Eles on Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Galim
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I think you misunderstood me a little bit.
1) I wrote that I know that the wipe is necessary. I don'Tt wanted to say that it is unfair from you to make a wipe. I wrote that with the "unfair" as an answer on a sentence before where someone wrote that it would be unfair to let the skills or basicskills to the old players who had it more easier to get them. I just wanted to show that it is not "unfair" to let them by all old players. And as far as I know the harder skillgaining system came before i went very high in my skill. the last half of the skills i got under the ten times difficulter system.
2)
With the skills, there you missunderstood me again, martin. I said that i needed long for my actual skills BECAUSE I prefer roleplay and sitting at campfire instead of many hours in a mine or a smithery. Do you think I would have roleplayed 6 month before i was able to smith a platemail when just skills and the speed to get them are important for me? No. But because I roleplayed more, because i earned the skills on the long and hard way it is more difficult for me to lose them.
of course roleplay is the most importand aspect of the game, but it is not the only one. skills are a part too, even if you may think different. skills are a help for your roleplay. it is a different if skills mean everything, or if you prefer roleplay and just accept that skills are important too, after the roleplay.
Damn, my character have developed. Form a simple smith and dwarf to the priest of the dwarventown. my character found a woman and was part of alot of roleplay. you can ask others if you don't believe me, but i am one of the guys who are really alot in roleplay, and not just skillgaining.
Again, I respect your hard work, i am happy that the changes come, and i accept that a wipe is needed, like i wrote before. i never said that the wipe is unnecessary and unfair, that your work is not important.
by the side, i have just 200 ingots, or even less, as far as i can remember.
oh, and you can't compare that all with climbing, because the climbing is not boreing and souldestroying like the skillgaining in illarion. it is NOT fun to stand for hours alone in a mine and just look at the same picture and to leftclick a stone for thousands of times...bah, that is really terrible, after half an hour i get sick of that.
so you are the opinion it was for this standing in the mine for hours, missing every rp, getting sick of that souldestroying actions for what we are doing it? when was the last time you build up a character on the normal way until he reached something? when did you really play this game as a player the last time for more than a few hours?
when was the last time you dried to get better with a character in something? perhaps you should try it once again, and than you may say again that it was the standing in the mine for which you did everything.
of course it was fun to see how you got better in something, damn, i remember the day when i was able to smith a chainmail for the first time. was a damn happy day. but to do that all again is not the same. its not like climbing on a mountain. you can't compare the feeling with that, sorry. hard to explain and describe it, but it is so.
The skillgaining can be compared more with a long, long walk over an emtpy area. nothing to do, nothing to see. the world is flat and boring. and all you have to do is tto hear the same song over and over again for weeks until you reach your goal. and once you reached it, a wonderful place, or something other, you have to start again with that boring walk, without fun, adventures or anything else. just you, the emtpy world and that silly song which plays over and over again. yes, i am sure the way to the wonderful place is there the real fun...
p.s. sorry for my bad english, i am in a hurry
by the way:
oh, and i am really dissapointed that you have such a wrong view of me and my motivations, really. that shows me that you know me not even a little bit. And that you didn't read my posting thorough too. you just read some sentences and immediately wrote such a wrong view of me and my motivations.
Your answer shows me that i am for you just a player who has interest in skills, perhaps even a powergamer. perhaps you even think even that i am a bad roleplayer. that shows me your answer, or let me think that you have that opinion of me and my roleplay. But that is no wonder, that you think perhaps this way. you don't play the game very often, as far as i remember and know.
P.S. Thank you Adano, you describe it perfectly. The part to be a mastersmith IS roleplay background of Galim. He is wellknown as a mastersmith, he has earned a reputation in his time on the isle. I roleplay hard for that reputation, and i didn't power up my skills in a month. But that is something which can know just the peoples who play or played the game and met or heard of galim ingame, well.
1) I wrote that I know that the wipe is necessary. I don'Tt wanted to say that it is unfair from you to make a wipe. I wrote that with the "unfair" as an answer on a sentence before where someone wrote that it would be unfair to let the skills or basicskills to the old players who had it more easier to get them. I just wanted to show that it is not "unfair" to let them by all old players. And as far as I know the harder skillgaining system came before i went very high in my skill. the last half of the skills i got under the ten times difficulter system.
2)
Skills are everything, as long as you gain them fast enough. You are interested in playing that game because you want to have as high skills as possible -- the fun PLAYING that game, developing a character etc. does not count by any means.
With the skills, there you missunderstood me again, martin. I said that i needed long for my actual skills BECAUSE I prefer roleplay and sitting at campfire instead of many hours in a mine or a smithery. Do you think I would have roleplayed 6 month before i was able to smith a platemail when just skills and the speed to get them are important for me? No. But because I roleplayed more, because i earned the skills on the long and hard way it is more difficult for me to lose them.
of course roleplay is the most importand aspect of the game, but it is not the only one. skills are a part too, even if you may think different. skills are a help for your roleplay. it is a different if skills mean everything, or if you prefer roleplay and just accept that skills are important too, after the roleplay.
Damn, my character have developed. Form a simple smith and dwarf to the priest of the dwarventown. my character found a woman and was part of alot of roleplay. you can ask others if you don't believe me, but i am one of the guys who are really alot in roleplay, and not just skillgaining.
Again, I respect your hard work, i am happy that the changes come, and i accept that a wipe is needed, like i wrote before. i never said that the wipe is unnecessary and unfair, that your work is not important.
by the side, i have just 200 ingots, or even less, as far as i can remember.
oh, and you can't compare that all with climbing, because the climbing is not boreing and souldestroying like the skillgaining in illarion. it is NOT fun to stand for hours alone in a mine and just look at the same picture and to leftclick a stone for thousands of times...bah, that is really terrible, after half an hour i get sick of that.
so you are the opinion it was for this standing in the mine for hours, missing every rp, getting sick of that souldestroying actions for what we are doing it? when was the last time you build up a character on the normal way until he reached something? when did you really play this game as a player the last time for more than a few hours?
when was the last time you dried to get better with a character in something? perhaps you should try it once again, and than you may say again that it was the standing in the mine for which you did everything.
of course it was fun to see how you got better in something, damn, i remember the day when i was able to smith a chainmail for the first time. was a damn happy day. but to do that all again is not the same. its not like climbing on a mountain. you can't compare the feeling with that, sorry. hard to explain and describe it, but it is so.
The skillgaining can be compared more with a long, long walk over an emtpy area. nothing to do, nothing to see. the world is flat and boring. and all you have to do is tto hear the same song over and over again for weeks until you reach your goal. and once you reached it, a wonderful place, or something other, you have to start again with that boring walk, without fun, adventures or anything else. just you, the emtpy world and that silly song which plays over and over again. yes, i am sure the way to the wonderful place is there the real fun...
p.s. sorry for my bad english, i am in a hurry
by the way:
That was somehow mean(I know that you probably are not very deep into sportive activities, but anyway)
oh, and i am really dissapointed that you have such a wrong view of me and my motivations, really. that shows me that you know me not even a little bit. And that you didn't read my posting thorough too. you just read some sentences and immediately wrote such a wrong view of me and my motivations.
Your answer shows me that i am for you just a player who has interest in skills, perhaps even a powergamer. perhaps you even think even that i am a bad roleplayer. that shows me your answer, or let me think that you have that opinion of me and my roleplay. But that is no wonder, that you think perhaps this way. you don't play the game very often, as far as i remember and know.
P.S. Thank you Adano, you describe it perfectly. The part to be a mastersmith IS roleplay background of Galim. He is wellknown as a mastersmith, he has earned a reputation in his time on the isle. I roleplay hard for that reputation, and i didn't power up my skills in a month. But that is something which can know just the peoples who play or played the game and met or heard of galim ingame, well.
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Djironnyma
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Ich nehme mir einmal herraus meine Meinung auf Deutsch beizutragen, ich glaube so versteht mich zumindest ein Teil *g*.
Ich sehe den Cahrwipe aus zwei Perspektiven. Meiner eigenden, der als Spieler von Djironnyma und der einfach nur als Spieler von Illarion.
Als Spieler von Djironnyma kann ich Galim sehr gut verstehen. Mir geht es ähnlich. Ich spiele einen Magielehrer, den führenden Vertreter einer eigenden größtenteils geheimen Schule der Magie. Er hat seine Schüler, Mitstreiter und Feinde. Was mir an ihm spaß am Spiel bereitet ist keinesfalls seine hohen Magicskills. Trotzdem könnte ich ihn skillos nicht spielen. Er könnte seinen Schülern nichts beibirngen und seine Feinde hätten ihn innerhalb weniger tage getötet. Nun mögen manche wiedersprechen, auch seine Feinde hätten keine Skills mehr. Richtig, aber im gegensatz zu denen habe ich nicht mehr die Zeit mir neue anzutrainieren. Es sieht desshalb für viele ältere Spieler so aus das ihre Chars durch den Charwipe vermutlich unspielbar werden. Schade.
Als Spieler von Illarion, fehrn von meinem Charakter und dem Fakt das ich diesem mag find ich den Charwipe eine tolle Sache. Abgesehen davon, das er wohl technisch notwendig ist schaft er endlich Skillgleichheit, er räumt damit auf das es spieler gibt, die zwei Jahre nicht spielten, plötzlich auftauchen und aufgrund ihrer alten Skills im prinzip alles können, besser als jeder. Außerdem werden die eingerosteten IG-Sozialstrukturen wohl endlich aufgebrochen. Es wird (zumindest für eine ganze Weile) hoffentlich keine Chars geben die unmengen an IG-Macht besitzen, aber nurnoch selten spielen, gerade oft genug diese macht durch ihre alten Skills und scheinbar unerschöpflichen alten Depotansammlungen zu schützen. Ich finde dergleichen ein Ding der unmöglichkeit, dass noch immer viele IG wichtige entscheidungen von Chars getroffen werden die kaum noch spielen. Von diesem standpunkt finde ich den Charwipe, wie gesagt eine tolle sache, gleiche Bedingungen für alle und keine "alten Patriezier".
In dem Zusammenhang habe ich noch eine Frage, es mag sein das diese schon beantwortet wurde, dann wahrscheinlich jedoch nur auf Englisch, wodurch ich sie dann wohl nicht verstanden habe. Ich würde doch sehr gerne wissen, ob ig einfach so getan wird als wär ncihts oder ob man eine größe Quest(o.ä.) abwickeln wird die erklärt warum alle plötzlich unfähig sind.
Ich sehe den Cahrwipe aus zwei Perspektiven. Meiner eigenden, der als Spieler von Djironnyma und der einfach nur als Spieler von Illarion.
Als Spieler von Djironnyma kann ich Galim sehr gut verstehen. Mir geht es ähnlich. Ich spiele einen Magielehrer, den führenden Vertreter einer eigenden größtenteils geheimen Schule der Magie. Er hat seine Schüler, Mitstreiter und Feinde. Was mir an ihm spaß am Spiel bereitet ist keinesfalls seine hohen Magicskills. Trotzdem könnte ich ihn skillos nicht spielen. Er könnte seinen Schülern nichts beibirngen und seine Feinde hätten ihn innerhalb weniger tage getötet. Nun mögen manche wiedersprechen, auch seine Feinde hätten keine Skills mehr. Richtig, aber im gegensatz zu denen habe ich nicht mehr die Zeit mir neue anzutrainieren. Es sieht desshalb für viele ältere Spieler so aus das ihre Chars durch den Charwipe vermutlich unspielbar werden. Schade.
Als Spieler von Illarion, fehrn von meinem Charakter und dem Fakt das ich diesem mag find ich den Charwipe eine tolle Sache. Abgesehen davon, das er wohl technisch notwendig ist schaft er endlich Skillgleichheit, er räumt damit auf das es spieler gibt, die zwei Jahre nicht spielten, plötzlich auftauchen und aufgrund ihrer alten Skills im prinzip alles können, besser als jeder. Außerdem werden die eingerosteten IG-Sozialstrukturen wohl endlich aufgebrochen. Es wird (zumindest für eine ganze Weile) hoffentlich keine Chars geben die unmengen an IG-Macht besitzen, aber nurnoch selten spielen, gerade oft genug diese macht durch ihre alten Skills und scheinbar unerschöpflichen alten Depotansammlungen zu schützen. Ich finde dergleichen ein Ding der unmöglichkeit, dass noch immer viele IG wichtige entscheidungen von Chars getroffen werden die kaum noch spielen. Von diesem standpunkt finde ich den Charwipe, wie gesagt eine tolle sache, gleiche Bedingungen für alle und keine "alten Patriezier".
In dem Zusammenhang habe ich noch eine Frage, es mag sein das diese schon beantwortet wurde, dann wahrscheinlich jedoch nur auf Englisch, wodurch ich sie dann wohl nicht verstanden habe. Ich würde doch sehr gerne wissen, ob ig einfach so getan wird als wär ncihts oder ob man eine größe Quest(o.ä.) abwickeln wird die erklärt warum alle plötzlich unfähig sind.
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Galim
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P.S.
Sometimes I have here the feeling that you just have to write a "skill is not unimportant" statement to be classified from many peoples als bad roleplayer or powergamer. it is like with israel and their politics. you just have to say that you aren't a fan of the isreal politics to be called an anti-semite. that is really sad.
Sometimes I have here the feeling that you just have to write a "skill is not unimportant" statement to be classified from many peoples als bad roleplayer or powergamer. it is like with israel and their politics. you just have to say that you aren't a fan of the isreal politics to be called an anti-semite. that is really sad.
In this case, you probably are no master smith anymore.Adano Eles wrote:There is roleplay and roleplay. Some is dependent on the actual skill of the character, playing a master smith who has no technical backup is just silly as if it really comes to the point where you need to prove your claim and you don't have the skill to do so then you'll stand there as a complete moron.
I mean -- I am Superman, it's just that I can't fly (without aid), have no laser beams coming out of my eyes, fail to use my radar- and x-ray-devices and can't lift more than some kilos and so on.
So, there are 2 options:
1) You are no master smith anymore
2) You have to play another character
Martin
Yes, I admit I am guilty of that.Galim wrote:And that you didn't read my posting thorough too. you just read some sentences and immediately wrote such a wrong view of me and my motivations.
Anyway, I think we cleared that out now.
Martin
PS.: Skillgain will change probably, it's just that this ain't easy...
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Galim
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@martin
with that statement you say official that it is not possible to continue your usual roleplay, or even a big part of your roleplay, after the wipe. that means there IS a big change and difference in roleplay for many.
by the way, of course it is because of the unimportance of skills for roleplay that some characters in a quest get higher skills from gm's to be able to fullfill the quest, right? if skills are not important so why was it important to push the characters in quests of the past? because they would have no success with their roleplay without that skills.
with that statement you say official that it is not possible to continue your usual roleplay, or even a big part of your roleplay, after the wipe. that means there IS a big change and difference in roleplay for many.
by the way, of course it is because of the unimportance of skills for roleplay that some characters in a quest get higher skills from gm's to be able to fullfill the quest, right? if skills are not important so why was it important to push the characters in quests of the past? because they would have no success with their roleplay without that skills.
Last edited by Galim on Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Diese Frage ist unbeantwortet weil noch nicht entschieden.Djironnyma wrote:In dem Zusammenhang habe ich noch eine Frage, es mag sein das diese schon beantwortet wurde, dann wahrscheinlich jedoch nur auf Englisch, wodurch ich sie dann wohl nicht verstanden habe. Ich würde doch sehr gerne wissen, ob ig einfach so getan wird als wär ncihts oder ob man eine größe Quest(o.ä.) abwickeln wird die erklärt warum alle plötzlich unfähig sind.
Vorschlaege dazu sind aber jederzeit willkommen.
Martin
Of course it will be a big change. I have never claimed something else.Galim wrote:@martin
with that statement you say official that it is not possible to continue your usual roleplay, or even a big part of your roleplay, after the wipe. that means there IS a big change and difference in roleplay for many.
However, your character can still be a priest of XYZ, be member of the guild ABC and be married to HIJ if you want it to be like that.
Martin
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Colden Moor
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Was dann noch die Frage aufwirft , was machen wenn in einem halben Jahr sich wieder jemand beschwert und sagt : Ich hab zu spät angefangen und jetzt keine Möglichkeit mehr der größte stärkste beste zu werden .
Ich hab meinen ältersten Char gerade aufgegeben und ganz neu angefangen . Rein vom RPG macht es rießig Spass neu anzufangen . Was aber das neu lernen von Berufen und antrainieren von Skills ( für Kampf )angeht die ich brauche um ihn halbwegs gut und glaubwürdig zu spielen , da bedauer ich es gemacht zu haben . Und dann sollte es wirklich nochmal von vorne angehen das ganze nochmal zu machen und wieder unzählige Stunden damit zu verbringen alles ein weiteres mal zu lernen , ich würde lange mit mir ringen müßen mir das nochmal anzutun . Nicht das RPG sondern das erlernen und trainieren von Fertigkeiten .
Ich hab meinen ältersten Char gerade aufgegeben und ganz neu angefangen . Rein vom RPG macht es rießig Spass neu anzufangen . Was aber das neu lernen von Berufen und antrainieren von Skills ( für Kampf )angeht die ich brauche um ihn halbwegs gut und glaubwürdig zu spielen , da bedauer ich es gemacht zu haben . Und dann sollte es wirklich nochmal von vorne angehen das ganze nochmal zu machen und wieder unzählige Stunden damit zu verbringen alles ein weiteres mal zu lernen , ich würde lange mit mir ringen müßen mir das nochmal anzutun . Nicht das RPG sondern das erlernen und trainieren von Fertigkeiten .
@Galim
Don't you think it would be wonderfull to experience some new ways of playing? I know you can already do that now, but this time completely free of your other character. Maybe try to learn something new, let's say play an orc. Wonderfull RP would sprout, because you would have new fresh ideas about how to play an orc.
Is it really that important to play a good smith? I mean, Galim can also be played as the good friend of X still, or an enemy of Z. Misjbar for instance, hardly has any skills. Yet people fear him. Just because they follow your RP too.
Ofcourse not all have to do this, but I think it is still interesting to see that people actually would believe Galim is/was the greatest smith around. They would still admire him for that.
Don't you think it would be wonderfull to experience some new ways of playing? I know you can already do that now, but this time completely free of your other character. Maybe try to learn something new, let's say play an orc. Wonderfull RP would sprout, because you would have new fresh ideas about how to play an orc.
Is it really that important to play a good smith? I mean, Galim can also be played as the good friend of X still, or an enemy of Z. Misjbar for instance, hardly has any skills. Yet people fear him. Just because they follow your RP too.
Ofcourse not all have to do this, but I think it is still interesting to see that people actually would believe Galim is/was the greatest smith around. They would still admire him for that.
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John Irenicus
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Das ist meiner Meinung nach eine schwierige Sache, da es einen rein technischen Hintergrund hat. Natürlich könnte man sich eine Geschichte ausdenken, in der irgendein Gott die Bewohner straft und ihnen ihre Fähigkeiten nimmt (aber ihre Erinnerungen an alles andere lässtob ig einfach so getan wird als wär ncihts oder ob man eine größe Quest(o.ä.) abwickeln wird die erklärt warum alle plötzlich unfähig sind.
), wobei das so an den Haaren herbeigezogen aussehen würde, dass man es sich auch gleich sparen könnte.Nach einem Servercrash tun auch alle Chars immer so, als wäre ihre ig Storyline weitergelaufen, erwähnen aber nach Möglichkeit die verlorenen Skills oder Items nicht.
Vielleicht wird sich ja alles wieder so einpendeln, wie es vor dem Wipe war, da die gleichen Leute gleich viel Zeit in das Game investieren und so das Gleichgewicht von Skills und Items erhalten bleibt, nur eben zu Anfang auf 1/5 der vorherigen Situation.
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Galim
- Posts: 1843
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I love Galim too much, I won't give him up. I put too much work and love into him and his role.
No, it is not important to play a good smith, but galims roleplay was the one of a damn good smith. shall i forgot that he was once a mastersmith with high reputation and start to be a tailor?
I have an orc, and i like it to roleplay with him. but i won't give up or change galim totally because of the wipe, i don't want that. it wouldn't be galim anymore.
and galim is no liar, he would never say he is a great smith without the real skill behind it. that would be an insult to irmorom and a shame.
i will have to roleplay that he lost his ability to move his hands rightly, or something like that. that he has the knowledge of a mastersmith but can't hold an hammer anymore. that would be a possibility, but one i won't like much, because it has a bad feeling of a massive "forced rp" for everything.. well, but as iw rote before, i will try it after the wipe, and look what happens. if it won't be able he will die perhaps.
No, it is not important to play a good smith, but galims roleplay was the one of a damn good smith. shall i forgot that he was once a mastersmith with high reputation and start to be a tailor?
I have an orc, and i like it to roleplay with him. but i won't give up or change galim totally because of the wipe, i don't want that. it wouldn't be galim anymore.
and galim is no liar, he would never say he is a great smith without the real skill behind it. that would be an insult to irmorom and a shame.
i will have to roleplay that he lost his ability to move his hands rightly, or something like that. that he has the knowledge of a mastersmith but can't hold an hammer anymore. that would be a possibility, but one i won't like much, because it has a bad feeling of a massive "forced rp" for everything.. well, but as iw rote before, i will try it after the wipe, and look what happens. if it won't be able he will die perhaps.
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Djironnyma
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Ich denke das läst sich kaum vergleichen. Immerhin reden wir hier von einer situation in der jeder ncihts mehr kann und nichts mehr hat (bis auf eine startausrüstung vermutlich).John Irenicus wrote: Nach einem Servercrash tun auch alle Chars immer so, als wäre ihre ig Storyline weitergelaufen, erwähnen aber nach Möglichkeit die verlorenen Skills oder Items nicht.
Und wer redet denn davo, dass man den Chars (und ihren spielern) gleich deutlich macht was geschehen ist? Lasst einen hellen Blitz am Himmel erscheinen, der sie betäubt, als sie aufwachen sind sie mit einmal machtlos. Es muss ja nciht unbedingt gleich erklärt sein warum alle machtlos sind. Aber es sollte halt ig wirklich geschehen, soetwas überspielt unangenehme situationen:
"Wie du kanst keinen plattenpanzer mehr schmiede?"
"Habs halt...öö verlernt..."
"Wie? Wie alle anderen schmiede auch?"
...
Zudem gibt es Illarion ein großes Rätzel, ein Mysterium.... ob das jemals gelöst werden kann/wird/soll wird sich dann schon irgendwann zeigen. Aber allein die spekulationen darum oder hinweise, gerüchte gäben dem spiel sehr viel stoff....
edit: wertet das als vorschlag von meiner seite
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John Irenicus
- Posts: 476
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- Location: far over the sea
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Djironnyma
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Wer sagt denn das die götter es waren? und lass es der meiner ein traum anstatt ein blitz sein.....
im normalfall ist es "billig" wenn du alles durch götter und hach so mächtige magier erklärst, gebe ich dir voll und ganz recht, dies ist aber kein normalfall die sache ist "etwas" größer als die normale quest es kann nunmal nciht einfach so passieren das ein lustiger kobold alle depots leerklaut und gleichzeitig eine unbekannte alge das wasser fegiftet die massenunfähigkeit auslöst..... sowas halte ich für "billig"
da ist es mir doch lieber es ist nicht eindeutig was geschehen ist, es sollte aber klar ig etwas geschehen, nur was geschen ist, diese frage muss ja ig nicht beantwortet werden können
im normalfall ist es "billig" wenn du alles durch götter und hach so mächtige magier erklärst, gebe ich dir voll und ganz recht, dies ist aber kein normalfall die sache ist "etwas" größer als die normale quest es kann nunmal nciht einfach so passieren das ein lustiger kobold alle depots leerklaut und gleichzeitig eine unbekannte alge das wasser fegiftet die massenunfähigkeit auslöst..... sowas halte ich für "billig"
da ist es mir doch lieber es ist nicht eindeutig was geschehen ist, es sollte aber klar ig etwas geschehen, nur was geschen ist, diese frage muss ja ig nicht beantwortet werden können
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Bloodhearte
- Posts: 1169
- Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:03 am
- Location: Yes please.
Galim, although I understand your thoughts on this, it's important to remember that it isn't the outcome of the journey that should be most fun, it should be the journey itself. If the journey (that is, your character developing and interacting) isn't fun for you, then change something to make it more enjoyable.
Personally, I have whined about skills too. Do you have any idea how many characters I've created, that has skills equivalent to every newbie whelp?
Only one of my characters was, for example, a really strong fighter, but I don't really play him anymore although I have the possibility to.
I think skills are important to back up your role, yes, and it's satisfying when your character can do things that other people can't.
That's why I think it's important to not put all of your stock into one character...or else, you'll get slightly obsessive (probably the wrong word) with him, and really be in for a disappointing crush when something happens to him - like being deleted.
This is especially important to keep in mind when playing a game that has a ways to go before being fully developed. Anything could happen, with or without your consent.
Personally, I have whined about skills too. Do you have any idea how many characters I've created, that has skills equivalent to every newbie whelp?
Only one of my characters was, for example, a really strong fighter, but I don't really play him anymore although I have the possibility to.I think skills are important to back up your role, yes, and it's satisfying when your character can do things that other people can't.
That's why I think it's important to not put all of your stock into one character...or else, you'll get slightly obsessive (probably the wrong word) with him, and really be in for a disappointing crush when something happens to him - like being deleted.
This is especially important to keep in mind when playing a game that has a ways to go before being fully developed. Anything could happen, with or without your consent.
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Estralis Seborian
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Bloodhearte
- Posts: 1169
- Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:03 am
- Location: Yes please.
I think your character could just go into retirement then, and justify his rustiness due to inactivity. He's been around for a while now, it's best to do something before he gets stale.
I mean, what would the point be in smithing any longer? To earn ingots, to earn yet another building that won't be used on the island? In my opinion, it just isn't worth it. I figure Galim could live comfortably with as many ingots as he has right now.
I mean, what would the point be in smithing any longer? To earn ingots, to earn yet another building that won't be used on the island? In my opinion, it just isn't worth it. I figure Galim could live comfortably with as many ingots as he has right now.
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Galim
- Posts: 1843
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he is not that rich, really.
well, galim is a dwarf, and in his best dwarfyears. someone like him dont went into retirement ^^. and he honors irmorom with his work as a smith.
i dont do it for the gold, i dont even smith really much, it is because of the rp. i love it to smith sometimes masterpieces of smithery goods for some special customers for example. alot of roleplay is around that. galim smithed darloks sword, he smithed neons armor and so on. that is why i want to hold him, because that is really fun. that reputation and the roleplay with it. but a reputsation without the skill or ability is not much worth, because sooner or later i have to show what i can..and than it will be a sad moment =(
well, galim is a dwarf, and in his best dwarfyears. someone like him dont went into retirement ^^. and he honors irmorom with his work as a smith.
i dont do it for the gold, i dont even smith really much, it is because of the rp. i love it to smith sometimes masterpieces of smithery goods for some special customers for example. alot of roleplay is around that. galim smithed darloks sword, he smithed neons armor and so on. that is why i want to hold him, because that is really fun. that reputation and the roleplay with it. but a reputsation without the skill or ability is not much worth, because sooner or later i have to show what i can..and than it will be a sad moment =(
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Bloodhearte
- Posts: 1169
- Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:03 am
- Location: Yes please.
Then you have a dilemma - work to get those hard to earn skills back, or do something else...like keep him around for social value maybe, and start a new character to work on? Surely being a dwarf gets boring eventually.
I see what you mean regarding having RP incorporated into his smithing, but I made a mistake of continuing to play a character that grew stale. The peak of Vahkos (or Fortinbris, for you old schoolers), was when he and Darlok summoned Drahken and Ashkatuul and distributed mirrors. Then he hung out at Northerot for a good while, then had nothing else to do after that. He just sat in a cave for a half a year, plotting stuff that couldn't happen, so he had to go.
I see what you mean regarding having RP incorporated into his smithing, but I made a mistake of continuing to play a character that grew stale. The peak of Vahkos (or Fortinbris, for you old schoolers), was when he and Darlok summoned Drahken and Ashkatuul and distributed mirrors. Then he hung out at Northerot for a good while, then had nothing else to do after that. He just sat in a cave for a half a year, plotting stuff that couldn't happen, so he had to go.
This is just some thought that comes into my mind frequently when thinking about Illarion:
What if it just HAPPENS? That's like IRL. It happens and your characters maybe recognize it, maybe they don't. Some will play as if they remember times when they were much better in doing what they try to do, others can't remember that. Others will think about what happened and start developing theories and try to find supporting evidence and try to disprove other theories.
Some won't even believe THAT it happened (because they lost all memory). Some will say "It was god XYZ", others will say: "our water was poisoned!". Others will say: "There was a gigantic flash of light, and as our memory works with light it erased all our memories in a specific region!".
Why should there be some knowledge which noone ever found out but which is widely accepted as "true" because some stupid GM posted it on some board (that no character could ever know)?
Be creative. IRL there is no "outer authority" that tells you WHY a person lost his memory, WHY an earthquake happened or WHY the population of an island died from some desease. You can think about it, you can listen to other people who have theories about it, you can maybe even start creating theories about it yourself. But there is no "superhuman" authority that tells you: "That was because of X!".
Accept it, play it out. Be creative. Take it as a chance, as a source of new RP. Maybe there will be a new guild of "believers" who think that "it" never happened and that it just was a great illusion.
Martin
What if it just HAPPENS? That's like IRL. It happens and your characters maybe recognize it, maybe they don't. Some will play as if they remember times when they were much better in doing what they try to do, others can't remember that. Others will think about what happened and start developing theories and try to find supporting evidence and try to disprove other theories.
Some won't even believe THAT it happened (because they lost all memory). Some will say "It was god XYZ", others will say: "our water was poisoned!". Others will say: "There was a gigantic flash of light, and as our memory works with light it erased all our memories in a specific region!".
Why should there be some knowledge which noone ever found out but which is widely accepted as "true" because some stupid GM posted it on some board (that no character could ever know)?
Be creative. IRL there is no "outer authority" that tells you WHY a person lost his memory, WHY an earthquake happened or WHY the population of an island died from some desease. You can think about it, you can listen to other people who have theories about it, you can maybe even start creating theories about it yourself. But there is no "superhuman" authority that tells you: "That was because of X!".
Accept it, play it out. Be creative. Take it as a chance, as a source of new RP. Maybe there will be a new guild of "believers" who think that "it" never happened and that it just was a great illusion.
Martin
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Djironnyma
- Posts: 3221
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Oh sicher und wenn mein Schüler mich nach der nächsten Rune fragt sag ich auch promt:
"Ach die hab ich eben beim Rauchen alle vergessen, passiert!"
Oder mein Zwerg antwortet wenn man ihn bittet eine axt zu schmieden:
"Arrr neeee lass mal meine Metallallergie kommt wieder durch!"
... Damien? das meinst du nciht ernst oder? Zudem dergleichen bei ALLEN Chars zur SELBEN zeit.... erklärungslos und gänzlich ohne IG-Geschenis fänd ich sowas schlicht und ergreifend lächerlich/hätte den eindruck unsern Questgms sind nun entgültig die Ideen ausgegangen.
"Ach die hab ich eben beim Rauchen alle vergessen, passiert!"
Oder mein Zwerg antwortet wenn man ihn bittet eine axt zu schmieden:
"Arrr neeee lass mal meine Metallallergie kommt wieder durch!"
... Damien? das meinst du nciht ernst oder? Zudem dergleichen bei ALLEN Chars zur SELBEN zeit.... erklärungslos und gänzlich ohne IG-Geschenis fänd ich sowas schlicht und ergreifend lächerlich/hätte den eindruck unsern Questgms sind nun entgültig die Ideen ausgegangen.
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Pendar
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:36 am
- Location: Founding member of H.A.L ~home for abused lichs~http://h.a.l.istheshit.net/
I have purposefully kept my thoughts of character wipes to myself as I feel as a new character I really have little to lose and little right to have an opinion.
I just have one question,
The reason I ask is that as much as loseing one's skills in crafting and such would be an interesting challenge to roleplay.
If for example john continues as captain of the guard but can no longer defend the town or by the same token certain orcs not defend themselves. Then we may as well start a new world. As lets face it Illarions polotical world is largely based on strength of arms. This in turn is what keeps the game exciting in my opinion.
Which ever it happens so be it, I am just curiouse.
I just have one question,
So if i understand this correctly a character who can fight for example will retain some ability above a new character in slashing weapons.Adano Eles wrote:
So we'll basically end with having our old characters and maybe some basic skills, but none of our old items and without being able to recognize people we used to know.
The reason I ask is that as much as loseing one's skills in crafting and such would be an interesting challenge to roleplay.
If for example john continues as captain of the guard but can no longer defend the town or by the same token certain orcs not defend themselves. Then we may as well start a new world. As lets face it Illarions polotical world is largely based on strength of arms. This in turn is what keeps the game exciting in my opinion.
Which ever it happens so be it, I am just curiouse.